KTR Coilovers, waddya reckon?

[t0mmy]

Hello CS'ers..

Who has had experience with these? http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2853&appid=2

In the research stage of uprating my suspension on the Cup. I know there is massive recommendation for new cup shocks with cooksports however for the same price range the above can be purchased too.

Thoughts/Experiences?

 

[MarkX]

I considered them, but searching on here and seeing the horrific reviews I just went with new cup dampers, wishbones and cooksport springs. Cheap coilovers are generally false economy.

 

[Chip-mk1]

What is more important to you? If its quality damping and good handling, then go for new cups shocks and cooksports, if its "mad lowz init blud" then get cheap coilovers.

Bear in mind that the ktec rubbish IIRC are just 200 quid raceland coilovers plus a huge chunk of Ktax though.

I believe the raceland version are now hard to get hold of though as Ktec have some sort of exclusive which blocks people selling them at the proper price and allows them to sell their KTR stickered up ones for twice as much.

 

[MartinR]

As said by chip above.

Better off getting standard items

 

[scott.p]

If it was just a 1.2 that you wanted some 'lowz' for then they would be ok, however as you have a 172 why would you want to ruin its best feature, its handling.

 

[Daniel]

KTR coilovers are dreadful on track. Way too soft.

Seeing as you call your car a track car then buying the cheapest suspension isn't a good idea.

 

[Luigi172]

What's people's opinion on the Gaz 4 coilover setup on the for sale section?

 

[Chi]

Gaz are very good and bonus is refurb are uber cheap.. Weeksy

 

[Chip-mk1]

Gaz gold are good. The cheaply gaz aren't bad.

 

[david1987]

Ive not had any experience with these particular coilovers, however from experience with previous cheap coilovers on cars in the past i would say avoid cheap ones. I bought a cheap set for a Bmw i had in the past and they were awful.

 

[Chip-mk1]

The worst thing about the KTR ones is that they are VERY cheap in terms of quality (its a 200 quid set normally without the KTR sticker on it) but marked up so much that they look like they should be a mid range item almost.

 

[Luigi172]

Gaz gold are good. The cheaply gaz aren't bad.

Do you think it a worth while upgrade from cup shocks/cooksports to those Gaz coilovers for sale?

 

[MarkX]

Do you think it a worth while upgrade from cup shocks/cooksports to those Gaz coilovers for sale?

I wouldn't, gaz, Bc and whatever the next flavour of the month will be are best left alone. I'd wait for the newer Gaz to either be reliable or revert to type with extended use

 

[Chip-mk1]

Do you think it a worth while upgrade from cup shocks/cooksports to those Gaz coilovers for sale?

For handling in general, no I dont think it is having tried both, there isnt really anything in it, for the convenience of being able to alter damping rate and spring rates for different tracks, and altering heights to corner weight though, then yes it is.

So it depends if you want something to just fit and forget, in which case stay where you are, or if you want something to tweak to suit different tracks etc.

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

Hi gents just reading your thread and have a question. I have a 182 rally car and I'm looking at Gaz coil overs all round. Someone selling them on ebay said that coil overs will fit on the rear so replacing the rear dampers. Has anybody done this? will it actually work? I asked him for the diameter of the Gaz rears and from what he says they will physically fit. But does this then mean I need to get rid of the rear beam springs? I think it probably does. Any advice gratefully received.

 

[robjohnsonrallying]

This link will take you to the page for the rear coil overs - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201096132813?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

 

[CrippsCorner]

I know I'm going against the grain but I had Gaz on my R5 GT Turbo, and have K-Tec on my 182... in all honesty I prefer the K-Tec's! Though TEIN have been the best I've ever owned.

 

[mccabe172]

I run new standard dampers and cooksport springs, been spot on so far. Getting a pms strut and solid top mounts fitted for next trackday along with ad08s. Think if I was going to up the suspension it would be for Bilsteins, used them on previous cars and found them to be reliable.

 

[Steven103]

Hi gents just reading your thread and have a question. I have a 182 rally car and I'm looking at Gaz coil overs all round. Someone selling them on ebay said that coil overs will fit on the rear so replacing the rear dampers. Has anybody done this? will it actually work? I asked him for the diameter of the Gaz rears and from what he says they will physically fit. But does this then mean I need to get rid of the rear beam springs? I think it probably does. Any advice gratefully received.

Yes & yes. Been done loads of times.

There is currently a sort of "Gaz discount for CS members" thread about the new Gaz kits & coilover rears. http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...dded-pics)&p=10265381&viewfull=1#post10265381

I know I'm going against the grain but I had Gaz on my R5 GT Turbo, and have K-Tec on my 182... in all honesty I prefer the K-Tec's! Though TEIN have been the best I've ever owned.

I 100% believe that you could prefer the ktecs to your previous Gaz.

And that's nothing to do with which coilover is better. It's all to do with what you want from the car and how you drive as to whether the damping/spring combination that the manufacturer has estimated suits your expectations, your specific car, springs and tyres.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge advocate of quality dampers but equally I'm a huge advocate of the correct spring/damper choice. Just because a damper is well designed and well-built doesn't mean it has the correct spring/damping rates for what you want. (e.g. Trophy Sachs are high quality but wrong spring/damping rates for track)

 

[t0mmy]

Thanks for the response guys.

