My 182 is totally standard apart from the jms induction kit and now when I put my foot down I get this really loud rumbling noise. Is this what everyone else gets because as far as I can tell there's been no increase in performance. When you put your foot down and get the extra noise it feels a bit "empty" - feels like it could have even lost some power??!! Anyone else got any ideas if there could be another problem causing this?
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fitted the jms induction kit this afternoon...
- Thread starter rs-ross
- Start date
R26
You wont get much performance increase from just an induction kit, a tiny bit, but not really enough to say 'wow thats loads more power!'.
try an open cone with heat sheld blocking engine heat.. youl be pleasantly supprised!
with my v6 box/filter setup its very similar to the jms setup..
with the airbox it has to fight with sucking the air into the 100mm hole in the side of the airbox before taking it into the inlet though the 90 elbow. where as an open cone youve got imidiate air from all sides and through the top so throttle response and torque willbe very noticiable, also moving of from a static start thers no ram air effect/or air pressure around where the hole is to force the air into the 100mm hole hence why u might feel slight los of power low down but a little bit more higher up the rpm/ speed your going
only when your moving maybe above 30mph it might feel ''better'' where as open cone is there and ready to suck in air from all angles and will feel more ''raw''
use a heat sheild though as youl suffer from heat soak..
thats only my advice and input from my expirience with induction setups..
howver some other people might have very different opinions and suggestions..
with my v6 box/filter setup its very similar to the jms setup..
with the airbox it has to fight with sucking the air into the 100mm hole in the side of the airbox before taking it into the inlet though the 90 elbow. where as an open cone youve got imidiate air from all sides and through the top so throttle response and torque willbe very noticiable, also moving of from a static start thers no ram air effect/or air pressure around where the hole is to force the air into the 100mm hole hence why u might feel slight los of power low down but a little bit more higher up the rpm/ speed your going
only when your moving maybe above 30mph it might feel ''better'' where as open cone is there and ready to suck in air from all angles and will feel more ''raw''
use a heat sheild though as youl suffer from heat soak..
thats only my advice and input from my expirience with induction setups..
howver some other people might have very different opinions and suggestions..
Yeah I knew that already mate, but if anything it feels like it could now be down a bit on power, maybe it's my imagination. Its just that deep rumbling when you put the pedal down it feels slightly sloppy rather than cleanly accelerating. I was wondering if it could be something else I might have knocked/disconnected when fitting that would a similar issue.
i know what you mean by feels like a loss of power, and no you wotn have done anything wrong with your car, im guessing your talking about acceleration from a standing start? or at low speeds then accelerating hard it feels abit dull and feels abit under power in raw acceleration?
the setup you have will 'place' the torque and hp up into midrange/high end as da has said.
the setup you have will 'place' the torque and hp up into midrange/high end as da has said.
that's the thing though Da, it doesn't feel that smooth, the deep rumbling/flapping on accleration makes it feel like it's struggling. If you imagine a vacuum cleaner with nothing blocking the nozzle, then putting something over it repeatedly to restrict how much air it sucks; that's how it feels whereas I thought it would be the opposite.
To be honest I could be imaging this or making a bigger thing out of it in my head (normally it's the opposite where you think its faster than it is! lol) but It'd be nice to see what others with the kit have experienced, and if they get the same rumbling/flapping sound.
No sorry no pics, I fitted it exactly as the directions said though.
Air box and 2x cold air feeds removed completely.
The rubber hose from airbox to inlet taken out and replaced with the jms silicon hose between inlet and new filter housing.
Breather filter with silicon hose attached on back of engine where the old rubber hose used to go.
I left the acoustic valve where it was.
Maybe finding a caf for the new filter housing could make a positive difference but in the jms thread they mentioned it would be negligible.
If you could post the graphs that would be great. I looked at the graphs on the jms thread and i have the race filter set up and that doesnt show any noticable drop in low end torque.
Air box and 2x cold air feeds removed completely.
The rubber hose from airbox to inlet taken out and replaced with the jms silicon hose between inlet and new filter housing.
Breather filter with silicon hose attached on back of engine where the old rubber hose used to go.
I left the acoustic valve where it was.
Maybe finding a caf for the new filter housing could make a positive difference but in the jms thread they mentioned it would be negligible.
If you could post the graphs that would be great. I looked at the graphs on the jms thread and i have the race filter set up and that doesnt show any noticable drop in low end torque.
Fabia vrs tdi
I fitted a k and n induction kit yesterday, had a play with a civic type are and usualy keep up no problem but not yesterday.
Mid range I reckon I've lost power but above 4.5k it feels or probably just sounds faster, maybe my ecu will need time to get used to the difference :-/
it does sound great, I'll give it a month to see how it gets on.
Mid range I reckon I've lost power but above 4.5k it feels or probably just sounds faster, maybe my ecu will need time to get used to the difference :-/
it does sound great, I'll give it a month to see how it gets on.
does this actually happen?
'RAM' air etc is all a load of twoddle, as is a lot of the fluid dynamics theory you are proposing. It only takes effect above 100mph & even then the effects are negligible on an external scoop.
Ross, the kit will certainly deliver on a car with the correct setup. However please don't expect a massive difference on a standard car. Have you used the RStuner we were discussing earlier in the week via email yet?
Increased output from a totally standard car requires a combination of factors on both sides & inside the engine. This starts with intake upgrades (as you have just carried out) and including matched inlets, through to fueling and Ignition timing adjustment (like the RStuner you have/are getting) & then exhaust changes such as a decat/catback. If you have not mapped the car yet you will still have a very limited low & early midrange output simply due to the standard emissions conscious mapping.
Any questions fire away.
