Do you class 1*2s as "hothatches"

[Ian_182]

fiat 100,citroen c2 vtr/vts,saxo vts,all pug 106's and smart's are suprmini's

Hot hatches are clio's,s3's,meg 230's,escort cossies,seat leon's,astra VXR's and golfs

 

[penfish4]

You have to remember though, suspension and tyres have come a long way since big power FWD cars were first invented. Also, on the point of things like 300bhp Focus STs, most of them don't make 300bhg till you're in 4th gear and above (referring to conversions such as the Wolf 300) because of the traction issues in lower gears.

Dan

Allow me to clarify..

Wolf run the Code Red ECU software, torque is limited in 1st/2nd gear in all their cars but you can have software that removes all torque limiters to trackdays, 1/4 miles days etc. One guy I know clocked a 0-60mph at Silverstone of 5.1 seconds in his WR330. It's nothing to do with traction issues, it's to give the drivetrain some longevity.

My ST runs Bluefin Level 3 and is limited in 1st/2nd. This is too much power for the ESP and it needs to switched off to full exploit the power.

 

[foxon]

Yeah id say so.... even with newer cars coming out with more power the 1*2's are still capable and proven cars with a decent amount of power.
Ben

agree

 

[foxon]

fiat 100,citroen c2 vtr/vts,saxo vts,all pug 106's and smart's are suprmini's

Hot hatches are clio's,s3's,meg 230's,escort cossies,seat leon's,astra VXR's and golfs

wudn`t personally class a escort cossie as a hot hatch imo :S

 

[penfish4]

fiat 100,citroen c2 vtr/vts,saxo vts,all pug 106's and smart's are suprmini's

Hot hatches are clio's,s3's,meg 230's,escort cossies,seat leon's,astra VXR's and golfs

wudn`t personally class a escort cossie as a hot hatch imo :S

227bhp in standard form and only 5bhp/tonne more than a 172 Cup...

However try finding a standard one.

 

[foxon]

a?? mine or the cossie, sorry i`m abit confussed now lol

 

[Benbosh]

fiat 100,citroen c2 vtr/vts,saxo vts,all pug 106's and smart's are suprmini's

Hot hatches are clio's,s3's,meg 230's,escort cossies,seat leon's,astra VXR's and golfs

Well no tbh a clio is the same size as a saxo/106!!!!! How can you plonk a clio in the class you have??? all of them are bigger.
In my view the clio comes in the first class you have put down.

 

[Benbosh]

I see you point with regaurds to other cars that are easily mapable though. But hey where's the fun in that?? lol and i mean 300 bhp isnt really usuable power tbh is it? id say max 230 bhp in a hot hatch is more than enough (Front wheel drive)

My Focus ST is circa 300bhp and perfectly useable everyday :rasp:

How is 300 bhp usable power everday???? when you said yourself
My ST runs Bluefin Level 3 and is limited in 1st/2nd. This is too much power for the ESP and it needs to switched off to full exploit the power.Today 16:47"



So your car is limited in 1st and 2nd then so i would say end of 2nd gear is approx 65 ish so therefore your so called "usable power" is available for 5mph!! (On UK roads)
And before comments come in about "ahh but he said its limited unless he turns off the ESP"My 172 cup in standard form pulled on a standard ST with the ESP off what an awful drive!!! (Excellent when ESP is on though one of the best IMO!!!!) (oh and this is my car with me driving the ST and with the ST driver driving my Cup!!!! and vice versa)

 

[mace¬]

Is a hot hatch not any hartchback car that a manufacturer produces over the base model that has an emphasis on performance rather than economy and comfort through suspension, brakes and engine modifications.

I think all people are talking about is what is a good hot hatch?

 

[Martin_172]

imo a hot hatch is when a manufacturer takes its economical non performance car (clio, corsa, saxo, 106, starlet, 205 etc) and develops it to handle well and sticks a resonably powerfull engine in it (something thats MUCH MUCH more powerful than that cars ever going to need for the purpose it was designed (eg. shopping trips, school runs!)

 

[John D]

My Focus ST is circa 300bhp and perfectly useable everyday :rasp:

How is 300 bhp usable power everday???? when you said yourself
My ST runs Bluefin Level 3 and is limited in 1st/2nd. This is too much power for the ESP and it needs to switched off to full exploit the power.Today 16:47"

You don't have to mash the pedal every day

 

[lasbazrre]

You can still get 300bhp with a nice torque curve instead of a big lump in 1st and 2nd!

It's the mark of a good remap!

leon

 

[Ian_182]

fiat 100,citroen c2 vtr/vts,saxo vts,all pug 106's and smart's are suprmini's

Hot hatches are clio's,s3's,meg 230's,escort cossies,seat leon's,astra VXR's and golfs

Well no tbh a clio is the same size as a saxo/106!!!!! How can you plonk a clio in the class you have??? all of them are bigger.
In my view the clio comes in the first class you have put down.

All quoted from evo in the knowledge section

 

[MarkCup]

For me, you have to be able to rag the hell out of a hot hatch, and throw it the f*** about.

Nothing better.

To do that in a 300bhp FWD barge on anything but a track is suicidal.

 

[penfish4]

For me, you have to be able to rag the hell out of a hot hatch, and throw it the f*** about.

Nothing better.

To do that in a 300bhp FWD barge on anything but a track is suicidal.

I found the my ST is alot more comfortable around a fast flowing circuit like the Nordschleife, I was running comfy 9:00 laps however for UK tracks with tight 2nd gear corners the heavy front end compromises handling. the 300bhp @ 1.2 bar comes in handy when you're exiting the corner though. However the reason I'm here is because I'm looking at buy a 172 Cup for trackdays and I'm doing my homework.

 

[Ian_182]

172 is good for the track.
Couple of them on here as you already know

 

[R20 CWH]

clios are hot hatches as i think the handling standard is pretty impressive and for the bang per buck its a hard package to beat, ever though there are better cars out there they inevitably cost alot more.

Take a ph1/cup/ mk2/r27 down a B road for some spirited driving and it is a quality experience.