grand on coilies

[Italian_Job]

hi there, following the massive and embarrassing fail of my previous thread.....

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?636925-Sachs-vs-B14

I'll try to put the question in a different way, I have a cool grand to spend an a decent suspension setup.
My primary objective is the handling, something solid and not too bothered having a kick ass ride height.
I manage to gather quite a bit of info and very different views about some sets, mainly through pms abuse lol
One grand is not enough for damping adjustable AST and they might actually be a bit too much for the use I would give it and looks like the remaining options are slightly softish for track.
What would you go for?

 

[bozothenutter]

You had sachs before...that is supposed to be pretty good.
Your original post mentioned the need for increased damping...have you had the Sachs unpinned (made adjustable by removing a locking pin)
I think you might end up with a downgrade if your budget is 1K max.

there's (that I could find) :

AST
B14 (soon i gather)
Spax
Intrax

Of the above only the B14 and the spax are within your budget and only the Spax are damping adjustable.

 

[Italian_Job]

Yes that's the point, I could buy new Sachs and get em unpinned as it really looks like there's no setup under 1k as good as them.
Only option left would be Spax and tbh I didnt hear good things about those....

 

[JackJack]

Only option left would be Spax and tbh I didnt hear good things about those....

The spax set that Danny@519 sells are rated highly.

 

[bozothenutter]

and NEW Sachs will set you back more than 1K

 

[Italian_Job]

I didnt do my own research on it, just got loads of people saying, I'd rather go for Bilstein H&R reliability wise.
do you know if comes with a warranty?

 

[Italian_Job]

and NEW Sachs will set you back more than 1K

450ish each as I'd use my sportlines springs, definitely over 1k if I go for rear konis which seems sensible to me.

 

[JackJack]

I didnt do my own research on it, just got loads of people saying, I'd rather go for Bilstein H&R reliability wise.
do you know if comes with a warranty?

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?618946-Spax-Coilover-prices-172-182-for-2012

 

[Cub.]

I have b14's on mine and I think they perform excellently. Haven't tried the others though..

 

[Italian_Job]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?618946-Spax-Coilover-prices-172-182-for-2012

thanks mate

I have b14's on mine and I think they perform excellently. Haven't tried the others though..

I like Bilstein very much but I can't help thinking that I might want the adjustability at some point..........maybe I'm wrong and they are already good as they are.

 

[Jacko90]

H&R's have bilstein internals, and are highly rated, especially for road use but they are prone to rust. Bilsteins are being designed in cup fitment but they won't be adjustable in terms of damping. As said, Danny@519 have brought out some spax shocks which have two different rear setups with good feedback and very competitively priced at the moment. Might be worth trying to find someone who has that setup and see if you can get some feedback or have a go.

 

[Italian_Job]

I'll be definitely looking into it, that's the only option I haven't explored yet. thanks!

 

[Cup_Phil]

As I said on PM - I wouldn't use bilstein unless the car is standard

When I had my full interior the billies were fantastic - but I've dropped 150kg+ out the car now and they're too soft
I love the build quality of them - but I wish I could adjust the damping and crank them up a couple of clicks on stiffness

Also as soon as you put a full roll cage in and end up with 60kg in the back of the car - it's pretty much essential that you can alter the damping to match

I'd love some unpinned sachs but they're difficult to come by for a good price - AST's are awesome but very expensive
With your budget (which is same as I had) I'd be going for the new style Spax setup

Had spax adjustables on my old 106 for 5 years - never leaked

 

[stephen chadwick]

had H&R on my cup pack 182 and for ''fast road'' there good but as soon as you really start pushing it you need something better as i felt there was to much body roll (my opinion of course) and if your going to be striping the car etc you ideally want to be able to adjust your setting, as the non adjustable will be set up for the std cars weight, as i found once the rear of my car was stripped you have to be allot more awake as the rear of the car is a fair bit more happy to try and overtake you,

just ordered a set of AST's hoping there as good as everyone says

 

[Italian_Job]

the car's standard at the moment so I could consider the Bilstein, especially because its a mono-tube shock, I guess the Spax is a twin-tube?
I'd buy Sachs again but the rear dampers are quite pants unless replaced with konis, and it'd easily go over 1k.
I guess it narrows down to bilstein or spax, I'd like to have a go on them though.

 

[Italian_Job]

had H&R on my cup pack 182 and for ''fast road'' there good but as soon as you really start pushing it you need something better as i felt there was to much body roll (my opinion of course) and if your going to be striping the car etc you ideally want to be able to adjust your setting, as the non adjustable will be set up for the std cars weight, as i found once the rear of my car was stripped you have to be allot more awake as the rear of the car is a fair bit more happy to try and overtake you,

just ordered a set of AST's hoping there as good as everyone says

how much for the AST with cup fitment?

 

[JackJack]

the car's standard at the moment.

You need to know what you are going to do in the future re more mods. The spax would be more 'future proof' considering you may do more mods if you know what i mean

 

[Italian_Job]

You need to know what you are going to do in the future re more mods. The spax would be more 'future proof' considering you may do more mods if you know what i mean

Also true, its standard atm but the strip-out its very tempting and likely to happen sooner or later. Definitely Spax AST with the future in mind.
OMG thats a mine field!

 

[timmyd]

I ran H&R's for a year, and had nothing but trouble with it, I had both shocks replaced due to the piston going at the same time.
When I looked into the problem, it's a common problem.

