K4M 1.6 16v Thermal Intake Gasket

[hill_power_clio]

Hi All;

Following the success of the 172/182 thermal intake gasket sets I was contacted by mini-valver to help him on his K4M project.

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=281664

Due to his (as many of you know) mental throttle body setup we were able to produce a 3mm PTFE thermal intake gasket for his car which he will (hopefully) be leaving feedback on shortly. :clap:

Apologies for the crap photo !

Obviously we now have the CAD drawing for the gasket so are able to produce them for any other K4M owners but first we would need to trial the gasket. mini-valvers was a one-off special at that thickness due to the throttle body setup - of course anybody can have at that thickness or upto 5mm, though 3mm is best all round value for performance/money.

I predict using the std inlet with std studs etc will mean a thinner gasket (on the 172 setups for instance we used 1.5mm and 1mm gaskets) but ideally we need somebody willing to trial fit and confirm thickness for us.

We would supply a series of plastic gaskets (non-ptfe) just for trialling purposes, generally 1mm,2mm,3mm and there abouts. In an ideal world we want a direct replacement gasket (like the 172/182 versions) for the OEM version - i.e. no additional filing down of the inlet to make room for a thicker gasket, but of course the thicker the gasket the better it can reduce the heat soak.

If anybody would be interested in helping us trial the gasket ranges to find a suitable thickness then it would be appreciated and we may be able to come arrangement on price, etc for that person. drop me a PM.

Once the thickness has been confirmed we will be in a position to produce these in a similar format to the 172s in the For Sale thread and at a minimum order of about x5 get them at a very good rate.

thanks in advance and have a good weekend

 

[BioHzrd]

If itll go on the Mk3 1.6 ill have one ! price dependant ! Drop me a PM with a phone number and i can give you a call on sat if you like ?

 

[mini-valver]

You'll need to trial fit it the different thicknesses mate because too thick and the plenum wont line up with the breather!

Chris is a top bloke, cant fault him.

 

[ben lee]

pm sent

 

[hill_power_clio]

mini-valver; cheers mate!

Ben Lee - will reply to PM ASAP mate with details.

BioHzrd - duno about Mk3 would have to look into it.. no fitting details as yet; still working on the project really. If you could investigate if the Mk2 and Mk3 share the same gasket then we should be able to do something together.

Thanks for the replies all - good news and should be able to get these up and running in little time.

 

[Chrisjk]

What benifits would this do to my near std engine?

 

[clio_mad]

Without sounding stupid, what are the benefits of these over the standard items?

 

[mini-valver]

Much cooler inlet temps, which in theory equates to more power. Far better mod than a panel filter IMO. Breathing mods will definately benefit from these

 

[hill_power_clio]

If you look on the 172 gasket thread you will see lots of info, various comments and also graphs showing the sort of results you can see… positive certainly!
Bearing in mind the 172 sets utilise gaskets at a very similar thickness to standard due to the inlet setup / restrictions you could potentially see even greater gains dependant on the thickness we can get away with for the K4M.
Optimum for price / performance is 3mm – this is what I have used on GTIR / T5 / Williams, 16v, etc. setups and also good results. Some GTIR boys even use 5mm but this takes a long time to cut (on the laser) and material is quite expensive.

The theory behind it all is the head can’t transfer the heat from the engine into the inlet manifold easily because PTFE doesn’t conduct the heat so doesn’t allow it to pass through. Obviously the cooler you can keep the inlet, the cooler the air, the cooler the air the bigger the bang which in return means more bwaarrrpp (power). You aren’t really gaining any power (like fitting an exhaust) but what you are doing is optimizing what you car could do – and with other people not doing this mod your car will be faster – if you see what I mean!

PTFE also has a very high unstable temp figure meaning the gaskets should never deform and so can be reused, as well as being more hard wearing than standard items as they can’t be affected by oil / fuel and high vibrations which could be caused by high revving, aftermarket pipes, hard (or very worn) engine mounts and so on.

Anything else you need let me know but the idea speaks for itself and the results do show the theory works – at least in every application we have tried so far; with the K4M having that bit extra space around the engine in comparison to the 172 I do have strong hopes certainly!

Cheers

 

[hill_power_clio]

ben lee - you have PM reply mate - nice one

 

[fast5]

could these cope with exhaust side of things... eg. the dual inlet/ex gasket on a c1j?

 

[hill_power_clio]

Difficult to say mate; they should be able to cope upto about 200degrees celcius - at 5mm thick maybe more I don't know... we do use the best grade available but I wouldn't like to be definite on this.

I could let you trial but would have to be your decision. C1j being?>

 

[Chrisjk]

Difficult to say mate; they should be able to cope upto about 200degrees celcius - at 5mm thick maybe more I don't know... we do use the best grade available but I wouldn't like to be definite on this.

