engine conversion

[Pete-W]

am wanting to put a 16v engine in my rt. and have numerous questions hopefully people could answer for me while i consider how to go about it.

1. would it b able to b a straight swap? or new engine mounts made etc?

2. has anyone done this themselves? know how to do it?

3. how much would it cost to get someone to do it roughly?

4. do drive shafts match up?

5. would a 16v clutch be fine or worth uprating as it would be out anyway?

6. how much should i b able to pick one up for?

cheers in advance

Pete

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by Pete-W on 02 March 2003


am wanting to put a 16v engine in my rt. and have numerous questions hopefully people could answer for me while i consider how to go about it.

1. would it b able to b a straight swap? or new engine mounts made etc? No

2. has anyone done this themselves? know how to do it? No

3. how much would it cost to get someone to do it roughly? 2000

4. do drive shafts match up? No..use the box too

5. would a 16v clutch be fine or worth uprating as it would be out anyway? std is fine

6. how much should i b able to pick one up for? 300-400..then get the box

cheers in advance

Pete

 

[lofty]

buy a valver, it will be far less trouble and alot cheaper to buy and get on the road and worth far more when you sell it, and people wont think your driving a crappy RT.

just one person opinion, but its just not a straight forward conversion, and there are nice enough valvers about for £2k if thats what you want, and with that you get brakes suspension etc etc etc

 

[Daz]

Lofty, why didnt you buy a Williams if you wanted 2.0l then?

 

[BenR]

because it can be done for 300 quid.......and not the 2k it would take for an RT

 

[torsiontuning]

If you have a complete donor car, we can do the swap, wouldnt be anywhere near £2000, pm or mail me if you are interested!

 

[lofty]

Daz, you drive a base model clio, i wasnt even going to respond to your post but......

If the conversion is easier with a donar car then surely it your attention would be better focused on the donar car. The alternative is swapping absolutly everything (e.g rear quaters) onto the base model clio, and when you consider the labour and the buying cost of the donar car its just not feasable, the car wont have the same resale value of the 16v, insurance with a 16v is cheap anyway, mine cost me £900 with no NCB when i was 20 which is very reasonable for this type of car.

 

[Daz]

Quote: Originally posted by lofty on 03 March 2003


Daz, you drive a base model clio, i wasnt even going to respond to your post but......

Ignoring that bit, you made a decent post, so Im going to ignore the first sentance.

I agree about that, and personally I wouldnt pay 2k for a Valver engine to go in, say, an RT.. You COULD buy a decent Valver for that, sell your RT and make it mint with that money - I can see that. Hands up, I was probably hasty in my original post.

After saying that, an RT -> GTT Lump conversion is much more worth it, if, say, you want Turbo Power. Dunno its costing people inc. donor car and gtt conversion, but I guess its quite cheap for the massive power gains you can see.

Ive been in Mat Browns 2.0l Valver, and its amazing.. if I didnt have my car, could afford the insurance and had the money, Id probably have it tomorrow - but I dont/cant. So instead, Im doing my car up, making it look nice, so when the time comes when I can afford a quicker car, an engine conversion makes more sense - I guess it depends on how much your current car has cost you and what condition its in as to whether to go for a conversion or not.

Daz.

 

[lofty]

good responce daz, well done for not throwing the rattle out the pram is i did.

I had a Mk3 fiesta 1.6S with an XR2i bodykit and big wheels, weve all been there, but believe me when your insurance is reasonable, performance is the way to go!

 

[Pete-W]

yea i could start with a valver but not as fun! my car has 16v front brakes already and sus is in the pipeline and b with me shortly. no one will expect a fast 5 door clio!

mates dad is an engineer and could give a hand in us doing the conversion! could b a project though!

also would have to start the whole doing it up again. fancy just carrying on. just my opinion anway!

Pete

 

[Nick Read]

To me there would only be two options. One is do a GTT transplant. Torsion Tuning have done a few. Option two is flog the RT and buy a valver which is a much better car. I have owned both so I know. The RT is a nice nippy car, but the handling on a valver is a lot better, and no-ones going to want to race you in a 5 door anyway!

