Legal Short/Small Number Plates?

[fatboymal]

A quick measure of the recess on the 182's front bumper shows it to be around 100mm deep. I know there are lots of suppliers that will do "showplates" (forgot to take them off didn't I guv, honest!), but I'm looking for a legal alternative.

Regulations are that the number plates must show the British Standards number, the name and postcode of the supplier, and must have letters 79mm tall, plus a border of 11mm. I make that 101mm tall for a minimum legal plate, which coincidentally should fit the 182 nicely.

The problem is where to get them?

I spent an age yesterday, and only found Four Dot, which sell Zero plates. They are 104mm tall, but 2 mm of that is clear so not so bad. However, they are £75 a pair!

Anyone else know of a supplier of legal, short and narrow plates? Cheers.

 

[cs_dave]

Message fancy plates mate

 

[bashracing]

plates also need to have BSAU 145d permanently marked on them as well

 

[davo172]

Message fancy plates mate

This ran smaller front plate to fit recess and rear with no bsau numbers on for years never had a problem or at not time fancy plates offer a great product and service .

 

[Mikeyjp]

Slim plate is a mot fail, i think most dont check or turn a blind eye, i just lob my normal plate in the car, and stick it on before the mot

 

[fatboymal]

Thanks for the replies.

Message fancy plates mate

Cheers, I've asked them.

plates also need to have BSAU 145d permanently marked on them as well

Yes, by regulation.

This ran smaller front plate to fit recess and rear with no bsau numbers on for years never had a problem or at not time fancy plates offer a great product and service .

Still not legal though.

Slim plate is a mot fail, i think most dont check or turn a blind eye, i just lob my normal plate in the car, and stick it on before the mot

Looks like they suspended the MOT fail for no BS marking, or supplying post code, back in 2009. They do still fail for the following:

A registration plate with: a. characters which are obviously not the correct height, character width, stroke width, not of equal width along their entire length or incorrectly spaced b. a character not correctly formed, sloping, or likely to be misread c. any feature that has the effect of changing the appearance or legibility of any of the characters, so that the true identity of the vehicle is less easily established d. characters formed using a font which is not substantially similar to the prescribed font e. characters formed using broken or multiple strokes f. characters laid out in an incorrect format g. a margin obviously less than the minimum requirement h. a non-reflective border obviously wider than permitted or positioned too close to the characters.

It goes on to say:

Testers are not required to physically measure the characters or their spacing and the following information is provided for guidance only. Registration plates should only be rejected for character dimensions or spacing if they are clearly incorrect.

but then they show the correct dimensions (79mm high letters.numbers, 11mm borders etc).

So no actual overall dimension check on the number plate, just the contents. So no other suppliers known apart from 4 dot? Can't see me paying £75..

 

[PP200t]

I know it's a small amount but you could take it off using a jigsaw or some other tool I cant think of name wise. I ran a 5 digit plate cut down with a jigsaw to match the space between letters and edge to a regular plate and never had problems with it.

 

[White16valver]

Fancyplates.

Order standard size font (or irish size, if you want to be slightly cheeky) and request them cut down to an 11mm border.

 

[montana]

As above, cut your standard one down, only issue is you will loose the BSAU

 

[White16valver]

As above, cut your standard one down, only issue is you will loose the BSAU

I can't remember when the BSAU requirement came into being, but IIRC the gist of it is that the police can't make you change an existing number plate, only that all plates sold after that date must accord with the BSAU requirements unless specifically sold as 'off-road show plates' or similar. If that wasn't the case, we'd see 1930s stuff with polished-metal-on-enamel-black plates being pulled over and forced to put black-on-reflective-yellow BSAU plates on.

So...

"No BSAU details? I had no idea, officer, it came with the car / it must be the original plate / it's a personal plate I had made up in [insert date before BSAU requirements came in] and transferred from my old car."

:wink:

 

[fatboymal]

I can't remember when the BSAU requirement came into being, but IIRC the gist of it is that the police can't make you change an existing number plate, only that all plates sold after that date must accord with the BSAU requirements unless specifically sold as 'off-road show plates' or similar. If that wasn't the case, we'd see 1930s stuff with polished-metal-on-enamel-black plates being pulled over and forced to put black-on-reflective-yellow BSAU plates on.

So...

"No BSAU details? I had no idea, officer, it came with the car / it must be the original plate / it's a personal plate I had made up in [insert date before BSAU requirements came in] and transferred from my old car."

:wink:

BS AU 145d: Retroreflecting Numberplates was produced in 1998, and last amended in 2001. The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001, which makes the BS a legal requirement, came in in, yup 2001. Don't think your idea will work on my 04 plated 2004 182 somehow The regs do allow for tax exempt historic vehicles, or vehicles made before 1973.

Too much time on my hands, it's been a slow couple of days!

