Cup with Climate Control Official

[BenR]

I dont have a problem with teh cup at all, fantastic car!

What i do havea problem with is the way its portrayed. As some sooper car. its great, but not some race car for the rd.....its a 172 with bits and bobs missing, weather you think the bobs are neccesary is entirely personal, and the cup is even better (from a pure driving point) off without them.

Anyway, re the approved mods.....Rallart is considerably more organised and larger than R Sport who i think dont think could possibly get it all sorted.

Why blame renault, they are not making the parts, they gave it to another company (like mitsi did ti ralliart) to sort, and they didnt come up with the goods.

Granted, some people might want the authenticity of the logos......but whats wrong with something that is lighter ad cheaper? after all.....the cups all about performance not looks/image isnt it

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by Jonto on 10 May 2003

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 10 May 2003


whats the obcession with these upgrades, you can do better by sourcing the stuff yourself!








Can you say warranty !



Like the lad said above, subaru with there prodrive options etc,there is a niche in the market for dealer approved mods, because people value the warranty, especially if you own a scoob like i did !

Oh, one more thing, ABS is for pussys, learn how to brake, not saying i am the best driver around, far from it infact, but the best mod you could do to your car is learn how to drive it !

Warrenty

 

[Jonto]

well, if you were looking far enough down the round, you would have spotted that the truck could be a potential danger, if he pulled out right in front of you i doubt ABS would have made any difference. On a dry road you can stop a car quicker without ABS than you can with, if you have the correct technique, which i am not saying i have. In the wet there is still not that much difference for a good driver

 

[Jonto]

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 10 May 2003

Quote: Originally posted by Jonto on 10 May 2003

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 10 May 2003


whats the obcession with these upgrades, you can do better by sourcing the stuff yourself!








Can you say warranty !



Like the lad said above, subaru with there prodrive options etc,there is a niche in the market for dealer approved mods, because people value the warranty, especially if you own a scoob like i did !

Oh, one more thing, ABS is for pussys, learn how to brake, not saying i am the best driver around, far from it infact, but the best mod you could do to your car is learn how to drive it !

Warrenty

Does that make my point invalid then ?

I didnt realise it was a spelling test !

 

[BenR]

oops....my mistake.....but point is....

we all knew the things were never going to happen....there wasnt enough effort behind it.

 

[172man]

hmmm ABS must be useless then oh well, another sh*te invention

 

[Jonto]

Cant be bothered to argue with someone wearing blinkers !

 

[Jonto]

Quote: Originally posted by 172man on 10 May 2003


hmmm ABS must be useless then oh well, another sh*te invention

ABS - is a good invention don t get me wrong, but its there to help, well, lessor drivers so to speak !

 

[172man]

suppose you stamp on the peddle drooling and all cus your a demon driver and all

there was a test of the braking ability of a cup and it was lame compared to the std 172 it just kept locking up.

But i suppose youll easily beat it he he ahha

 

[jonnyboy]

I think approved mods are likely to happen in the future. MAx power culture is getting bigger and bigger all the time. With 2 Fast 2 Furious coming out soon as well modifying will be even more mainstream. Renault is a business at the end of the day and the money they could make in aftermarket approved mod (either by endorsement or manufacturing themselves) is Huuuuuge. I love modified cars, all my past cars have been lowewed and had big wheels etc, but I will not do anything to my new 172 because I value the warranty and dont want anything to jepordise it. If Renault did an approved coilover kit I would get it done tomorrow even if it did cost more.

Trust me Approved mods are the future. Especially when there are so many cowboys in the aftermarket industry LIKE UNICAR OF LEEDS for example (total brainless idiots).

 

[Jim172CUP]

what hes saying is that ABS wont lock your wheels up so its safe for heavy braking. But you can stop quicker with normal brakes as long as you dont lock them up.

 

[172man]

how you not lock them up then..

do that stamping technique which is easy?

 

[Cup172]

Quote: Originally posted by jonnyboy on 10 May 2003



I think approved mods are likely to happen in the future. MAx power culture is getting bigger and bigger all the time. With 2 Fast 2 Furious coming out soon as well modifying will be even more mainstream. Renault is a business at the end of the day and the money they could make in aftermarket approved mod (either by endorsement or manufacturing themselves) is Huuuuuge. I love modified cars, all my past cars have been lowewed and had big wheels etc, but I will not do anything to my new 172 because I value the warranty and dont want anything to jepordise it. If Renault did an approved coilover kit I would get it done tomorrow even if it did cost more.

