Custom remap, what's it all about ?

[Fastchip]

Custom remap, what can be gained ?

A lot of people have asked me this question lately. To give you an idea what can be achieved on a standard (no mods) Clio 2 RS see the below comparison chart.

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1YTYBA

All 3 cars are standard ph2 CB15's and are tested on the same dyno, under the same conditions, same day. The most powerful RS (101 kW) runs a custom RSTuner remap. To be honest, the car with the custom remap has seen a lot of WOT action ;-), and I suspect the other weaker cars not so much. So peak performance between the cars may be a little closer than the graph is showing. However this doesn't apply to the midrange torque difference, which gets you moving in the first place.
NOTE: Actual numbers depend on fuel quality, barometric pressure and temperature.
What matters is the torque difference between these cars.

Custom remap, do I need it ?

if your RS doesn't see >6k on a daily basis, NO
if you think your RS is already extremely fast and you're saving up for a G-suit as we speak, NO
if you think instant throttle response might hurt you, NO
if you think JC gearboxes are known to disintegrate just by looking at it, NO.

if you installed cams,YES
if you want to get the most out of your mods and engine, regardless, YES
if you need to get out more during the summer time,YES

Custom remap, prerequisites ?

Laptop / RSTuner
2nd or 3rd gear wide open throttle data loggings from 2.5k – 7k rpm
engine under normal operating conditions, normal inlet air temperature and normal coolant temperature
Tank filled with a fuel grade you'll be using from then on
ECU not operating in degraded mode, meaning free of any fault codes

Usually it takes about 4-8 calibration (map) updates to get it spot on.
The actual data logging is really not difficult to do, but it is your responsibility to make usable data logs for me to work with.
I'm already running a remap, will I benefit from a custom mapping ?
YES, always. How much, also depends on the mods you have done. Some mods actually decrease power in some areas. That said, I cannot predict how much the gain on your car will be. Simply think of a custom map as ' icing on the cake'.

Video Clio dyno start at 3:13 min.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy1nLoiUtYQ

Thanks to Jamie for making the comparison chart and using his heavy right foot extensively...

 

[Toxic#66]

What about LC-1 Wideband and O2 Sensor ?
Is it a necessity when thinking of getting the most of the car ?
In what way logs from it can improve a custom remap ??

 

[skini]

^^^I wanna know that too

 

[Fastchip]

What about LC-1 Wideband and O2 Sensor ?
Is it a necessity when thinking of getting the most of the car ?
In what way logs from it can improve a custom remap ??

As you might have guessed, wideband sensor feedback allows for more accurate fuel trimming. Recommended with cams or headwork which both change the engine's VE a fair bit.

 

[Barron]

how easy is it to log the data? and what do you have to do to log the date?

thanks
carl

 

[Mase]

Hi fellas -just lobbed in as Henk mentioned he posted my dyno results and pointed me to the site.

Re Data logging (LD) - it is very very simple and enormously educational. It's roughly 5 mouse clicks to a saved data log file.

The process of logging is simple. Henk sends you a base map via e-mail which you upload (easy). You then stretch the 'wee beasties' legs in 3rd gear to 7K rpm WOT. Save the file. Do this a few times. Send to Henk. The file contains all the necessary data that a live mapper would gain mapping on a dyno..but better..on a road. He works the data, makes new map..sends back. Repeat process. You do this approx 3-7 times until you have a highly customised mapping for your car.

Aside form this excellent result, the data logger becomes your friend. You can measure easily all parameters so when you do 'dick' with your car..as we do...you can see the effect..positive or negative. You can also read and erase ECU error codes. You can clearly diagnose faulty sensors and other issues free of charge.

Aside from this exceptional feature..you can also create your own dyno logs and save them for later ogling. There is a specific tab (Performance Analyser) in the software that gets you to this feature. Type in your cars entire mass including you + fluids..find a straight,flat road with no wind..go WOT in 3rd and she records Torque & Pwr at the wheels over the RPM range creating a standard style dyno chart. I am pleased to say that what I recorded using the RStuner is very close to what the dyno displayed ~<> 1-2 kw. This feature too is very easy to use. You need to find a safe place to do this consistently. I have a spot where I alwys test so it's consistent and accurate.

