F4R forged cranks

[ripp]

Hi there,
I'm currently on the hunt for a new crank and stumped on this let's say mistery.
I was said by someone that many cranks in the 1*2 line are cast iron items and that a better option would be the 197 crank which is forged. Ok so I started to dig up on this and found some particularities for both cast and forged cranks:
Cast ones have a narrow parting line from the mold whereas the forged ones have wider parting line like here:

Then I took some pics of the new OE crank that is listed for my 182 which is this one:

Well this to me looks forged as well.
What do you think?
And if someone has some detailed pics of the 197 crank to compare then pls share!
Is there any other way of telling whether a renault crank is forged or not? Any specific markings on it?
Any info greatly appreciated!
Cheers!

 

[Touring_Rob]

Might be that Renault ran out of stock for the 182 and substituted a newer compatible part number...

Although I've not read about anyone breaking the cast crank so I would just go with what ever you can get.

 

[robzracing]

Might be that Renault ran out of stock for the 182 and substituted a newer compatible part number...

Although I've not read about anyone breaking the cast crank so I would just go with what ever you can get.

I have bent one though!


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[Touring_Rob]

I have bent one though!


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How the hell did you manage that haha.

 

[ripp]

But are they cast or not? This new replacement one looks forged..

 

[robzracing]

How the hell did you manage that haha.

Selected 2nd instead of 4th at Thruxton. 11000rpm and exit stage left for the rod on cylinder 3.


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[botfch]

But are they cast or not? This new replacement one looks forged..

Does it matter?

As Rob said Renault probably moved manufacturing to a forged process and no longer make the cast item.

 

[ripp]

Well forged are supposed to be stronger and if I have the engine in pieces and spend a small fortune rebuilding it then a forged item may be the one I want 👍

 

[Touring_Rob]

Well forged are supposed to be stronger and if I have the engine in pieces and spend a small fortune rebuilding it then a forged item may be the one I want 👍

Fair enough but unless your shifting to aftermarket forged pistons and rods there is no point in worrying about it. Good luck with the build.

 

[Touring_Rob]

Selected 2nd instead of 4th at Thruxton. 11000rpm and exit stage left for the rod on cylinder 3.


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Good effort that

 

[ripp]

Fair enough but unless your shifting to aftermarket forged pistons and rods there is no point in worrying about it. Good luck with the build.

Of course but now I have the choice between the replacement crank in the photos above or the 197 crank which many say it is forged and very close to the 182 crank in design-similar counterweights arrangement and weight and basically at the same price as the one above but harder to find.

 

[Touring_Rob]

The obvious answer is 197 crank, rods and pistons because then your getting something extra for your efforts.

 

[ripp]

^exactly! It's just that the 197 is harder to find and I've been waiting for it for 2 and a half months now.. That's why I'm looking for alternatives but this new one looks like it's not that good of a design. But if it's forged at least it's worth looking at.

 

[gambit]

I can confirm that my 197 crank that I have looks forged as per your earlier picture.
Here it is:

 

[Touring_Rob]

I can confirm that my 197 crank that I have looks forged as per your earlier picture.
Here it is:
View attachment 1496981

Dead nice of you to whip your sump off to grab the picture mate.

 

[gambit]

Dead nice of you to whip your sump off to grab the picture mate.

Your welcome

 

[deanoE30M3]

Solution found:

Billet Steel Crankshaft

Billet steel crankshaft for all F4R engines made from EN40B billets that are heat treated and with nitrided finish. These are made in the UK to our specifications and all cranks are made to o

www.pure-motorsport.co.uk

 

[robzracing]

Solution found:

Billet Steel Crankshaft

Billet steel crankshaft for all F4R engines made from EN40B billets that are heat treated and with nitrided finish. These are made in the UK to our specifications and all cranks are made to o

www.pure-motorsport.co.uk

The solution to the problem no one ever had


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[Touring_Rob]

The solution to the problem no one ever had


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But... Shiny

 

[robzracing]

But... Shiny

Ah, well I’ll get my credit card then.


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[ripp]

Left new crank design right my OE crank. Notice the counterweights.

And the 197 crank above which is very similar and the main reason for wanting it. Looks stronger too (it's also heavier)

 

[Touring_Rob]

Can't see any balancing marks on the new crank (left of your top picture). I have read that sometimes new cranks supplied on their own sometimes are not balanced, however this was more for tank stuff.

I would agree here that the replacement does not look anything like the original or 197, if it's lighter AND the counter weights are smaller I would have a few questions and would for sure what to have the rotating assembly balanced.

What's up with your original crank? If it's damaged and looking at those pictures I would personally just buy a used 197 engine and use the bits, unless your wanting to buy new (which has its own issues).

 

[Touring_Rob]

Also, is the first main missing an oil way drilling? Or is it just on the otherside?

 

[ripp]

Also, is the first main missing an oil way drilling? Or is it just on the otherside?

The other side 👍
As for my crank-I had the sump off last autumn for a gasket change and new crank seal and the guy that did the work said that he saw some axial play in the crank so he replaced the thrust bearings. It's just that he happened to put one of them flipped around so it damaged the crank surface facing it.
Lucky that I wanted this summer to address my oil consumption problem, did a compression test which came out not that good and went to some Renault specialists that took the engine apart for rebuild (yes it burned oil via rings and valve seals) and found out the damaged crank. They ordered a new 197 item and explained why this is the best option and that it's best to use a new crank - the safest option. It is also quite cheap so put that aside the entire cost that was a decent decision.
Plus that used 197 parts are hard to find where I live, especially an entire engine 👍

 

[Touring_Rob]

Ouch!