Trust me Approved mods are the future. Especially when there are so many cowboys in the aftermarket industry LIKE UNICAR OF LEEDS for example (total brainless idiots).

Thats my point my Lancer is 12 years old and its an import, but when you pay for a new car with 3 years Warranty and being a Renault your likley to use it, you will do your best to keep it. I have a mate you works in a small unit by himself worked for Audi etc... trust him more than Renault and at half the cost, but need the Renualt stamp to maintain the warranty, even though most likley in worst state than before it went it. Does any one know of a garage I can trust in the Nottingham area, heard good things about the dealer in Leicester.

Come on Renault gives us something close to Prodrive and give us the goodies!!!!!!!!!

BenR, if someone offered me a 911 GT3 I wont turn around and go sorry mate going keep my Cup, but for the price I paid got no complaints.

 

[RSTDL]

Next cliosport survey should be "On average how many times do you use your air-con button? Never, once or once every 3 years.........." What are we women? Driving aint about how many buttons u have to press and how loud your bass box is - (adds to the overall pleasure of course but also causes lapses in concentration) IMHO the cup should stay without options which are standard in the 172 - simple, coz a cup with aircon/abs and zenons etc is a 172! And at the end of the day its all about Renault making money the best way they can.

 

[telford_mike]

Quote: Originally posted by CUPSIZE? on 13 May 2003

Next cliosport survey should be "On average how many times do you use your air-con button? Never, once or once every 3 years.........."

You dont have to push a button - most people just leave it on all the time - its climate control - you just tell it what temperature you want and let the machine get on with it.

 

[TimO172]

The simple fact is that Renault put a fair bit of moeny into the development of the Cup, it isnt a 172 with bit and bobs missing, the Cup has different suspesnion, wheels and tyres, not to mention the "stuff thats missing", after market tuners have made no effort to differeniate between the Cup and the 172, the old old, "itll fit mate" routine is madenss, I havent read one bad review of the Cup so why would you risk f**king it up with some lowering springs designed for a normal 172, Renault obviously gave R Sprt the nod for the mods, even if they are not official, I can say one thing that I will be waiting for them, despite being ableto surce the stuff from the aftermarket boys. I already have the ECU and I think it is fabulous, the simple fact is that only fits the Cup shows there are fundamental differences between the cars, for christ sake, my cup has cained my old cas 1/4 mile with 3000 miles on the clock and an ECU, lords knows how fast its going to be in the futre!!

Tim

 

[Jas]

on the Mk1 172 the air con is a button (not as fancy as the Mk2!), but even in the S. east, where, believe it or not we do get a fair amount of hot days each year, the air con is used to and from work where your slowly moving in a line of traffic. Im happy to sacrifice a bit of petrol (and no speed as Im going slowly anyway) for keeping cool. Im a firm believer in choice, and I think an air con choice is better than no choice. And while Im slowly cruising to work, I like a bit of bass to my music!

 

[RobFenn]

Jonto youre narrow minded, fact is you cant account for other drivers on the road, whether youre gods gift to driving or not. ABS should be standard fit on every single car in the country unless its a caterham, radical etc. You dont have to activate ABS so if you dont it aint there! And the arguement for it being to save weight, ABS generally weighs about 15kg! Renault should be making it an option for the Cup, not Climate Control which is a luxury item, against the Cups ethics.

-Rob

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by TimO172 on 13 May 2003


The simple fact is that Renault put a fair bit of moeny into the development of the Cup, it isnt a 172 with bit and bobs missing, the Cup has different suspesnion, wheels and tyres, not to mention the "stuff thats missing", after market tuners have made no effort to differeniate between the Cup and the 172, the old old, "itll fit mate" routine is madenss, I havent read one bad review of the Cup so why would you risk f**king it up with some lowering springs designed for a normal 172, Renault obviously gave R Sprt the nod for the mods, even if they are not official, I can say one thing that I will be waiting for them, despite being ableto surce the stuff from the aftermarket boys. I already have the ECU and I think it is fabulous, the simple fact is that only fits the Cup shows there are fundamental differences between the cars, for christ sake, my cup has cained my old cas 1/4 mile with 3000 miles on the clock and an ECU, lords knows how fast its going to be in the futre!!

Tim

huh!!!???

i think your getting a bit carried away.

Diff suspension, tyres? Explain.......

Granted the wheels are diff, but how much of a performance increasing factor are they!

The ecu is diff because it doesnt have climate control, nor a need to control ABS or any auto features. Not because the engine runs diff........oh, but the colour must affect it right.

and if they make the option of an aircon available, your (CUPSIZE) a big enough boy to say no thinks if you dont want it.