Here's a link to my dyno run on the data logger (recorded on my laptop using the RSTuner vehicle interface and software):
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1Qyz_S

Here's a link to an example of the Performance Analyser (again on the lappy)
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1Pmyf9

Here's a link to my actual Dyno chart on the day.
http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1Q0zn9

I am very happy with the result. Of note is the big long pwr platue that shows up both in the dyno and the PA from the RSTuner. This coupled with the fat mid range makes for a fast Clio. I have managed consistent 0-100 k times of 6.5 - 6.7 secs measured on the RSTuner with a bog standard RSC (remap + panel filter only).

Here's an example of a 0-100 run:

My fuel usage has gone up maybe 0.2 ltr / 100 k's and the car drives very well (better than original map) under general usage. If you mod the car later..then contact henk..exchange files..sorted! Anyway enough said. Get one if you like engaging with your car Best value out there for RSC's for this sort of thing..you'll be stuffed finding better. Think about it ;-)

Cheers all,

Mase

 

[Turner]

very good read that and interesting

 

[Mase]

I can't recommend the RSTuner enough. You do need to make an effort but for most of us this is no problem as we like to work with our cars and personalise the experience. Sure you can (in the UK) get a range of remaps done but there are some draw backs - cost is considerably more (factors of 3 or more), you get a (one) remap but you don't 'own it', you can't easily check to see if it is destroying your engine slowly, you don't have the ability to analyse the car's performance under any driving conditions...the list goes on and on. What you get with the RSTuner is a transparent process where the tuning is done as a partnership with Henk - you the client / tester - Henk the personalised tuner. You keep the testing tools. Now that's confidence in his work.

You can also use your RSTuner and VCI to test other peoples Clio's. This is of value for a whole range of reasons. I know of a few people with alternate mappings who have data logged and realised that the map was too peaky and was causing detonation and a mirriad of other issues both limiting pwr and potentially damaging their engine. This goes for OEM mapping as well.

Another feature...e-mail each other the LD files and review and comment on each others cars and mods. Import them into Excel and create your own comparatives as a fella here in Aust does for fueling. Share it all on the forums. Everyone gains from this process too.

I have found the service level to be exceptional. Never an issue contacting him. Always personalised. I must admit this was a concern to me but it has been nothing but brilliant.

I have learnt so much about my car it's not funny! I can now mod with confidence as an exhaust system is next.

If anyone wants more examples then just e-mail me and I'll frwd to you many examples of screen grabs from the software.

Cheers

 

[Mark One]

How much is it then for the custom map and the required hardware without the wideband.

I should really invest in this to see more convincing gains from my 182 manifold and decat.

If I were to buy, get a custom map for current mods, then port my head at a later date - How much, if anything, would another custom map be?

 

[Mase]

Try the link to the website: http://www.fastchip.nl/ You are after the 'Pro' .ver with the custom mapping service.

I purchased mine a while back and I can only speak in Aussie dollars but expect to pay around $340 Aust for the VCI unit + cable + USB lead (interface between Laptop USB port and car), software & the first custom mapping sessions. Then later prob around $60 Aust per update. This is simply the labour fee.

Best mail Henk and get the actuals from him.

You'll definately 'see' the gains. Least you can map the car to the mods you have and then tune it to peak. Headwork will see some more significant gains with mapping. I know of a fella with cams and the flowed manifold seeing around 125kw ATW using the RSTuner mapping. He changed from another well known 'brand' of map after the data logger showed him what was really going on at higher rpms..not pretty.

Where I see the best gains is right in the meat of the revrange where I spend 'most' of my time when driving. I gained 5kw at the top. Mids were up more like 10kw and torque about 25 Nm on a standard engine bar panel filter and a slightly bigger CAI feed. The thing to not is the whole curve lifts so the area under the pwr & torque curves increase a fair amount.

Note - the mapping lifts idle to 900 rpm just the smooth out the common RSC slightly rough idle. It is also worth noting the transition from CL to OL running is much, much better than normal allowing greater work to be done at the middle rev range.

Henks working on a TFT LCD display much like a GPS design that will allow continuous real time monitoring of key parameters such as: Average Knock, Knock correction, O2, MAP, RPM, Speed from the ABS sensors, Intake temps, spark advance, absolute pressue, fuel trim, fuel trim gain : without the need for the lappy. I am on stby for this unit. Personally can't wait

Oh I forgot to mention another feature: you can test various items from the lappy such as, fuel pump, cam solendoid, instrument panel leds, carbon canister solenoid, radiator fan etc. Very neat.

Regards all, Mase

 

[BioHzrd]

Will the RS Tuning System be available for the Mk3 1.6 any time ? as i see on the site it is for the Mk2

 

[ForceIndia]

So, if I'm not planning cams/headwork, will the RStuner be sufficient, or is there any advatnge in the tunerpro?

