Handling - Willy Vs 16v

[Ben H]

Cheers Matty. Im not 100% on the tyre story thing as discussed above, but Id like to stick to what works on my car at the minute.

The Michelin HXs on at the moment are definitely the best tyres Ive had so far (and Ive had lots, on other cars admittedly). So I want to stay with what I know and get the closest thing available.

 

[Matty]

<A name=a3126>Michelin 185/55R15 XH1 81H

 

[Matty]

Above from Topgear

https://www.topgear.co.uk/acatalog/Mitchelin.html">https://www.topgear.co.uk/acatalog/Mitchelin.html

Again might be the right tyre but youd best check against your tyre sidewall to try and make sure one is correct.

Hopefully stillavailable and probably worth getting a few if that good on the Williams as they will e in demand by purists when the Willy does obtain proper classic status.

I still think some other, newer, tyres may be preferable but without trying them it is hard to say what works best. Cheapest and safest option is to stick with what you know.

 

[u33db]

Erm...slightly off topic but what tyres (manufacturer/model) were phase 1 valvers suppossed to run as standard? Im convinced my 195/50 dont have as much "feel" sod be interested to switch back....

 

[007]

My 185/55s take a certain stretch (very bumpy and twisty) of road near where I live over 10mph faster than the 195/50s can. The 195s make the ride too harsh too get over 100mph on a straight the 185s managed no problem. I am bascially slower along most of the 5 miles to loch ness with the 195s.

On the other hand on smoother A roads the 195s are miles better - I get loads more grip than I did with the 185s and as im mainly on A roads im happy.

 

[Nick Read]

LOL well when I saw 6 pages of this thread I ignored the whole lot and Ill just stick to the question. Im not gonna get technical, just tell you what I think.

My own valvers had standard Renault suspension, then a mildly dropped Koni setup and currently a Gaz coilover set on softer than standard springs. And Ive driven a couple of standard Williams. The standard valver setup is ok for the car and you can drive pretty fast, pretty confident with it. The Koni setup was a noticeable improvement with no downsides in ride quality whatsoever, but great improvements in driving feel. The Gaz setup is very dependent on spring rate, I had a pair of stiffer springs which were too much, had the valver skipping around all over the shop. Now with the softer springs its much better but the coilover approach is a compromise for the everyday driver without a doubt. As long as you dont mind a hard ride theyre good though.

Driving a Williams you get the impression of a very well rounded car. You can just chuck it about a lot more than you could a valver, and the feel of a standard Willy was, to me, most like a valver on a mild drop and slightly stiffer suspension. Which basically, it is. I wouldnt mess with Willy suspension unless I was gonna be doing a lot of track driving, it seemed to be perfectly setup for B-road driving.

 

[2 live]

Quote: Originally posted by crono33 on 19 February 2004

surely a williams can be marginally improved for road use, at a cost, in terms of money and usability. on another note, body roll doesnt mean the car grips less. body roll can worsen the turn in, but can ultimately lead to overall better performances. remember, you will lose a lot of time when the car get unsettled by that pothole.

Quote: Originally posted by 2 live on 19 February 2004


yes mate i see wot ur saying.............but



when reno introduced the williams the testing crew gave their verdicts on how it handled etc, and it was, i take it, an average set up for all its test drivers, some may have wanted it a bit stiffer etc but we werent there an i dont know anyone who was so i cant say for sure

wot i can say tho is that on the old original set up it leaned quite a lot in the corners,which always un-nerves me i dont know bout anyone else, so the logical thing to do (after one of the springs broke) was to upgrade slightly to a more adjustable setup, seeing as tho i like to have more than 1 setup cos i use it for more than 1 thing,while doin this it also got rid of a lot of the lean thru the corners and felt safer at higher speeds........u know the kinda corners, the 1s you know how fast u can take while still being in control,and my favourite corner is taken a good 5-10 mph faster now than standard.i admit it has made it a little more unsettled on the really bumpy roads, but i tend not to drive a lot of them.

when i had both of my williams it was always the least standard car i drove, why? cos i prefer how it drives/handles, it suits me more than standard set up............all imo

i think to really prove 1 way or the other u need to experiment ........which is what ive done and i have benefitted from it. but again this is all down to my personal preferance.........i dunno maybe its jus me gettin more used to it or wot, but when iv found the limits a few times i want to upgrade and test again for the limits.which is why iv also altered the fantastic engine...........simply because it felt slow..................which as most ppl on this forum know, it aint slow, but felt it to me cos im used to it

hehe lose time when i hit the potholes???????



i know where they all are on the roads drive a lot so i can avoid them while still bein flat out lol......when u have a stiff car u seem to learn the roads as a biker does.....i.e take this bend wide cos theres a grate/pothole/rough tarmac on the inside

costwise......for the avo setup it wasnt much dearer than an oe brand new setup......so for a few extras quid y not upgrade instead of jus replace



gettin back to the tyres tho....the pilot hxs are excellent tyres.......but not the best for the willy all the time......i.e how many rally williams have u seen tackling a forest stage with pilot hx tyres fitted?

how many tracks in the dry/wet?

the pilot is a good medium for the road, quite prob the best tyre avaliable at the time (as an all rounder), but no more

 

[Matty]

Quote: Originally posted by darswold on 14 November 2003


the reason i ask about the tyres is because the original willys came with michelin mxv3 185/55 x 15 rubber but on your pictures they are pirellis.

if this was the real much sought after no.1 why change the rubber after after 21 miles ?

cheers

darswold

Interesting in light of the michelin is original scenario. Slight contradiction me thinks. Not sure if King can remember this.

