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indeed it isn't, nearly bought one a few years back.
I think the biggest shooting themselves in the foot that Renault have done is making the 197 the same price as the Cooper S, its more expensive than the 182 without seemingly being able to bring anything new to the plate. Not saying I would want a Cooper, but I would take it over the 197, its bound to be a far nicer "Ownership" experience, it wont break down as much as the Clio. Even though im not a fan of the Mini interior its still going to be far nicer and better put together than the 197, I mean you cant even get Leather or Alcantara on the 197, the switches and equipment just felt plain tackey when I sat in the one at goodwood. The Mini is going to be more relaxed when you want it to be with the Torque and a little faster when your on a run.
If it were cheaper you would have a good reason to buy it, and it would be good value and a good car for the money, but in its current price bracket I dont think it is. Its as if Renault have just thought "ah ze 182 waz a succesz, letz put the price up and zose English are bound to fall for it, ahahhahaha."
If it were cheaper you would have a good reason to buy it, and it would be good value and a good car for the money, but in its current price bracket I dont think it is. Its as if Renault have just thought "ah ze 182 waz a succesz, letz put the price up and zose English are bound to fall for it, ahahhahaha."
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Nonetheless, the 197 doesn't feel very quick. If it really does have to weigh c.1250kg then it needs the power & torque to match it. Because it doesn't, Renault have doubtless already lost a lot of sales. I don't think many of us could argue that?
I don't see how weight can be an excuse? The car makers are the ones who sold us on airbags and 5" thick door pillars with endless drivell about safety. If you want to sell those cars as performance machines, then give them the power they need to overcome the portly mass that you have engineered into them to satisfy Moe & Joe who want 40 airbags because you told them they could have 35.
I don't care if the 197 weighs 1500kg, if you want me to buy it at that weight then give it 250bhp and as much torque. If you don't then I'll buy another car. Period.
I don't care if the 197 weighs 1500kg, if you want me to buy it at that weight then give it 250bhp and as much torque. If you don't then I'll buy another car. Period.
but do you get the message that people are not buying the 197 like they did the 172/182 ?
do you think the 197 is going to be a success?
are you happy with current sales and the predicted sales of the 197?
are you happy with the car? do you think it's what people want?
when are renault going to bring out a version that people will buy like they did the 172/182? how long do we have to wait for a decent version of the 197?
just a few questions that i hope will be answered :clown:
MKIII 138
i thought compared with the 182 the new clio was leagues ahead in terms of interior quality and space its clearly a safer car too. at the point of impact your not too bothered about bhp par say its more like am i going to see my daughter again ?
sure it could be argued its slower in fact it is but even so were all just used to speed now 195bhp in 1240kg cant be described as slow but it does put it back about 7yrs when the likes of the st200 was the average mans bench mark 0-60 in 7.2 and 0-100 in 18.5 now were used to the cups doing 16.8 to 100 and 6.3 to 60
sure it could be argued its slower in fact it is but even so were all just used to speed now 195bhp in 1240kg cant be described as slow but it does put it back about 7yrs when the likes of the st200 was the average mans bench mark 0-60 in 7.2 and 0-100 in 18.5 now were used to the cups doing 16.8 to 100 and 6.3 to 60
Interesting first post. Was the clown icon directed at me or did you want a serious answer ?
do you think the 197 is going to be a success?
are you happy with current sales and the predicted sales of the 197?
are you happy with the car? do you think it's what people want?
when are renault going to bring out a version that people will buy like they did the 172/182? how long do we have to wait for a decent version of the 197?
are you happy with current sales and the predicted sales of the 197?
are you happy with the car? do you think it's what people want?
when are renault going to bring out a version that people will buy like they did the 172/182? how long do we have to wait for a decent version of the 197?
Ah ok.
do you think the 197 is going to be a success? Yes, I've no doubt.
are you happy with current sales and the predicted sales of the 197? Yes
are you happy with the car? Yes.
do you think it's what people want? That depends on what individuals want. It is different to the 172/182. Sadly there won't be a new hot hatch as light as those were.
when are renault going to bring out a version that people will buy like they did the 172/182? how long do we have to wait for a decent version of the 197? The car will not get any more power and there's not a great deal that can be saved in weight (it's already lighter than the Polo GTi, 207 GTi etc). There could be a stiffer suspension set-up for more track use depending on demand.
do you think the 197 is going to be a success? Yes, I've no doubt.
are you happy with current sales and the predicted sales of the 197? Yes
are you happy with the car? Yes.
do you think it's what people want? That depends on what individuals want. It is different to the 172/182. Sadly there won't be a new hot hatch as light as those were.
when are renault going to bring out a version that people will buy like they did the 172/182? how long do we have to wait for a decent version of the 197? The car will not get any more power and there's not a great deal that can be saved in weight (it's already lighter than the Polo GTi, 207 GTi etc). There could be a stiffer suspension set-up for more track use depending on demand.
fair play then, guess it's just the minority of people on here who are not buying the 197. At least you'll have all the sales from people who have never driven the 172/182, it's just a shame so many people who actually have driven the 172/182 don't want to buy the 197. Renault could have had so many more sales if they hadn't made such a good car of the 172/182
FN2 Type R +MK6 Golf
The majority were waiting for the next step forward in power and handling.They have'nt got either.The base price without xenons and the likes i think is 16k.Thats more expensive than the full fat 182 iirc.so they have'nt moved anything on,especially for the enthusiasts on here.It may have moved on for someones mum who buys one and thinks "yeh its nice",but thats not what people are on here for.
ian
ian
106 GTi
Have the specs etc of the 207 GTi been published now? I have not seen them?