 

[Mase]

Will the RS Tuning System be available for the Mk3 1.6 any time ? as i see on the site it is for the Mk2

Best thing to do is mail Henk via the website. He'll fill you in as frankly I have no idea! I think the Clio III 2.0 ltr is available as well as the Megane 225 versions and the R26.

Cheers

 

[Mase]

So, if I'm not planning cams/headwork, will the RStuner be sufficient, or is there any advatnge in the tunerpro?

Personally I would go the RSTuner pro version as every car is a bit different. The difference between the std RSTuner and the 'Pro' is simply additional funds being paid up front (at a discount compared to if you want additional mapping later) for custom mapping to your car. You also spend time testinmg and refining and get to know the cars characteristics and the RSTuner system well.

When you buy the standard RSTuner you will receive one uprated mapping which is more pwrful than the OEM mapping however a 'safe' map in that it will work for all RSC's. This is what the std map will do:

- raised idle speed (900 rpm)
- VVT also activated during warmup phase
- disabled ignition r****d during warmup phase
- improved throttle response
- faster CL to OL transition
- improved mid range torque and top end pwr delivery

The gains you will see will be majority middle rev range where there will be a noticable gain in torque. You'll pick up a couple of Kw's in the top end too, round 6600 in an RSC. But how much time do you spend there if not tracking the car?

Mind you, it's important to maintain the car mechanically as well. No point remapping if it's in need of work.

It's also handly to be methodical for example when you get your RSTuner you:
1. Data log (LD) the OEM map.
2. Performance Analyse (PA) the OEM map
3. Save the OEM .rst and .cal file and keep as these are your original maps in case you want to go back for what ever reason.
4. Load up new ECU mapping
5. LD the new map in a variety of conditions and send to Henk to confirm all good.
6. PA the new mapping on the SAME section of road (remember, dead flat, no wind, correct car weight, similiar ambient temps / air pressure, quality fuel) and compare the result so you can see where you have gained.
7. If you have the RSTuner Pro then you do the load, test, correspond, load, test, correspond routine a few times till Henk tells you that's about right on the mark. No rush you can do this obver time as I did as each mapping is safe and an improvement over the last one.

A feature I forgot to mention (again..silly me) is you can load up two previous PA logs on the same set of axis to compare runs. Neat. There is also a default set of parameters you can select with one mouse click when LD'ing. File's made auto name and date / time.

..also..phew..When there is a new version of the RSTuner software available from Fastchip..you just down load it. That way you always get upgraded software as they develop the product FOC. The newest software has an intelligent 'file' selector for doing the ECU reflashes as you must get this right and also a built in help file system. What's good is if you think of a good idea as what you think would be practical to have in the software, let Henk know and next .ver update it may well be there. I have contributed a bit over the last 8 months.

All good. Keep the questions coming ;-) I remember more all the time! Lol

 

[ForceIndia]

So, if I'm not planning cams/headwork, will the RStuner be sufficient, or is there any advatnge in the tunerpro?

Personally I would go the RSTuner pro version as every car is a bit different. The difference between the std RSTuner and the 'Pro' is simply additional funds being paid up front (at a discount compared to if you want additional mapping later) for custom mapping to your car. You also spend time testinmg and refining and get to know the cars characteristics and the RSTuner system well.

When you buy the standard RSTuner you will receive one uprated mapping which is more pwrful than the OEM mapping however a 'safe' map in that it will work for all RSC's. This is what the std map will do:

- raised idle speed (900 rpm)
- VVT also activated during warmup phase
- disabled ignition r****d during warmup phase
- improved throttle response
- faster CL to OL transition
- improved mid range torque and top end pwr delivery

The gains you will see will be majority middle rev range where there will be a noticable gain in torque. You'll pick up a couple of Kw's in the top end too, round 6600 in an RSC. But how much time do you spend there if not tracking the car?

Mind you, it's important to maintain the car mechanically as well. No point remapping if it's in need of work.

It's also handly to be methodical for example when you get your RSTuner you:
1. Data log (LD) the OEM map.
2. Performance Analyse (PA) the OEM map
3. Save the OEM .rst and .cal file and keep as these are your original maps in case you want to go back for what ever reason.
4. Load up new ECU mapping
5. LD the new map in a variety of conditions and send to Henk to confirm all good.
6. PA the new mapping on the SAME section of road (remember, dead flat, no wind, correct car weight, similiar ambient temps / air pressure, quality fuel) and compare the result so you can see where you have gained.
7. If you have the RSTuner Pro then you do the load, test, correspond, load, test, correspond routine a few times till Henk tells you that's about right on the mark. No rush you can do this obver time as I did as each mapping is safe and an improvement over the last one.

