FMIC efficiency, turbo-SC conversions

[Ricardos]

I was just wondering as there are a handful of people now running superchargers and turbochargers on their Clios. Do you now how efficient your intercoolers are? Have you measured the charge temps when on boost for short and longer periods of time. Do you know the pressure loss between the turbo and manifold?

 

[Yellow Dave]

thought about fitting a charge cooler. I personally think they're far better than an intercooler. A friends running one on his turbo'd 1.8 16v clio lump in in a 5 turbo shell. it never gets warm although he has fitted a larger header tank to hold more water for cooling.

What IC's are you considering?

 

[Ricardos]

1.8 F7P, is that Dales black 5? What intercooler, that's the problem I don't think any of them have been tested hence asking the question. The K Tec intercooler is also on e Bay fir a fraction of the cost, the problem is I don't want to shell out £65 up to £300 on something that givesme big pressure losses any high charge temps in the middle of a trackday. The only consolation is I'll be running low boost, yet again do I actually need a big FMIC (more lag) for say 7-8psi

 

[RSTuning]

Thats why we picked the pr-alloy setup, the core flows much better than the ebay ones!

 

[Ricardos]

Thats why we picked the pr-alloy setup, the core flows much better than the ebay ones!

Do you have a price for the pro alloy FMIC? Do you read the charge temps on the RR sessions?

 

[RSTuning]

There's no point in having that actual cooler as we had it designed as a combo. You are best going for a forge universal core with the tanks you require.

 

[mx1_champ]

i wouldnt go for the ebay universal coolers. a mate fitted one on his evo and lost power on standard the dyno operator couldnt think why until he saw the ebay cooler. if your after a IC look for a evo one as they flow very well on standard so do the landy td5 ones

 

[Yellow Dave]

No not Dales, his name is Sam and is running a Tungsten Grey shell. I'd highly recommend charge coolers if you're likely to have high temps or poor air flow. otherwise I'd consider the Forge universal IC's. Evo IC's I've seen have always been pretty big and gave a little more lag/ pressure drop. saw one on a fiesta RS turbo and it was soo big he had cooling issues.

 

[Adey.]

Nowt wrong with eBay ones, never had a problem with any of them, ill hook up the laptop and let u know my inlet temps next week sometime ric

 

[RSTuning]

Apart from the pressure drop over the core!

 

[sideways danny]

Nowt wrong with eBay ones, never had a problem with any of them, ill hook up the laptop and let u know my inlet temps next week sometime ric

I agree. Used different sizes, dozens of times and always with good results. Cars with same spec as yours had no issues with intake temps Adey, always very good. Nor retarding the ignition timing to s**t helps though lol

 

[Adey.]

But in reality he's guna see next to no drop at such low boost, were not talking a 30+psi boost monster where cooler size and flow is critical, longs it's of decent size and not actual tripe it'll do fine

 

[sideways danny]

Apart from the pressure drop over the core!

I've removed factory intercoolers that gave 5psi+ pressure drops and replaced with ebay cores to see negligable pressure drops

 

[RSTuning]

On the low boost turbo the pressure drop is pretty big on this cooler compared to a better flowing core. At the end of the day the more flow you can get the more power it will produce.

 

[Yellow Dave]

http://www.forgemotorsport.co.uk/content.asp?inc=product&PageNo=2&catalog=0013

Have a look at the 2 universal IC's, loads of fitment options and pretty compact

 

[Adey.]

On the low boost turbo the pressure drop is pretty big on this cooler compared to a better flowing core. At the end of the day the more flow you can get the more power it will produce.

This cooler? With a turbo setup I'd be looking more at the flow exhaust side as a restriction rather that the intercooler, no good getting more in if uve got a smallish turbo on the back stopping it getting out

 

[RSTuning]

Ebay core, yes i agree about the turbine but like you say low boost etc.

 

[Ricardos]

The Forge might be ok at the boost I'd be running, I've seen charge temps of nearly 60 degrees running 20psi ambient temp 25 degrees.

The turbo id be using on the conversion has a .64 rear, runs 10psi all day and good for 250bhp. Its well in the comfort zone but the last thing I want is to have run a bar just to get 7-8psi as the FMIC is so poor

 

[Adey.]

Is the difference in price between a forge and an eBay item enough to warrant the difference in cost?

 

[mx1_champ]

Is the difference in price between a forge and an eBay item enough to warrant the difference in cost?

from what i have seen yes. why make your turbo work harder when for a little more you can have a much more efficient IC. when it comes to these there cheap and expensive for a reason.

 

[Adey.]

You ever flow tested a forge and equal size cheapo one? At low flow levels you'll find next to no difference

 

[mx1_champ]

iv seen the differences on dyno from a run on a ebay to a run on a standard evo cooler.. no i havnt gone into any depth on it as its not something that concerns me atm but i have seen the differences on dyno from a run on a ebay to a run on a standard evo cooler ( on the same car )

 

[Adey.]

Fair enough, different types and shapes make a big difference too, I've seen no difference power wise from a straight through eBay one to a straight through forge one, meaning I sold the exspensive forge item and have many times over used the cheap ebay ones on nearly all my turbo cars

 

[mx1_champ]

what kinda power are we talking here tho.. im on about a 400+bhp evo.
i know a few of the lads running big power c20lets use the ebay ones and do well from that, although they no doubt would do better from a more efficient one from the like of forge etc.

 

[Adey.]

Were talking less than 300 with no more than 25psi of boost. My comments were based on this been a low boost turbo setup

 

[focrs]

I have used the eBay ones on my focus rs. They worked very well and as for pressure loss the low intake temps well make up for it. I done a r/r day and seen a drop of 30c compared to the standard cooler set up with same boost on the other guys cars there. With cooler air my car also had more power. I also reduced the pipe work which is something I think people over look when fitting custom coolers

 

[sideways danny]

I've seen charge temps of nearly 60 degrees running 20psi ambient temp 25 degrees.

That in honesty sounds like a case of using a turbo thats too small and over working it. Small turbos just turn into air warmers once they pass peak efficiency. Bigger turbo, less boost, same air flow, less heat

 

[focrs]

That in honesty sounds like a case of using a turbo thats too small and over working it. Small turbos just turn into air warmers once they pass peak efficiency. Bigger turbo, less boost, same air flow, less heat

I have seen simlar temps on charge cooled rs as the rad is to small

 

[T.Trophy]

Well I've used the ebay/ktec intercooler in both low and high pressure applications. In high pressure I measured the difference in boost between the compresor housing and the inlet and was suffering pressure drops in excess of 10psi. Now this was on a turbo that (apparently) has produced 317bhp on another clio, so we'll assume that I hadn't exceeded it's efficiency as I was only at 267bhp.

Obviously that measurement also takes into consideration the intercooler pipework.

In my eyes there cheap for a reason and whilst many people have great success with them, I haven't. The space is really limited in a clio so your much better off filling it with the highest flowing intercooler possible.

 

[focrs]

Have you tried increasing and decreasing the pipe work size through out the system to speed up the air flow? My mate is running 550 bhp out an inpreza and has a very fancy pipe work.