With all the rumours about it still flying round there was talk of it having more power than in the mini.
It will also be easily chipable now aswell. Still it may still drive as bad as the 206 though!
The specs for the 207 GT 150 are out and that's heavier than the 197 by c.100kgs. The GTi can only be more
LOL
that's a bit like saying.....
"the 197 isn't such a bad car because the opposition are even worse"
just because some other car happens to be worse than a 197 (speed wise) bears no relation to what people think of the 197..... it's not going to be as big a success as the 182 no matter how many other cars you say as worse than it
I think we just have to accept that Renaultsport have realised that, for now at least, they wan't a bigger divide between Clio and Megane in terms of pace. Shame really, as GM don't seem to have any such ideas with the Corsa VXR, which by all accounts will 'destroy' the 197 in a straight line. Newsflash - that does matter for 98% of non track day attending hot hatch buyers. Surely sales matter for dev costs available to Renaultsport?
This shouldn't be a Jeramey witch hunt, and I don't expect honest answers from him on here. I'd like to buy him a few pints and have a chat about the 197. I know he doesn't (as a driver & buyer) think that the 197 should feel slower than the 182
This shouldn't be a Jeramey witch hunt, and I don't expect honest answers from him on here. I'd like to buy him a few pints and have a chat about the 197. I know he doesn't (as a driver & buyer) think that the 197 should feel slower than the 182
I think we just have to accept that Renaultsport have realised that, for now at least, they wan't a bigger divide between Clio and Megane in terms of pace. Shame really, as GM don't seem to have any such ideas with the Corsa VXR, which by all accounts will 'destroy' the 197 in a straight line. Newsflash - that does matter for 98% of non track day attending hot hatch buyers. Surely sales matter for dev costs available to Renaultsport?
This shouldn't be a Jeramey witch hunt, and I don't expect honest answers from him on here. I'd like to buy him a few pints and have a chat about the 197. I know he doesn't (as a driver & buyer) think that the 197 should feel slower than the 182
he's got to tow the company line and spout the usual b****cks about how good the 197 is, but it's quite clear that the people who really matter (the people who are buying that s**t heap with their own cash) don't believe the bulls**t
Thanks for your thoughtsI think we just have to accept that Renaultsport have realised that, for now at least, they wan't a bigger divide between Clio and Megane in terms of pace. Shame really, as GM don't seem to have any such ideas with the Corsa VXR, which by all accounts will 'destroy' the 197 in a straight line. Newsflash - that does matter for 98% of non track day attending hot hatch buyers. Surely sales matter for dev costs available to Renaultsport?
This shouldn't be a Jeramey witch hunt, and I don't expect honest answers from him on here. I'd like to buy him a few pints and have a chat about the 197. I know he doesn't (as a driver & buyer) think that the 197 should feel slower than the 182
he's got to tow the company line and spout the usual b****cks about how good the 197 is, but it's quite clear that the people who really matter (the people who are buying that s**t heap with their own cash) don't believe the bulls**t
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
a real shame about the 197...in standard guise anyway.
like the review said, i'm waiting for them to pull a gem out of the bag, which could EASILY be done with the 197 as a platform.
like the review said, i'm waiting for them to pull a gem out of the bag, which could EASILY be done with the 197 as a platform.
Clio 197
As enthusiastic as we are about cars...
...most renalutsports (as far as I can tell, down here in the South-West) aren't owned by enthusiasts.
My local dealer in Taunton has sold a fair few 197's, and I doubt if the new owners will ever actually realise there's a 6th gear!!
The good news is that I've been able to find an 04 182 with 8,000 miles on it, for under £9k. It's another one of those "runarounds" which has been cast-off for another model.
In the south-east, where there's more money floating around at a younger age; perhaps it'll be different? Perhaps there will be more enthusiasts on the market?
Down here, people buying a 197 probably won't care about it's lack of straight-line pace (as much as we do on here). Now, that'll account for a fair chunk of sales, which is all Renault care about.
I know one thing for sure: Everyone who's driven a 182 feels disappointed by the 197, and this is coming from Renault's own sales people.
...most renalutsports (as far as I can tell, down here in the South-West) aren't owned by enthusiasts.
My local dealer in Taunton has sold a fair few 197's, and I doubt if the new owners will ever actually realise there's a 6th gear!!
The good news is that I've been able to find an 04 182 with 8,000 miles on it, for under £9k.
It's another one of those "runarounds" which has been cast-off for another model.In the south-east, where there's more money floating around at a younger age; perhaps it'll be different? Perhaps there will be more enthusiasts on the market?
Down here, people buying a 197 probably won't care about it's lack of straight-line pace (as much as we do on here). Now, that'll account for a fair chunk of sales, which is all Renault care about.
I know one thing for sure: Everyone who's driven a 182 feels disappointed by the 197, and this is coming from Renault's own sales people.