A feature I forgot to mention (again..silly me) is you can load up two previous PA logs on the same set of axis to compare runs. Neat. There is also a default set of parameters you can select with one mouse click when LD'ing. File's made auto name and date / time.

..also..phew..When there is a new version of the RSTuner software available from Fastchip..you just down load it. That way you always get upgraded software as they develop the product FOC. The newest software has an intelligent 'file' selector for doing the ECU reflashes as you must get this right and also a built in help file system. What's good is if you think of a good idea as what you think would be practical to have in the software, let Henk know and next .ver update it may well be there. I have contributed a bit over the last 8 months.

All good. Keep the questions coming ;-) I remember more all the time! Lol

Very confused now. On the website, it says the difference between the pro and the standard is the wideband sensor input, and there's a fee for custom remapping with both (ie you don't get a free custom map with either). What am I missing??

 

[Mase]

Might as well keep going...

Here is a screen grab of when I first hooked up to the car. You will see in the top left a table that displays the ECU info. Note my ECU was from factory running 6400 software (.rst file) with the 2B04 calibration (.cal file).

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1MF8rJ

This information is important as this will guide you to the right file choices to reflash with. In some circumstances you will need to reflash the .rst file first & then load the .cal file depending upon what software your car came with (I am talking Clio speak..Meganes etc will differ in file name). A full .rst reflash with take I am told 20min or so but just uploading a new .cal file takes about two minutes. Once you reflash the .rst file you never need to do this again..it's just .cal uploads here on in.

When you load a new .cal you will see a new line load into the list of calibrations in the middle to right /top of the image. From factory there should be three lines entered. If there are more you are already running a aftermarket mapping!!

In the middle of the image is where any faults will show and at the bottom is the 'refesh' button to clear and reset the faults. The Red 'fault' you see in mine isn't a fault in that it is a procedure the ECU goes through every time you start the car - 'find throttle limits'. If there are other faults they will display in orange or red. One colour (I don't recall now) means permanent fault and the other 'temporary'. Temps will clear with a refresh fault code command. Most faults are temp. It's just the ECU keeping tabs on things. I have seen very few if any faults as yet. I did once get a injector style fault..but once cleared has never returned.

Anyway..onto other things: here is an example of a PA where I tested the OEM map against the standard base line Fastchip map. I went to my 'private test track' here in the Adelaide Hills and with the OEM loaded did a pwr run in 3rd at WOT. I then loaded the Fastchip .cal on the side of the road and did another run minutes apart exact same conditions. It clearly shows the gains.

http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxjjfo0

Run one is OEM & run two std off the shelf non customised Fastchip.

Note now I have gone the custom mapping path my results are significantly better as noted back near the start of the thread. I'm up over 100kw and 175 Nm ATW. That took about 4 reflashes of the .cal file. I think running the car WOT helped free the engine up a tad too!

Just for fun here is the google maps to my private test track

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=-34.746042,138.95965&z=16&t=h&hl=en

Regards all,

Mase

 

[Mase]

Ok I'll try to clarify. Best thing to do is mail Henk from the website as things do change however here goes.

The wide band sensor input is fitted to the vehicle computer interface (VCI). It's optional and if wanted it is fitted to the VCI sold as the 'Pro' version.

The VCI that comes with the standard RSTuner does not have the facility to install a wideband O2.

A custom map is just that..customised to your car so there is a fee. Included in the purchase price of the std RST is a 'customised' from OEM mapping but not 'customised' to your car - you down load this from the website.

If you have a std RST system you can still contact Henk and start a customising mapping process however there is a fee for this service. Henk can remap your car by customising the mapping without wide band info... although having wide band 02 data is best if going with headwork and cams etc that really change the character of the cars volumetric efficiency. I hope this makes sense?

Best talk direct to Fastchip re their sales policy

 

[Fastchip]

Will the RS Tuning System be available for the Mk3 1.6 any time ? as i see on the site it is for the Mk2

Pass me your VIN number and I will implement support for it.

 

[Fastchip]

So, if I'm not planning cams/headwork, will the RStuner be sufficient, or is there any advatnge in the tunerpro?

The normal version will do fine then.