 

[TimO172]

The tyres are evidently bespoke to the Cup, harder compound tyre wall. The suspension runs more caster angle in comparison to the normal 172, the springs rates are different to the normal 172. Lets be honest Renault lied about the weight of the mk2 172, they often got questioned in the press about the questionable performance of the MK2 in comparsion to the MK1. I have spoken to many of the recommended aftermarket tuners, who have said quite suprisingly that to improve the Cup would be a formidable task. Thats why I seem to beleive that R Sport have invested considerable time and expertiseinto their products. I dont want to sound like I am slating the Mk2 but the Cup is what the MK2 should have been in the first place. Simple.

 

[RSTDL]

I did about 6 months ago when I bought the cup mate - I choose the cup over a 172 Mk2 because

A/ it was quicker

B/ is the last incarnation of the 172

C/ had nicer wheels

D/had sh*te seats that can be ripped out for better ones

E/ had no useless toy sthat i wouldnt use anyway

F/had a nicer colour

G/was loads cheaper

H/ because i prefered it

and 100,000 other reasons too...................

 

[telford_mike]

Quote: Originally posted by TimO172 on 13 May 2003

the Cup is what the MK2 should have been in the first place. Simple.

Well yes Im sure some peoples requirements of a car would back that up. But if the Mk2 had been the same spec as the Cup I wouldnt have bought one - cant live without aircon and ABS - lots of motorway driving for work & I dont need to be too sweaty when I get where Im going.

I may have bought a Cup if these had been options though as I love the wheels and the colour. The performance difference doesnt make the slightest difference on the road, and it wont mean I have any less fun at York RWYB either.

Doesnt it just boil down to Renault giving us a choice?

 

[KDF]

I had the aircon on today, actually the climate control automatically ativated it to keep me at my ideal 20 degree temprature.. ahh lovely..

agreed on the wheels and colour.. its nice, also agree on the performance difference being negligable for the amount of toys that your loosing.

Not to mention the most important one.. the one that made me decide right there an then.. NO ABS !!!

 

[jonnyboy]

the problem with a cup is that youve all got the same colour and unfortunately metallic blue is last years colur

 

[KDF]

ye lol Cup blue is the new 172 Silver hehe.. (and I have a silver 172)

 

[steveV6]

Cant see the point in the cup myself and thats not just my opinion, as i found out at the Highbeach meet the other weekend. If your going trackdaying in it, every weekend, then fair enough, but how many of you guys (and girls) trackday your cups, be honest! I think the main reason behind Renault introducing the cup was purley financial. People can now afford a 172, all be it with some toys missing. Remember, Civic type Rs and Cooper Ss are in normal 172 teritory, so how do i remain at the top of the pile, i know what ill do, ill make a cheeper car, thatll do the job. My opinion obviously but let ask Jeremy Townsend. Why has he got a cup and a 172, one for the track and one for his pampered ride to the office maybe??? And if that is the case why didnt he just buy a V6 and be done with it!!

 

[TimO172]

Dont understand where you are coming from, I think the trouble here is that so many people use there cars for different uses. The cup is an uncompromised, cheap performace car. It s purpose was to allow Renault to rally it, for people to be able to buy a car capable of serious pace. Look back at the Evo article around Bedfored Autodrome, the cup was quicker than the V6 the 172 and beaten only by the Cup Race Car. I think Renault saw the market where cars like the 106 Rallye left off and saw that the MK2 172 was twindling in terms of the pace set by the new super hatches CTR etc. Fine if people say that its just got bits missing, but at the end of the day the cup is the fastest Clio hatchback ever made, (MK2 V6 exlcuded) maybe v6(not sure) plus I go tmine for 11,200. The Cup has taken over from the 172 as sales have shown, hot hatch buyers want cheap thrills and thats delivered by the bucket load in the Cup. I think if many of the 172 MK2 owners (not all of them) had had a choice they probably would have gone Cup but are just scared to admit it!!

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by TimO172 on 13 May 2003

The tyres are evidently bespoke to the Cup, harder compound tyre wall. The suspension runs more caster angle in comparison to the normal 172, the springs rates are different to the normal 172.

you got any proof of this.....

can i have the oval plate number for a cup to compare please?

 

[TimO172]

Sometimes I wonder, why ever magazine, every programme, every member on the is forum who has a Cup who says how good they are could be wrong. I am sorry Ben but to start to question the stats and spec for a car you must have a screw loose.