 

[Pete-W]

going to have adjustable suspension front and rear to should handle fine. but fair point nick. all will b taken into consideration b4 a final decision is made!

any more comments welcome!

Pete

 

[lofty]

with the greatest of repect your flogging a dead horse. The 5 dr is most valuable in standard form (almost all car are) the money you are spending on suspension and brakes would fund the differnce in insurance.

your right any car can be good with the money spent, loook at the top gear lotus Lada..... but it cost £100k

a valver is £2k and its alot of fun, and a much better starting block for bigger thing

 

[coolspot007007]

option 3: get a 16v AND a GTT conversion, its the way forward, i hope

 

[steve_rt]

i would agree with lofty - while the visions of transforming the bog standard RT into a valver-beating legend are v.pretty, i have had to rationalise myself and convince myself that its just not economically feasible! ive decided to make it look good and keep it in very sound mechanical health, nd then sell it on to a first-car buyer when i can afford both the valver and the insurance!

 

[Daz]

If you made your RT better than a Valver (And dont say its not possible), then surely an engine conversion is the way to go. Why spend thousands of pounds on a car to sell it for, basically, a higher, standard model. Dont make sense to me.

Daz.

 

[marcus cliogtt]

If you are intersted in the conversion mate, then my 16v will be at Torsion Tuning soon and I am swapping it for a GTT lump so it could work out well for all involved as the engine would be there waiting for you.........

 

[coolspot007007]

when are you getting it done? and what spec engine are you putting in? The one im going for is a little over 200bhp as it is at the moment.

 

[marcus cliogtt]

Currently its just a completely standard 5 engine which has recently had a re-build, not looking for huge power yet as I cannot afford a decent turbo at the moment!! Just strap and flow the standard intercooler, re-jet the carb and get the uprated clutch and headgasket in, and all the low temp stuff then get it running at max of 16psi, for now!!!

Dont know exactly when its going to get done but the donar car should be with torsion soon.

 

[Pete-W]

in interest 16v clio what is the theory behind changing to a GTT? its obviously the other option for me but thinking 16v but for no real reason!.

Pete

 

[Daz]

Because GTT conversions are the way forward.

 

[marcus cliogtt]

It depends on the type of car you want to drive, I have never had any problems with my 16v, but to push for 200bhp I would need to spend so much money. I just fancy a change to be honest, I had a GTT before my valver but it was a nail and now I have the chance to get a sorted one!

 

[coolspot007007]

Im picking up my donor next week, runs 22 PSI, and im trying to get hold of an RB206 roller bearing turbo. Then im looking at twin carbs when theyre available form GDI, with twin injector kit for each carb, big k-tec intercooler and oil cooler, and ill be on my way.

 

[marcus cliogtt]

Thats going to be a monster mate! If you dont mind me asking how much did you pay for the donor car?

 

[coolspot007007]

well i put a deposit on it at the weekend, pick it up this weekend or early the following week. Im paying £3500 for it, nearly all ktec kit on it, engine rebuilt to competition spec Jan 02, folder full of receipts. Nearly all the cash has been spent on the engine its exactly what im looking for

 

[marcus cliogtt]

fair play to you mate, are you having it done at Torsion Tuning?

 

[coolspot007007]

will be. need to ring em. whats the guys name?

 

[RobFenn]

How can an R5 conv be the way forward when the engine is older than the car lol

Is the wheelbase on the RT 5 door diff to valver?

 

[BenR]

sheesh....for that sort of money, plus the labour and other parts, you can have a 200+ valver!

 

[clean16v]

Plus a more progressive/controllable power output so you can put the power down. Whats the point in a 200BHP FWD clio if it all comes in a hit at 3k? Traction? dont think so!

 

[Ben H]

I bought a 16v a year and a half ago after coming to the same conclusion that Lofty and others are pointing out. My 1.2 3-door Mk1 Clio was never going to be a 16v, no matter what I did to it.

But with all the money Ive ploughed into my 16v, I could have probably just about afforded to make a unique Maxi-replica, GT Turbo-engined car out of my 1.2. I understand the satisfaction there is in making a car like that, but it would still have major down-sides.