 

[Barron]

the unlocking service, once its unlocked does it instantly lock to another car so you cant use it on the previous car?

thanks
carl

 

[gtruk]

correct, from my understanding you would then need to another unlock code to go back to the original car.

 

[gtruk]

Might as well keep going...



http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxjjfo0

Run one is OEM & run two std off the shelf non customised Fastchip.


Regards all,

Mase

So on the standard remap from the site all you saw was 3bhp? and 1nm of torque? Gotta say mine "feels" alot more than 3bhp with the 6400 group n rst and feb 2008 cal! Guess ill just have to run back to back runs and compare. Where did you find your weight of your car and how did you calculate the weight of the fluids?

 

[BioHzrd]

Will the RS Tuning System be available for the Mk3 1.6 any time ? as i see on the site it is for the Mk2

Pass me your VIN number and I will implement support for it.

The Chassis Number ??

 

[gtruk]

yes

 

[Mase]

Might as well keep going...



http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxjjfo0

Run one is OEM & run two std off the shelf non customised Fastchip.


Regards all,

Mase

So on the standard remap from the site all you saw was 3bhp? and 1nm of torque? Gotta say mine "feels" alot more than 3bhp with the 6400 group n rst and feb 2008 cal! Guess ill just have to run back to back runs and compare. Where did you find your weight of your car and how did you calculate the weight of the fluids?

Hi - that was running the standard however 'summer map' for Aust which allowed for 40+ deg ambient temps. It was using the RSTuner PA 3kw which is more like 4 HP at peak pwr HOWEVER..this is what a lot of people forget..peak pwr is a minor transient..you should be focused on the area under the curves. Go back and have another look. So yes, my did also feel signifcantly more pwrful through the entire rev range. Just like yours I'm now on the 'winter map' :evil:

I weighed the car at a 'Garden Centre' where they have a weigh station with myself in it and a known amount of fuel plus what ever else is normal for my car. You can work it out from the vehicle spec's and an approximation to 1 ltr = 1 kg...that'll get you close.

 

[Mase]

The other thing to note is how the new map 'hangs on' in the upper revs compared to the OEM map. Now my car with the custom mapping has that huge platue in the high revs shown on the dyno back in the original posts. Very pleased.

 

[gtruk]

I see exactly what your saying, and believe im experiencing the same thing too. The power may not be +100bhp but the power is constant and pulls stronger that ever before from lower down and above 7000rpm.

im a little concerned im getting 42mpg with careful driving.....thats insane. I used to get 38mpg....so im pleased too. A decent map with power and good mpg to match

 

[GodSpeed]

I just ordered the pro version of RSTuner. I have a 2005 Clio Sport 182 I would like to use a Group-N map but dont want to loose the cruice control, is this prossible to do?

I also wonder since there have been some talking about summer and winter maps. Is not the RSTuner map capable of dealing with all kinds of temperatures? In Sweden it ranges from +35 to -35 at worst.

 

[Mase]

Hi - I can't say what the deal is with cruise as I have a 172 however I see no issues.

Here in Australia it gets 'stupidly' hot for extended periods 38-45 degs for 10 days straight. When Henk did me up my first maps it was mid summer so he allowed for this in the tuning. Sure you can run a map for a range of temps however there will be a reduction in performance due to the lack of capacity of the warmer air to carry 02. Me..well now I'm on the cold weather map (not that cold but cold for us ;-) ) What I will do is drive more carefully in summer. What I mean by that is I won't put my foot flat to the boards in 3rd or 4th to 7400 rpm. I think you will find Henk to be the consumate professional and highly skilled in what he does. You make it clear what you are after and you will get. Make sure you hold up your end of the bargain by doing quality data logs.

Cheers

 

[gtruk]

there is no group N map available for the 182. There are maps for your car and the cruise control DOES work with these maps, any problems henk will resolve swiftly anyway....but you should be fine.

The atmospheric based maps were for a guy in AUS where its very hot and dry most of the time. Getting one map as a generic will work sufficently, unless you want to get a custom map, and then you might want both

 

[GodSpeed]

My plan is to run a generic map to start with. Main reason for me is to get more midrange power since the car feels weak on track on below 5000rpm. So the rpm increase feels kind of pointless to me.

I choose the Pro version since I plan to install CatCams 428, matched inlet and exhaust later on. So my plan is to complete these things with a BB-lambda and a custom map.

Whats the differance in between a 172 Group-N map and a performance map for the 182 then?? Just the name realy? Similar gains from both as the website states?