How the 197 Cup should be...

[Englebert]

I have been reading TRCs article on the 197 Cup (race car) Clio. They make a big thing of that Renault is willing to sell the car to anyone (not just people who plan to race it) for just over £20k.

The race car includes the Sadev box, bolt in cage, fancy dash and other little bits that would obviously never make it as a production car. I wonder what this little lot would cost combined?

It got me thinking, the Cup racer has minor engine changes (205bhp), coilovers, LSD, stronger subframe and bigger ARB on the front, with ball joints on the rear. TRC magazine says the result is "perfect." So why not offer all of these changes as a road-going 197 Cup? No real additional development cost is needed (racers are at the same factory aren't they?), so you could forsee it being only a couple of grand more than the normal 197...

If they did a limited run of 500 this would probably exceed the total amount of race cars, so surely make finanical sense for Renault?

Come on Jeremy, poke Renault HQ for us!

 

[Fred@BTM]

£20,500 + VAT

i believe they've all been sold

 

[alexbleubolt]

yes, would be lovely, i like the 197 cup, and would buy it for sure, if it had the stickers and also came in that meg 230 purple, instead of the yellow, but its hot, and perfectly low, and makes me squirm

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

lot of money that could buy you more, imo of course!

 

[Englebert]

But dude, a Golf GTI costs £20k. I know it's 'just a Clio' but it's still a relative bargain.

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

fair point but for 20k you could get a...

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/105015.htm

or

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/104912.htm

and kick everyone's arse!

 

[Josh@Renparts]

fair point but for 20k you could get a...

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/105015.htm

or

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/104912.htm

and kick everyone's arse!

the point is you are missing the point. in that case who would buy a new golf over that? becuase they want a golf and its new.... some people want a clio thats new..its all relative..

 

[Fred@BTM]

you couldn't drive a cup racer on the road, the suspension is WAY too hard

 

[Englebert]

LOL. Slightly mad comparisons there Chrissy, what about every day usability and that little word insurance?!

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

A clio racer is a track car, an exige racer is a track car. Both road legal, both the same price.

I was comparing the costs of what you you get for the same money, as a track car/toy which they both are.

Granted a little extreme as a comparison. Not sure you can compare a road going golf to a track clio.

 

[Fred@BTM]

cup racers aren't road legal

 

[Englebert]

Then you haven't read my full post, i'm not saying it should be a road legal 197 Cup Racer, just a 197 with some of the bits (better suspension, LSD and 205hp engine).

 

[Fred@BTM]

god yeah, i'm waiting on them doing a clio 210 trophy cup pack

 

[Mr Melon]

Then you haven't read my full post, i'm not saying it should be a road legal 197 Cup Racer, just a 197 with some of the bits (better suspension, LSD and 205hp engine).

I think if they just managed to lighten the car alot of people would be happy, but yeah suspension, LSD and a bit more power would also go down nicely im sure!

 

[Ollie82.]

I want one....rock hard suspension, LSD, Sequential Gearbox, the lot.
It looks how the 197 should look (check the avatar) and is the correct weight as well...the 197 is way too fatty bombatty

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

still looks like a micra, but that's just my opinion!

cars are too big and heavy nowadays. we have the last of a dying breed.

 

[Ollie82.]

Amen to that.

Im rather fond of mine now that i know the "new and improved" clio is just big, heavier and slower

 

[Grant_172]

fair point but for 20k you could get a...

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/105015.htm

or

http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/104912.htm

and kick everyone's arse!

the point is you are missing the point. in that case who would buy a new golf over that? becuase they want a golf and its new.... some people want a clio thats new..its all relative..

I could go out and spend 400 pound on a fast old shed and kick everyones arse. My mate has just bought a bargain astra gte needs some bodywork but its got a 2.0 red top in with new cams head wok and throttle boddies on it, he only paid 450 for it, i drove it then drove my 182 and my car felt gutless

 

[Ollie82.]

Yeah but its an ASTRA GTE...yuck.
And it'll either be (or has been) stolen or stopped by the police everytime you drive past them.

 

[Jeremy Townsend]

I have been reading TRCs article on the 197 Cup (race car) Clio. They make a big thing of that Renault is willing to sell the car to anyone (not just people who plan to race it) for just over £20k.