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Yes, the Siemens unit on a standard RS is extremely complex, it has self learning capabilities which is why so many people bin it for more in depth upgrade work. As a unit it is significantly more powerful than any aftermarket solution, but the trade off is that it is significantly harder to access / work with / get it to behave!
Fabia vrs tdi
I got told on here ecu takes time to change the fueling - more air coming in.
I have a decat, but think a remap would help things, might get an rs tuner next month - with a standard map on the rs tuner is it set up for a standard car no induction kit?
If that makes sense
I have a decat, but think a remap would help things, might get an rs tuner next month - with a standard map on the rs tuner is it set up for a standard car no induction kit?
If that makes sense
Hi Tom,
no this is the only change that's been made from standard. I wasnt expecting a massive difference, it just feels now as if it could be slightly more sluggish which i wasnt expecting either. Is it correct that I'm getting the deep rumbling/flapping type sound when on full throttle? What effect would attaching a caf have?
e92 + E46 M3 + Cup
That test was on a ph1 172 airbox
And im assuming they were the open cone induction kits, not the jms induction set up that uses an espace v6 airbox.
No effect what so ever!
Get the RStuner on it - then you'll begin to understand how combining different aspects of an engines state of tune lifts the entire output.
im not saying its gospel and that im right, im just simply saying that might be the case wether im right or wrong, obviously wrong though!
but coming from an open cone to a setup similar to yours i felt it didnt accelerate as hard lower down the revs anymore. and yes i know its notyour setup i am using, but just using the same housing as yours and similar elbow the throttle response feels abit sluggish..
but coming from an open cone to a setup similar to yours i felt it didnt accelerate as hard lower down the revs anymore. and yes i know its notyour setup i am using, but just using the same housing as yours and similar elbow the throttle response feels abit sluggish..
Fabia vrs tdi
I'm going out for a drive, check out my throttle response.
Sure thing. Open setups have their place - look at our manifold for instance, its not a cone, but its an open filter.
You have however correctly identified the loss in output heat soak can cause. Popular belief states that every 7-8 degrees above ambient drawn into the engine is accountable for a 1% output loss on the potential figure. So in an engine bay at 30mph will have a temperature difference of about 13 degrees above ambient - 2% output loss.
You have however correctly identified the loss in output heat soak can cause. Popular belief states that every 7-8 degrees above ambient drawn into the engine is accountable for a 1% output loss on the potential figure. So in an engine bay at 30mph will have a temperature difference of about 13 degrees above ambient - 2% output loss.
Tom with regards to my comments about the sounds im getting, is this normal or not? a considerably loud rumbling/flapping sound when flooring it (sounds a bit like a helicopter) . I havent run induction kits on any of my cars before. Would using a caf quieten this down some without having an adverse effect on the air flow?
I believe the sound you are hearing is the induction roar. I had a 1.2 clio with a knn 57i on it and you could hear the roar even if you floored it in a high gear where the engine isnt revving much , however at normal cruising speeds you couldnt hear it unless you revved the nackers off it.
I think i know the feeling you mean.. I felt it with a BMC CDA.
I'd guess its the result of the venturi affect at low speed/load causing a low velocity in the high cross-sectional capactiy. The setup is more suitable for top end air flow, but at low revs the ''restrictive'' nature of the standard system suits the air flow at low revs more. (higher velocity and flow per c.s.area)
Also, being less restricitve, there is less of a pressure differential (which affects the flow).
I'm relating this to process engineering.. not necessarily automotive but the principle ares still the same..
I'd guess its the result of the venturi affect at low speed/load causing a low velocity in the high cross-sectional capactiy. The setup is more suitable for top end air flow, but at low revs the ''restrictive'' nature of the standard system suits the air flow at low revs more. (higher velocity and flow per c.s.area)
Also, being less restricitve, there is less of a pressure differential (which affects the flow).
I'm relating this to process engineering.. not necessarily automotive but the principle ares still the same..
this is what i was trying to relate to but in a really sht way lol! not sure if its correct or not for the likes of a car engine drawing in air
That's pretty much the theory I came up with when I fitted my Maxogen.
Was MUCH better after a remap.
I am still awaiting my kit to arrive, may car has custom map for cams, it isn't decat but has a 182 CAT and a remus back box for the exhaust and matched inlets in the intake., I hope I don't get this feeling, problem is my map is complete now and filter didn't make on time to have the car mapped with it, hope the car responds to it well enough.
Tom, do you tink my car would need adjusting the map?
Tom, do you tink my car would need adjusting the map?
Less
My before and after fitting the JMS kit -
Before
View attachment 39688
After
View attachment 39687
**please note, the car was not remapped after fitting the kit**
Before
View attachment 39688
After
View attachment 39687
**please note, the car was not remapped after fitting the kit**
B
Bucko
Simple answer;
Yes it is really loud/rumbly/flappy when you open the throttle right up or put the engine under load.
Yes a CAF will calm the noise down quite a bit. I have about 30cm of 102mm CAF ducting on mine and it works a treat.
Golf GT & A4 Avant
As above really, I fitted a small amount of silicone hose to take the feed from behind the headlight into the arch and it quietened it down a bit.
Clio 182 Cup FF
hi buddy, i dont really know much about cars but i fitted a pipercross induction last week and i got the same thing you did. It makes a rubble and is quite loud but dosnt seem to be any go.
If both of ours has done it i wouldnt worry, however i quite like the sound instead of the dead quite engine noise before. Also i thought it didnt seem to make any difference to the speed / accerleration
Yeah i imagine a mapped maxogen would be good..
Same thing with trumpet length on ITB's..
Laws of physics are the same everywhere
Yup. "Gods Laws" as we call them lol
steve32c
ClioSport Club Member
200T
Slap your original box back on and remove the top inlet feed, I found that more responsive and it will make a sound when you push the pedal down hard in third - however i do like the gentle rumble sound from the jms box