I could let you trial but would have to be your decision. C1j being?>

Renault 5

 

[hill_power_clio]

thought as much - had someone else enquire about R5 stuff before.

like i say would be willing to let someone have a go but it seems like hardwork.... unless you can use half and half?

 

[Chrisjk]

What sort of price would we be looking at please?

 

[hill_power_clio]

for the R5 or the K4M?

I honestly don't see how you can do the R5 one - it would just melt using an exhaust all in one.

K4M in 3mm you'll be looking approx £25-30 del'd.

thinner gaskets mean less price of course as cheaper material.

 

[hill_power_clio]

ben lee is now going to do trialling for us - confirmed. we will be sending out trial gaskets in 1,2 and 3mm, cut on Wednesday for delivery by Thurs/Fri hopefully.

Is happy to do a write up for you all as well once we have confirmed fitment....

obviously a big thank you to him on my behalf.

 

[fast5]

yeah c1j is renault 5 engine, would be interested to see if they can cope, the std one is metal reinforced cardboard

if its something that is possible, let me know, my engine is far from std, so wouldn't be a great test, but could be interesting, especially as the inlet is over the exhaust, anything to help lower charge temps is a bonus.

 

[hill_power_clio]

I can't really say if it possible mate - having never seen one, owned one, etc I couldn't say. best thing for you to do is go away, have a think and let me know what you come up with - PTFE can probably hack around 200celcius but exhausts will get that; it will need to be thick with some sort of divider i'd guess - how you'd do it I don't know.

drop me a PM so we dont clutter up the thread.

 

[Fred@BTM]

can you not ceramic coat the bits on the R5 (expensive i realise)

 

[fast5]

yeah thats one possibility... my budget only stretched to heat wrapping the entire manifold, which has reduced underbonnet temps a bit but we shall see next dyno day as its all i've changed since the last runs

 

[Oliver_K4M]

Do you think you will have the same effect on a K4M with stock intakemanifold, as it as molded from polyamide and not aluminium like the RS??

 

[hill_power_clio]

Is it really? I wasn't aware of that... it will make a difference but not as great as the alu RS ones. The only way to know will to trial one and see where we stand after. Afterall it is only a small amount to pay and in the true tradition of the 106 rallye forum - every little helps!

 

[Oliver_K4M]

The upper (including the plenum) section is polyamide, the lower is also alu, but it´s compared to the rest small.
I agree, you have to test it. I think with minivalver´s manifold it will be really an improvement, it´s totally made of aluminium...

 

[hill_power_clio]

If the lower (alu) is the manifold to head gasket then this is the one we are interested in and will make a difference for sure.

 

[Oliver_K4M]

It´s pretty short, also compared to Williams, R5 and other manifolds....what screws will you use? Also PTFE?

Faith will move mountains...

 

[hill_power_clio]

We could use different bolts or just some ptfe washers - lets see what ben comes back with.


Ben - sent to you today 3mm foamex, plus various 1mm cardboard examples so you can build up the layers to find the perfect thickness. send 1st class so you should recieve tomrorow mate - let me know your findings. nice one

 

[ben lee]

cool will get playing when its all here.

 

[mini-valver]

Mine came today, gonna crack on and fit them later. Brilliant quality!


You're right Chris, I have no idea which is the imperfected one LOL!

 

[hill_power_clio]

thanks mate - no problem!

glad you are pleased with the quality!

 

[hill_power_clio]

ben - any update for us?

 

[mini-valver]

If anyone wants to see the gasket fitted (albeit not on a standard manifold, theres a few pics on my project thread. It's hard to tell wether it's made it any better but it certainly feels much keener. When you drive the car hard on a cold day, it feels like that even after being running for a few hours.

 

[hill_power_clio]

mv - dimensions mate?!

 

[hill_power_clio]

ben lee hasn't come back to us for a while following us sending him some trial gaskets...

I may have to look elsewhere for someone to help us - anyone willing drop me a PM.

 

[mini-valver]

It might be worth mentioning that these will fit the 1.4 K4J engine aswell Chris

 

[MarcoB]

Will they fit an rxe? You might have to explain again what these are as in the op it sounded like its for ITB'ed cars?

 

[mini-valver]

RXEis the 1.6 8v, right? If so, no they wont.

Chris needs someone with a standard 1.4/6 16v to test different thicknesses for fitting. When the person gets the fitting right, give Chris the thickness and thesecan be made in bulk at that thickness to suit standard inlet cars.

 

[hill_power_clio]

as the man says!

 

[hill_power_clio]

I am now in need of someone to trial again - people who were helping have gone quiet!

 

[hill_power_clio]

anyone?!