The race car includes the Sadev box, bolt in cage, fancy dash and other little bits that would obviously never make it as a production car. I wonder what this little lot would cost combined?

It got me thinking, the Cup racer has minor engine changes (205bhp), coilovers, LSD, stronger subframe and bigger ARB on the front, with ball joints on the rear. TRC magazine says the result is "perfect." So why not offer all of these changes as a road-going 197 Cup? No real additional development cost is needed (racers are at the same factory aren't they?), so you could forsee it being only a couple of grand more than the normal 197...

If they did a limited run of 500 this would probably exceed the total amount of race cars, so surely make finanical sense for Renault?

Come on Jeremy, poke Renault HQ for us!

SOunds great. Fred - they're not all sold, you can still swap your Vee for one

 

[Munson]

So Jeremy, what can you tell us about future versions of the 197? Will there be one with the pace to match it's ability? I doubt you're able to answer that question, but I wish Renault felt that you could, and should, because from where I'm standing, my cheque book thinks you guys are just hoping we buy a 197, and then another one when you unveil the next iteration.

History repeating itself?

 

[Munson]

Saying that, I do love that Renaultsport evolve their products. But this time it just seems a bit too staged. 130mph? Come on FFS my 8v Pug 306Xsi can almost match that Granted I don't often do 140+

 

[Iain C]

cb...i think your pushing for a car that not many people want.
From what ive seen from the 197 its a great car already.
Im sure there will be plenty of after mkt suspension upgrades for it soon if you feel it needs them.
I think the 172/182s major selling points was the price. 20k+ for some road racer is a bit ott esp as the speed limit is 70 in the uk

 

[Munson]

Basically if you took a Cup racer out on our roads, you'd be pulling into your nearest A&E with a shattered spinal column and bits of splitter and sump on your back seat. Much like how mine was delivered to me with my splitter in a plastic bag on my back seat ffs.

 

[Jeremy Townsend]

So Jeremy, what can you tell us about future versions of the 197? Will there be one with the pace to match it's ability? I doubt you're able to answer that question, but I wish Renault felt that you could, and should, because from where I'm standing, my cheque book thinks you guys are just hoping we buy a 197, and then another one when you unveil the next iteration.

History repeating itself?

The next development will be a stiffer suspension option. On the 182, the Cup suspension option was taken by most customers but I don't think that this will be the case for the 197 as the standard set up is very good. As for a 'cup' version, that's still being considered. There's no great weight saving that can be made. There's no plan for any more power.

 

[Munson]

esp as the speed limit is 70 in the uk

tbh my speed limit is 140, gps verified. As I've hinted at before, I breath special German air that makes my 140mph ethically & morally acceptable.

 

[Munson]

There's no plan for any more power.

Megane 270 it is then Danka

EDIT: Or perhaps a Focus ST3 also chipped...

 

[Munson]

On the 182, the Cup suspension option was taken by most customers but I don't think that this will be the case for the 197 as the standard set up is very good.

I'm with you on that mate, the 197 I drove felt totally planted. It cornered very flat and the grip levels were astonishing. Moreover, while equally as firm as my 182Cup, it soaked up the road far better. Suspension masterwork IMO. Turn in was razor sharp and never hinted at becoming under steer, although obviously it could be provoked if you cant drive. Only the slight lack of steering feel annoyed me, but it did weight up nicely and feel quite chunky when pressing hard. I also got the back end out and it felt very controllable. Perhaps with so much grip it may be a bit harsh when it's broken, but I certainly didn't think that based on my drive in one.

I closed the drivers door feeling gutted, thinking it was so superb in every way but felt SLOW. Please listen to your potential buyers dude (pass on these views). I'd have bought a 197 3-4 months ago if it at least felt as quick as my 182 and I feel so would many others have done. I think you guys know it isn't selling too well and I think you know why. You need to rethink the Megane vs. Clio marketing IMO. I know I sound like a broken record but FFS sort it out! LoL

PS. Yes, the salesman did change his pants when we returned to the forecourt.

 

[Englebert]

I just don't see why there couldn't be a 205hp Cup when it already exists. Renault have already done the development. There is already an LSD for the Megane, so why not have one for the Clio? Have slightly revised suspension, and the optional Recaros as standard and bingo, there is the 197 Cup/Trophy!