 

[LewisTaylor]

As I said on PM - I wouldn't use bilstein unless the car is standard

When I had my full interior the billies were fantastic - but I've dropped 150kg+ out the car now and they're too soft
I love the build quality of them - but I wish I could adjust the damping and crank them up a couple of clicks on stiffness

Also as soon as you put a full roll cage in and end up with 60kg in the back of the car - it's pretty much essential that you can alter the damping to match

I'd love some unpinned sachs but they're difficult to come by for a good price - AST's are awesome but very expensive
With your budget (which is same as I had) I'd be going for the new style Spax setup

Had spax adjustables on my old 106 for 5 years - never leaked

I agree with Phil, Bilstein B14's are good, but are setup for having an interior, I'd recomend you don't blow you budget on just the coilovers, get solid front top mounts, camber bolts (if you can't adjust camber on the coilovers) and a rear whiteline ARB (if you don't have these already!)

I'm using FK Konigsports at the moment, they seem good, need to try them on track, but benefits from adjustable camber, dampening aswell as ride height.

 

[The Boosh!]

Suppose it depends on what you want to use the car for.

Bilsteins would get my vote as I wouldn't know where to start pissing about with the adjustment on them and my car is 99% a road car anyway.

If it was a balls out track car i'd be looking at AST's or similar.

 

[Italian_Job]

I ran H&R's for a year, and had nothing but trouble with it, I had both shocks replaced due to the piston going at the same time.
When I looked into the problem, it's a common problem.

thanks for the feedback mate

 

[Italian_Job]

I agree with Phil, Bilstein B14's are good, but are setup for having an interior, I'd recomend you don't blow you budget on just the coilovers, get solid front top mounts, camber bolts (if you can't adjust camber on the coilovers) and a rear whiteline ARB (if you don't have these already!)

I'm using FK Konigsports at the moment, they seem good, need to try them on track, but benefits from adjustable camber, dampening aswell as ride height.

I have camber bolts and I'll be getting an ARB later on, I just want to make I have a good base to start with.

Suppose it depends on what you want to use the car for.

Bilsteins would get my vote as I wouldn't know where to start pissing about with the adjustment on them and my car is 99% a road car anyway.

If it was a balls out track car i'd be looking at AST's or similar.

what if it'd be something in the middle, not a daily motor and quite a few track days?
joking mate, point taken.

 

[Dan519]

I'd rather go for Bilstein H&R reliability wise.
do you know if comes with a warranty?

if you want dampers that rust away and knock then go for it

 

[Chris205]

If you can be bothered, buy a set of kw variant 2's and have them machined out to accept the cup pack fitment, KW suspension is much better than bilstein, h&r and Spax.

 

[Dan519]

it's not, it's just more expensive

 

[Chris205]

From personal experience Kw is one of the best suspension kits available for the clio, or most cars tbh, I've never been in a kw'd car that felt bad

 

[Adamm.]

I cant wait to get my billies on.

 

[jamier27]

I have kw v3's on our 172 cup which the missus just uses to tootle back and from work so are wasted along with the recaro's.
Not sure if they would fit other cliosports but was goin to consider putting back to standard and get some money out of the car back.

No idea what the susp and recaro's are worth second hand tho

 

[Chris205]

Coilovers around £8-900

Recaros around £750

 

[jamier27]

Well recaro's are the evo style ones with blue trim. So prob not that valueable but very supportive and suit the blue cup.

Makes me think if its worth me puttig up a wee thread to see if anyone wants to upgrade the cup with all parts from mine as i would be happy with it standard tbh

F+r strut braces
kw v3's
evo recaro's
ktec exhuast system with decat..

For cash and standard replacement parts what kind of money 1300 + cup seats and susp??

 

[Italian_Job]

if you want dampers that rust away and knock then go for it

tbt nothing get rusted like H&R, but even so, I don't care, anything will eventually rust just wanna get the best handling product.....

If you can be bothered, buy a set of kw variant 2's and have them machined out to accept the cup pack fitment, KW suspension is much better than bilstein, h&r and Spax.

took a look at KW's but there nothing around 1 grand (could stretch to 1200) with cup fitment.

 

[Italian_Job]

I cant wait to get my billies on.

Let me know how it goes mate, are you planning to track your car?

 

[Dan519]

Spax won't rust!! They're fully stainless steel and powder coated!! also currently £799.99 (£100 off)

 

[Italian_Job]

I'm not ruling it out mate, at all.
I'm split between B14's, RSX and Sachs with konis at the rear

 

[Italian_Job]

Spax won't rust!! They're fully stainless steel and powder coated!! also currently £799.99 (£100 off)

btw do you know whats the front/rear spring rate?
how long does the warranty last?

thanks

 

[Dan519]

Speak to Rhys Beal. He runs Sachs on his 182, and he's been in and driven a spax equiped 172 on the road and on track

 

[Italian_Job]

Speak to Rhys Beal. He runs Sachs on his 182, and he's been in and driven a spax equiped 172 on the road and on track

I will! thanks

 

[Dan519]

Missed your spring rate question before. Fronts are 60Nm, rears are 40Nm

 

[Nick172Cup]

Missed your spring rate question before. Fronts are 60Nm, rears are 40Nm

Quite soft that Danny? Guessing that there obviously compromised for road and track use, is there alternative spring rates available or would they need revalving?

I'm currently building my setup as we speak...

Sachs front - Koni's rear.
AST topmounts
Whiteline ARB

Unsure of springs though, MF springs are too expensive to consider them but the Sportlines seem the norm ATM. Thinking about trying a couple of other springs to see how they work.

Think what people have to remember is it's all about having fun. Having driven before on the FK Konigsports it made you quite quick around a track bit the fun almost dies then. I've driven a setup close to what I'm building and found it to be über fun on track yet still quick, then I've got the adjustability to soften everything up for the drive home in comfort.