 

[jimbo]

i read the first 5 pages, the 6th was a page too far, my opinions are these, and i dont care if i upset any1, and i dont even need a knowledge of anything to make this judgement...

BenR has 14 years of motorsport background, he works in teh industry, hes been playing with cars since before you could probably drive king.stromba (i have no idea how old you are tho)

king.stromba you have made posts in the past about how to improve willy handling. since then all you have done is write letters, and now youre an expert! i think its safe to say you havent spoken directly to the entire design team of the williams and asked why they did what they did, so you have no right whatsoever to make a judgement on that car, practical experience gets you knowledge, reading letters and books will only make you a know-it-all who has no idea how these systems work in the real world

handling is a preference, not a scientific formula, or a list of parts, get over your car, its a classic, its a collectors edition, its not a supercar, its not a race car! you need to pull your head out your arse and listen to the ppl who know what theyre talking about, and theres been a few reply here, you should listen to what they said, you will definitely learn a thing or 2!!

as for stan*, your knowledge is based upon a degree course, so youve been reading books too. wait til youve got your degree, and have been in the industry for a few years putting the formulae to practice, youll soon find that the real world is very different to what they teach you, theres only so much that can be done on paper, the rest has to be done on the track (or road, or wherever the car is intended for)

theres too many ppl replying on here thinking they know everything there is to know, so far ive only spotted 2 ppl who actually speak any sense at all, and have a subjective non-biassed view over this, the rest seem to think renault are the greatest manufacturer ever, go and post that on a peugeot 205 GTi forum and youll see them exactly how i see you!

take offence if you like, i doubt youll take any notice of what i said at all, and youll reply telling me how silly i am and asking how i have the right to say what i have

oh well,
JIM

 

[stan*]

do u not think that there is a practical side 2 wot i learn, so that the paper stuff is actually proven?? do u not think that i build cars? do u not think that i have work for teams on placements?

 

[william]

One thing crossed to my mind ... As said above, its classic etc...BUT it really isnt SO special. If it was, they would do it somehow different than fitting R19 wishbones for example. Actually it has very little UNIQUE in it. Many parts are from different R:s, not actually made just for Williams. Everyone knows this, but hasnt mentioned it here for some reason...

 

[king.stromba]

Quote: Originally posted by jimbo on 22 February 2004


i read the first 5 pages, the 6th was a page too far, my opinions are these, and i dont care if i upset any1, and i dont even need a knowledge of anything to make this judgement...

BenR has 14 years of motorsport background, he works in teh industry, hes been playing with cars since before you could probably drive king.stromba (i have no idea how old you are tho)

king.stromba you have made posts in the past about how to improve willy handling. since then all you have done is write letters, and now youre an expert! i think its safe to say you havent spoken directly to the entire design team of the williams and asked why they did what they did, so you have no right whatsoever to make a judgement on that car, practical experience gets you knowledge, reading letters and books will only make you a know-it-all who has no idea how these systems work in the real world

handling is a preference, not a scientific formula, or a list of parts, get over your car, its a classic, its a collectors edition, its not a supercar,



I think this picture sums up just how high a regard experts hold the Williams in. This car can compete with the best on the right roads.

http://www.p1woc.co.uk/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1680&highlighthttp://www.p1woc.co.uk/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1680&highlight=



its not a race car! you need to pull your head out your arse and listen to the ppl who know what theyre talking about, and theres been a few reply here, you should listen to what they said, you will definitely learn a thing or 2!!

as for stan*, your knowledge is based upon a degree course, so youve been reading books too. wait til youve got your degree, and have been in the industry for a few years putting the formulae to practice, youll soon find that the real world is very different to what they teach you, theres only so much that can be done on paper, the rest has to be done on the track (or road, or wherever the car is intended for)

theres too many ppl replying on here thinking they know everything there is to know, so far ive only spotted 2 ppl who actually speak any sense at all, and have a subjective non-biassed view over this, the rest seem to think renault are the greatest manufacturer ever, go and post that on a peugeot 205 GTi forum and youll see them exactly how i see you!

take offence if you like, i doubt youll take any notice of what i said at all, and youll reply telling me how silly i am and asking how i have the right to say what i have

oh well,
JIM

 

[jimbo]

so what? the "experts" have opinions like every1 else

its not a supercar, and wether you like it or not, its an opinion! ive never driven one, i dont know if id like it or not, but i know that everything in cars is an opinion or a preference, thus your entire argument in this thread is biassed crap

my MR2 is meant to be one of the best handling road cars of its time, and sure its brilliant, the "experts" at the time loved it, but i know i can make it a zillion times better

and dont start telling me my car isnt in the same league as yours, it most definitely is, i wont be as bold as sayin it handles better cos im not that arrogant, and i respect the williams as a mighty fine car, i know its faster than me, but im just proving that your opinion isnt a law, ppl can do what they like to their car, and they CAN improve it! performance is a preference, michael schumacher wouldnt win grand prixs in a car setup for kimi raikonnen, dont say otherwise as you have no way of proving it, and never will

anyways, im not here to argue, i just wanted to state a point, and stan, im doing motorsport engineering myself this september, looking to go to either coventry or brunel, ive been accepted by both where are you studying?