 

[Jeremy Townsend]

I just don't see why there couldn't be a 205hp Cup when it already exists. Renault have already done the development. There is already an LSD for the Megane, so why not have one for the Clio? Have slightly revised suspension, and the optional Recaros as standard and bingo, there is the 197 Cup/Trophy!

The engine on the Cup race car is the same apart from a different airbox, ECU, and throttle valve. It also has no cat.

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I just don't see why there couldn't be a 205hp Cup when it already exists. Renault have already done the development. There is already an LSD for the Megane, so why not have one for the Clio? Have slightly revised suspension, and the optional Recaros as standard and bingo, there is the 197 Cup/Trophy!

You "could" increase the limiter by 1000rpm and then map accordingly on a normal 197... Don't expect it to last very long though..

Remember there are loads of balances.

Power vs. Reliability is one of them.

Not test driven a 197 yet, perhaps tomorrow if I'm bored..

 

[Weeman]

There was a handful at the ring the other week, they sounded lovely.

 

[lewisniven]

[qoute]The next development will be a stiffer suspension option. On the 182, the Cup suspension option was taken by most customers but I don't think that this will be the case for the 197 as the standard set up is very good. As for a 'cup' version, that's still being considered. There's no great weight saving that can be made. There's no plan for any more power.[/quote]

time to take a leaf out of the mini gp's book then. Strip that back seat out and stick a strut brace in, lose the spare wheel, strip the abs, cruise control and 6 disc autochanger out as well. Lose the xenon headlamps and put standards in. Stick a carbon fibre bonnet on there and boom, uve just lost urself a fair few KG's.

Do i get my job at dieppe now?

 

[Rich]

On the 182, the Cup suspension option was taken by most customers but I don't think that this will be the case for the 197 as the standard set up is very good.

I'm with you on that mate, the 197 I drove felt totally planted. It cornered very flat and the grip levels were astonishing. Moreover, while equally as firm as my 182Cup, it soaked up the road far better. Suspension masterwork IMO. Turn in was razor sharp and never hinted at becoming under steer, although obviously it could be provoked if you cant drive. Only the slight lack of steering feel annoyed me, but it did weight up nicely and feel quite chunky when pressing hard. I also got the back end out and it felt very controllable. Perhaps with so much grip it may be a bit harsh when it's broken, but I certainly didn't think that based on my drive in one.

Never felt there was a problem with the standard chassis on my test drive either, very composed, gripped and held the road well. Even when nailing it hard to the limiter in first and second no fuss or torque steer. It was the over light/sensitive steering and the vague/lack of feel of that the front wheels where doing ala CTR that where the problem for me, I doubt a cup suspension option will sort this?

 

[Munson]

I wonder, does the Cup racer use hydraulic PAS?

 

[yellow182jon]

any performance figures

 

[Lagerlout]

I wonder, does the Cup racer use hydraulic PAS?

Good question.

Yet to drive the 197, but the missus's 1.4 Mk3 Clio Steering is f**king woeful. It tries too hard to self-centre - There's lots of resistance just around centre then all resistance just suddenly disappears. Quite unerving at first!!

 

[Jeremy Townsend]

I wonder, does the Cup racer use hydraulic PAS?

No, it's electric

 

[Jeremy Townsend]

[qoute]The next development will be a stiffer suspension option. On the 182, the Cup suspension option was taken by most customers but I don't think that this will be the case for the 197 as the standard set up is very good. As for a 'cup' version, that's still being considered. There's no great weight saving that can be made. There's no plan for any more power.

time to take a leaf out of the mini gp's book then. Strip that back seat out and stick a strut brace in, lose the spare wheel, strip the abs, cruise control and 6 disc autochanger out as well. Lose the xenon headlamps and put standards in. Stick a carbon fibre bonnet on there and boom, uve just lost urself a fair few KG's.

Do i get my job at dieppe now?[/QUOTE]

!!

The ABS can't go but it sounds excellent. £22K, same as the GP ?

 

[Munson]

Bummer, that means the 197 is never going to have any better steering feel than it has now. It's a LOT better than a CTR imo but not as good as the 182