The bona fide 16v was developed in isolation of the Clio range by Renault Sport. I would list all the parts that are uprated, but I think its easier if you just imagine a part - and it will most probably be different.

For example: yes, you can fit better shocks, but what about the anti-roll bars, track width and ability of all the RT parts to handle the extra power/stress of a doubling in power? Not to mention the structural intergrity of the shell, cooling systems, weight distribution and handling (rather than just grip). OK, it can be done. But how about a 16v as a starting point - then going for a BB Turbo 300bhp conversion!

I know this all sounds like a big go at the idea, but its not intended that way. The worst thing to do is to go half way down the line, then realise (like I did) that a proper sorted hot hatch is a better starting point. Id just run around in your RT for another six months or so and then get a Valver just in time for the summer.

 

[coolspot007007]

I havent seen a valver that can do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds but an R5 with 350bhp can, a lot of that comes from the engine obviously, so i think it is a good starting point. I know traction will be a problem, but its a FWD car so once you get past 220-230 its always going to be a problem. I know 200bhp can be had cheaply in comparison but not 250bhp and above, the 2.1 at Hill Power with T/Bs didnt even have that.

I wanted the BB conversion, but if you go for a 5 youve got off the shelf parts and plenty of specialists to choose from. You get the BB turbo youre stuck with BB, im not saying thats a bad thing, but its nice to have a choice. And AFAIK there isnt a 16v GTT been done yet, so until there is i think its best to wait and see how it performs.

 

[marcus cliogtt]

Just posted this on RSC:

Its not a downgrade at all if you ask me, think about it logically, the GTT conversion including the donor car will cost me about £1500, I can then sell the parts off the GTT and sell me engine which should give me some cash back, and so know have a car capable of 200+bhp for less than a £1000, and so 200bhp for £2500 and I will have a new clutch, headgasket etc, and so thats £1500 cheaper allready, next if I had the K-Tec or BB conversion, and there was a problem the only place I could go to get it fixed would be there and it would probably cost a small fortune, but if there is problems with the GTT then I can get the parts for cheaper and they dont need to be fitted by a complete specalist.



Thats my theory anyway!

 

[coolspot007007]

Well Said!...again

 

[BenR]

i still think it ruins the character of the valver......but hey, its up to u man!

 

[marcus cliogtt]

I have allready runied the character with my bodywork!!!!

I would love to go for the 1.8 conversion but I cannot afford it out right and if it did go wrong the parts involved in the conversion are loads of money to replace and you could only really get it done where you had the conversion done.

 

[lofty]

push rod 1400 8v

nice!

Ask NickG1234 about big BHP R5GTT reliabaility.

the 350BHP R5 was the twin engined 4wd one wasnt it? hardly a fair comparison,

the power delivery on a big power R5GTTT engine is going to be brutel not progressive like the n/a F7P (the turbocharged F7P will be similar the the R5), a real hand full out of bends, gret in a straight line but you just want that why buy a valver in the first place?

 

[RobFenn]

Theres always going to be people who like the cars standard and those who want to completley change it. IMO i think if the cars not good enough in your eyes in the first place, why did you buy it? Over 200bhp in a valver is also a joke, big power figures arent all what cars are about.

-Rob

 

[Daz]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 05 March 2003

IMO i think if the cars not good enough in your eyes in the first place, why did you buy it?

Unless you are the sole designer of a car, then no car is going to be absolutly perfect for any one person. Example, if 16v Clio wants Valver handling and everything else a Valver offers.. but Turbocharged, he cant have it as standard - unless, he does an engine conversion or straps a charger on, which he is doing.

Daz.

 

[coolspot007007]

the 16v was good enough when i bought it, as it was a good step up from my RT. But i always wanted a 5 turbo, just i prefer the creature comforts and styling of the valver, now i can have best of both.

The rason why im sticking with the 16v is basically ive already spent too much money to justify selling my car and getting something better. So i might as well make it properly quick. The 350bhp R5 has one engine, was running race fuel (110 octane?) and 15s on the front 17s rear, but other than that, it was pretty much off the shelf mods from k-tec and a rebuilt engine AFAIK.