PS Did you question the fact that your MK2 172 was approx 70 Kg heavier than the MK1, or did that pass you by...I tell you what tho, I wont sleep tonight not knowing whether or not Renault were lieing about the comound of those tyres...LOL

Cups Rock

 

[steveV6]

We will have to agree to disagree. I think most 172 owners are happy with there choice and wouldnt be bothered about the cups little extra performance and handling in favour of the 172s extras. I still stand by my original statement that the cup was introduced to boost renault sales in this class which evidently it has, but im sure thats mainly because of its pricing stratagey and not the cups inharnsed performance merits. You (TimO172) even admit yourself what a good deal you got on your own cup. Of course as i originally stated this is only my opinion, but still begs the question, why did Mr Townsend buy both! Is it because he DOES use one for track and one for commuting? I would love to know.

 

[BenR]

Whats the point, the cup isnt as uncompramising as you think...its still a soft rd car!

If you wanta 172, get one, if you want a Cup, get one.....

It still wont make any diff when a 172 get past you on the track, its a diff that can be made up by a better driver.

Its not ferrari/lada differences.

 

[TimO172]

I am not saying that 172 MK2 owners are unhappy, I am saying that the Cup offers a more performance variant of an already good car. Its like the RS Evos for example. To say that the Cup is a track day car is a little far streched it cops perfectly well with daily commutes and long journeys, I cant see why apart from aircon that the 172 mk2 would be any better on a long journey!!

 

[BenR]

I thougth you said the 172 had diff sring rates, diff tyres, and less castor which put together would make a far more comfortable motorway drive would it not.

And the diff between and evo and an evo RS is that the RS actualy makes more power!

 

[TimO172]

Ben R. Of course it is still a soft road car, but to me paying more money for a slower car is ludicirous, the MK2 172 made dyanmic improvments over the MK1 but the MK1s would leave them for dead. Look at the current crop of hot hatches, the Cup is a breath of fresh air from the old school days, in the future will people look back and saying by gingo the 172s were good, or will they say yeah they were good but those Cups were bloody quick and fuggin cheap, what was crowned the best variant of the 306, the Rallye, the 106, the rallye. The Clio, the Cup.

 

[KDF]

aircon

climate control

abs !!!!!

thicker glass including a heat reflective sound deadning front windscreen.

Comfier seats (with lumbar adjustments)

softer on the bumps (although not by much)

and loads of other reasons.

 

[steveV6]

Eerrrr, ABS, multiplay CD, a proper spare wheel, rear head rests, oh yes and that all important climite control!! Maybe its just me but to loose these extras seems like a step backwards. If they made a lightweight V6 i would still have the one with all the toys.

 

[TimO172]

Ben, yeah the evos make more power but the Cups make more power, I have been told by many a tuning company that the Cups make a fair bit more than the std 172s. You know this yourself. If a Cup and a 172 did the same journey do you think the guy in the 172 would get out and go, christ, feel sorry for the guy in the cup. Doubt it!!

 

[TimO172]

Each to ones own, I am suprised....968 Club Sport, Elises, Integra R (new race versions), 106 Rallye, 306 Rallye, Evo RS, all road cars but all a bit special.

New V6 Cup good idea, maybe it will happen!!

 

[BenR]

Lol....why would he say he feels sorry, unless its 37 deg C like it in in HK and traffic can last stationary for hrs at a time.....then....as they peel themselves off the seat ill say it.

We are not sellign teh cup in HK WITHOUT aircon, simply because a car in HK with no aircon DOES NOT SELL....even elises have aircon.

im still waiting for info on the suspension, or at least a oval plate number so i can verify it myself.

As for the engine.....hmm.....same engine....diff power....please, carry on. Maybe the gearbox on the cup is more efficient, or the engine is better tuned! or maybe it doesnt have a sodding compressor on it! lol

 

[tumbleweed]

This cup / 172 debate has been going for ages. I bought the 172 because i wanted decent seats, xenon headlights and climate control which i use daily...it was hot a couple of weeks ago, I was in a traffic jam , outside was in the 70s and inside was a cool 16 degrees, I use the aircon/climate control often, not once every three years.

Yes the cup is .3 seconds quicker to 60...it doesnt bother me because on the flip side of the coin I will maybe buy and fit the cup mods to my 172, best of both worlds. Race wise I have been lucky to race 4 cups on the roads....won two and lost two....Honda CTRs raced 3 lost 1, won 1 and draw on the third.

The problem isnt the 172/cups it is the attitude of the drivers...Cup drivers are laughable they think they are invisible urban worriers driving super cars...half the time it is down to driver ability and nerve.