The reason I asked was generally, Ktec seem to offer quality parts so was interested to see if the miraculously cheap coilovers actually had any merit. In response to some of the answers, yes i'm looking for a performance and handling upgrade instead of 'mad lowz' and sway more towards a fit and forget item, of course adjustability would be nice but realistically, not essential.. would be horrific to ruin its handling.

 

[Andy93]

Bilstein B14s are the ones to go for, mine are awesome.

 

[CrippsCorner]

I 100% believe that you could prefer the ktecs to your previous Gaz.

And that's nothing to do with which coilover is better. It's all to do with what you want from the car and how you drive as to whether the damping/spring combination that the manufacturer has estimated suits your expectations, your specific car, springs and tyres.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge advocate of quality dampers but equally I'm a huge advocate of the correct spring/damper choice. Just because a damper is well designed and well-built doesn't mean it has the correct spring/damping rates for what you want. (e.g. Trophy Sachs are high quality but wrong spring/damping rates for track)

Yeah you could be right there. Despite what people say about K-Tec, they set up the coilovers for me (for free) how I wanted it and they've performed well... whereas my Gaz ones were probably never set up right.

Oh and just to add, anyone looking for 'lowz' then they're not the right choice, I don't really know why people say this as tbh they really don't go that low!

 

[Daniel]

Really?! I thought they went really low!

These pics also show how soft they are!

 

[CrippsCorner]

Well that's under force isn't it, going to be different from just a static stance. My request was pretty much 'as low as they can go' and they're definitely low enough for me, but I don't think they're extreme by any stretch of imagination...

 

[Daniel]

Yours will go lower. Look at the thread left on the front strut. They'll go all the way down until the subframe hits the floor.

 

[rctempire]

Gaz are very good and bonus is refurb are uber cheap.. @Weeksy

I had GAZ second hand ones and had them refurbed from gaz. £85 delivered both sides.

 

[Steven103]

K-Tec, they set up the coilovers for me

My request was pretty much 'as low as they can go'

I don't really know why people say this as tbh they really don't go that low!

I think it's fairly obvious what has happened here...

Ktec have ignored your "lowz innit" request and fitted them at a ride height that:

* maintains reasonable suspension geometry
* maintains reasonable rake
* will give minimal bumpsteer
* can still go over speed humps
* can still get up a dropped kerb onto a driveway
* still has a reasonable amount of suspension travel
* AND they can be confident they won't rub/knock/bang under cornering & hence they won't get complaints!

As Daniel says they 100% should be able to go lower.

I had GAZ second hand ones and had them refurbed from gaz. £85 delivered both sides.

Playing devils advocate here but what's an £85 Gaz refurb?

* springs off, check it extends, check for leaks, clean threads, win?
* check & amend gas pressure
* quick run on a damper dyno after a heat cycle on fully hard (or fully soft, depending on personal opinion of the tester!)
* replace seals
* inspect shim stack for signs of cavitation
* Left and right dampers matched on a dyno
* full print out of force velocity curves for each b/r click

I'd hazard a guess at less than half of the above. I'm honestly not trying to make Gaz sounds good or bad, it's just a damper refurb isn't like a 72k service which should be the same whichever garage you take it to.

 

[Mr R.]

Even my Spax went lower (i don't have them anymore)

 

[t0mmy]

Really?! I thought they went really low!

These pics also show how soft they are!

Wow, would be better off with marshmallows as the suspension setup.

 

[CrippsCorner]

I think it's fairly obvious what has happened here...

Ktec have ignored your "lowz innit" request and fitted them at a ride height that:

* maintains reasonable suspension geometry
* maintains reasonable rake
* will give minimal bumpsteer
* can still go over speed humps
* can still get up a dropped kerb onto a driveway
* still has a reasonable amount of suspension travel
* AND they can be confident they won't rub/knock/bang under cornering & hence they won't get complaints!

As Daniel says they 100% should be able to go lower.

I like your thinking apart from I still can't get up most driveways and they do rub on the tyres!

Either way I'm totally happy with performance and looks so guess they did me a favour

 

[t0mmy]

So how are the Cooksports with new Cup shocks? Just a nice little upgrade to the already ace standard handling? Can someone give me a description?

 

[Chip-mk1]

So how are the Cooksports with new Cup shocks? Just a nice little upgrade to the already ace standard handling? Can someone give me a description?

Firmer by a reasonable margin so if you go smashing through a pothole you will feel it more and if you throw the car into a bend it will lean less and turn in sharper.

 

[rctempire]

Playing devils advocate here but what's an £85 Gaz refurb?

* springs off, check it extends, check for leaks, clean threads, win?
* check & amend gas pressure
* quick run on a damper dyno after a heat cycle on fully hard (or fully soft, depending on personal opinion of the tester!)
* replace seals
* inspect shim stack for signs of cavitation
* Left and right dampers matched on a dyno
* full print out of force velocity curves for each b/r click

I'd hazard a guess at less than half of the above. I'm honestly not trying to make Gaz sounds good or bad, it's just a damper refurb isn't like a 72k service which should be the same whichever garage you take it to.

Here is what they told me.

Oilss
Sealsp
Piston if needed.
Check Springs/Remove Springs
Check Rotation
Dyno

New bolts and Nuts.

Looks like the top mount was replaced on mine also.

 

[t0mmy]

Firmer by a reasonable margin so if you go smashing through a pothole you will feel it more and if you throw the car into a bend it will lean less and turn in sharper.

Sounds like just the ticket to be honest. Cheers.