Sorry I didn't notice you weren't in the UK, your English is too good!

Good luck with the build, will you end up with 197 rods and pistons too?

 

[ripp]

No only the crank hopefully! Not very keen to wait for other 197 items that's for sure! 😂
The car will be a street/occasional track day vehicle so nothing extreme, I just want it to run properly and reliable that's it.
Plus the rods are "the solid ones" as the builder said, similar or the same as those found in the turbo megane mk3 rs.
Been told that not all the 1*2 range has the same rods.
The engine looked good inside, has 170 000 km on the clock with only minimal wear and tear noticeable so if it lasted so long with std internals I'm gonna go the same route.
Minus the crank for the reasons above 😊

 

[NorthloopCup]

The best crank to use is the early ph1 crank. It’s the heaviest out of the lot and looks to be forged.
That new one in your picture is the ph2 172 crank. I’d toss that in the bin as it’s not even any use as a paperweight.

I’ve only ever seen the same rods in the mk2/mk3 Clio Rs range tbh. Mk2 meg rods are ok, but not really any different to the mk2/3 items.

A lot of these claims become folklore because the internet says so. Having had all 3 types sat side by side, I can confirm no difference. Mk3 meg turbo rods I would imagine are stronger as it’s a better engine with better pistons etc, but I haven’t seen any in the flesh.

 

[ripp]

The best crank to use is the early ph1 crank. It’s the heaviest out of the lot and looks to be forged.
That new one in your picture is the ph2 172 crank. I’d toss that in the bin as it’s not even any use as a paperweight.

I’ve only ever seen the same rods in the mk2/mk3 Clio Rs range tbh. Mk2 meg rods are ok, but not really any different to the mk2/3 items.

A lot of these claims become folklore because the internet says so. Having had all 3 types sat side by side, I can confirm no difference. Mk3 meg turbo rods I would imagine are stronger as it’s a better engine with better pistons etc, but I haven’t seen any in the flesh.

ok that's not encouraging at all ( I have a ph1 172 crank from a friend but the builder says the 1st choice should always be a new crank, you can't really see defects in the metal in older items.

that above is the ph1 used crank. if i'd be 100 percent sure it has no hidden flaws i'd get it in an instant

 

[ripp]

I can confirm that my 197 crank that I have looks forged as per your earlier picture.
Here it is:
View attachment 1496981

aaaaannnnd, would you fancy selling it?

 

[gambit]

Hahaha need a forged crank for my build

aaaaannnnd, would you fancy selling it?

 

[ripp]

When did you get it? Looks like there's a chance Renault has stopped making these 😔

 

[gambit]

When did you get it? Looks like there's a chance Renault has stopped making these 😔

It came out of a second hand engine. I think that's about the only place you will be able to find one. Search a breakers yard for a short block and have it sent to a RS specialist in the UK and pay them to pull the crank out and post it to you. I doubt a breakers yard would take care to pull a crank out gently.

 

[ripp]

that could be an option but I think it would end up pretty costly for a part that is used. mind you that theoretically I can get a new item at 400 quid or so. which is in theory still available..

 

[nath&alex]

Mk3 meg turbo rods I would imagine are stronger as it’s a better engine with better pistons etc, but I haven’t seen any in the flesh.

Don’t worry we’ll “eventually” change that 😉

You could always come up and look in my parts garage 🙄

 

[NorthloopCup]

Don’t worry we’ll “eventually” change that 😉

You could always come up and look in my parts garage 🙄

Lol I’ve got enough s**t to look at in my own garage 😂😂

 

[nath&alex]

Lol I’ve got enough s**t to look at in my own garage 😂😂

😂😂

 

[ripp]

little story here:

after a couple of weeks of literally asking EVERYONE about the mistique 197 crank (ok I didn't ask the Queen, Mr Trump or Kim Jong) I have decided to end the misery of my car being torn apart for 3 months now and just get the bloody replacement crank available (not the meg 3 rs item but the one in the pics above - 8201707072 if anyone's interested which looks the same as the meg rs part)
The last drop was a phone to a local Renault dealer which also said that the 197 crank is "unavailable" For how long? Will they ever make it? No one can tell. Even Renault lol!
Grabbed the phone early this morning and ordered the "new crank" to end this. Two hours later I receive a phone call from the guy that builds my engine:
Your crank is here
I had nothing to say for like 10 seconds, and I still have a headache.
So... what he did is ordered the bloody 197 crank from 2 different other suppliers just for the "fun"of it about 20 days ago, but I had no hope in those orders after all the phones and mails I sent.
And still.. there it is, a new 197 f**in crank that took 5 years of my life in a rather short amount of time

And I am still unable to enjoy this fully , it's like faith had a good time messing with me untill it wasn't funny anymore and threw this in my face. LOL

 

[Touring_Rob]

Great result, well done!

 

[ripp]

I done nothing but praying but hey.. )

 

[Touring_Rob]