 

[montana]

I can't remember when the BSAU requirement came into being, but IIRC the gist of it is that the police can't make you change an existing number plate, only that all plates sold after that date must accord with the BSAU requirements unless specifically sold as 'off-road show plates' or similar. If that wasn't the case, we'd see 1930s stuff with polished-metal-on-enamel-black plates being pulled over and forced to put black-on-reflective-yellow BSAU plates on.

So...

"No BSAU details? I had no idea, officer, it came with the car / it must be the original plate / it's a personal plate I had made up in [insert date before BSAU requirements came in] and transferred from my old car."

:wink:

Ignorance is no defence , you can still get a fpn.

 

[loggyboy]

AS mentioned any post 2001 plate should have BS and suppliers postcode. so on a post 2001 car you cant get away with it (to absolute of letter of law). There is a get out if you have a pre 2001 or dateless personal plate, in which case the number plate could have been made prior to 2001 requirements.
However, as long as it looks legal, and doesnt misrepresent most coppers wont care or notice, as will Mot testers. Even if the police do, most will ask you to change it not fine you. and even if they do fine is £60 fixed IIRC.

 

[fatboymal]

There is a get out if you have a pre 2001 or dateless personal plate, in which case the number plate could have been made prior to 2001 requirements.

Cheers, I missed that bit, the regs apply to when the plate was manufactured, not to the car. Obv my 2004 plate was manufactured after 2001, but I could have a dateless plate from before.

Interestingly I also found that since 2008 it has been an offence to manufacture or supply what we might call a "show" plate, that is it carries a registration mark but does not conform to the regs, with a fine of up to £2,500. Fancyplates and a few others are based in Ireland, but it didn't take me long to find a few UK suppliers, particularly on eBay. They all seem to use "this plate is only to be used on private land" type wording, but that doesn't stop it being an offence to supply the plate in the first place.

For those interested, I finally found craigsplates will make short plates, that conform and are legal, but they are all the standard height of 111mm. A pair of 5 character plates, shorter at 350mm, are £33 plus delivery. Still not as small as they could be, by my reckoning a 5 digit prefix style L1LLL could be as small as 302mm x 101mm, or a dateless LLL11 could be as little as 266mm wide.

 

[cs_dave]

Fancy plates show plates do not come with a BU no

 

[loggyboy]

I had a short plate made up for my C30 (illegally spaced and with no markings) as my plate is only 5 digits (and one is 1 so even narrower.) I never had any issues in 2 years. I still have them but when offered up to the clio i choose not to fit as the clios recesses suited full width plates.

ETA, just remembered, i didn't have them made shorter, i made them shorter, sharp knife to score a few times them snapped them. Used a file to smooth the edges.

 

[White16valver]

Cheers, I missed that bit, the regs apply to when the plate was manufactured, not to the car. Obv my 2004 plate was manufactured after 2001, but I could have a dateless plate from before.

Could even be a dated plate - you can put an older dated plate on a newer car (but not vica versa) so could have just unscrewed it from your old car and put it on your new one! :tongueout:

 

[loggyboy]

There is a get out if you have a pre 2001 or dateless personal plate, in which case the number plate could have been made prior to 2001 requirements.

Could even be a dated plate - you can put an older dated plate on a newer car (but not vica versa) so could have just unscrewed it from your old car and put it on your new one! :tongueout:

Theres an echo in here.





























Theres an echo in here.

 

[Goodj]

Pretty sure even ageless plates have regulations against them.

In the same way that you can't use a silver-on-black plate that dates from the 70's and slap it on a new Golf as is, you'd still need to get black-on-white/yellow plates

 

[White16valver]

Theres an echo in here.





























Theres an echo in here.

Reading fail on my part, apologies - I think my brain was reading the pre-2001 but as referring to vehicles not the plate!

Pretty sure even ageless plates have regulations against them.

In the same way that you can't use a silver-on-black plate that dates from the 70's and slap it on a new Golf as is, you'd still need to get black-on-white/yellow plates

I think the plate characteristics are tied to the age of the vehicle rather than whether the plate is date-less or not.

 

[fatboymal]

Pretty sure even ageless plates have regulations against them.

In the same way that you can't use a silver-on-black plate that dates from the 70's and slap it on a new Golf as is, you'd still need to get black-on-white/yellow plates

Yes, the 1973 to 2001 regs look worse than the current ones, in that the letters must be either 64mm or 57mm wide, so larger than the current 50mm.

I think the plate characteristics are tied to the age of the vehicle rather than whether the plate is date-less or not.

They are for vehicles constructed prior to 1/1/1973 (though I'm sure I read somewhere this was extended to tax free historic vehicles, but can't find it now). Then it is tied to number plates fitted prior to Sept 2001, then it is tied to number plates purchased from then on.