Looking at a 172 with failed cambelt tomorrow

[mikeh]

As per title, I'm going to look at a Ph2 172 with a failed cambelt tomorrow, from a quick discussion with the vendor it looks like the auxbelt snapped and wrapped its self around the cambelt. He claims the cambelt did not snap and that the cambelt simply slipped.

Either way, I'm budgeting for a new engine - I've found a 2004 59k mile example on eBay with 3 months warranty for £600. But if it's just a case of replacing a few valves on the old engine, that is just a bonus.

My question is, are there any hidden obstacles in changing the engine that I may experience? Any incompatibilities etc? Obviously the belts will be done on the new engine before putting it in, how much does a cam/aux belt kit cost? I'm told these come with the oil seals for the end of the camshaft etc. as well? Is there anything else that should be changed as a matter of course?

Secondly, are there any other common issues I should look out for on the car? Obviously it's a bit of a risk buying a car that cannot be driven, but I wish to go there as educated as I can be to spot any potential issues beyond the engine.

The car is only £800 and I can do the work myself (well, with the help of a trusty friend), so it has the potential to be a very cheap 172.

Any help/advice would be much appreciated, thanks.

 

[Dunn]

at that price id fit a new engine and new depahsaer and belts

the rest is cheap if anything is wrong apart from the engine

 

[Danith]

any 172 with a failed cambelt is worth £500 absolute max I would've thought.

 

[sideways danny]

your biggest obstacle will be the cambelt. £150 worth of locking tools, which have to be used the right way, or you'll be down on power. both belt kits will be roughly £275

 

[mikeh]

I already have the tools available to me.

I'm surprised the belt kits are that much though? Does this include the Dephaser that Dunn mentions?

 

[Toms_clio]

Dephaser pulley is an extra £170

 

[mikeh]

Is it a neccesary item on a 60k mile engine?

 

[Danith]

dunno how you can tell without hearing the engine running? but if it does need doing again after you do cambelt you're basically having to do the cambelt again when replacing the dephaser. I may be wrong tho. I've just had everything on mine replaced at 62k.

i think f0xy put some videos on youtube showing play in a dephaser pulley and the noise to look for?

 

[mikeh]

I think I will find out if this item is included with the engine I'm looking at. If it is, it should be covered under their supplied warranty.

I wouldn't mind normally, but with £275 for the belts I do not want to be replacing things that do not need replacing for a car that will not be kept long.

Edit: Found the video, it seems the issue should be obvious without running the engine - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=finlI8CG83Y

 

[Fred@BTM]

I wouldn't mind normally, but with £275 for the belts I do not want to be replacing things that do not need replacing for a car that will not be kept long.

or regret not replacing it when it starts rattling its **** off and you have to do everything all over again!

 

[mikeh]

Has anyone used "Engine Dynamics"? They appear to have the Cam and Auxbelt kits for £105 and £79 respectively.
http://www.engine-dynamics.com/epages/es118981.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es118981_shop/Products/%22Clio%20Sport%20Timing%20Belt%20Kit%22/SubProducts/%22clio%20sport%20timing%20belt%20kit-0004%22

http://www.engine-dynamics.com/epag..._shop/Products/"Clio Sport Auxilary Belt Kit"

 

[Fred@BTM]

that's not the full aux kit, its in parts form and for £105 i doubt its a good brand of cambelt kit - ie gates powergrip is the one you want

 

[mikeh]

Can you elaborate what you mean about it not being the full aux kit?

You concerns about the brand of cambelt have been noted.

 

[sideways danny]

those aux kits are aweful. Incomplete, and the belt is too stiff, and too short

 

[mikeh]

What is missing from it? Can you recommend another supplier/kit?

 

[mikeh]

Also, I've noticed in this thread, it mentions a cam pulley locking tool should be used, now the person I am acquiring the tools from (who has done a few, to be fair to him) claims he just has the locking tool for the opposite ends of the cams and some kind of pin for the crank pulley? (Excuse the vagueness, our conversation was brief).

Is the pulley locking tool really necessary? Surely if one end of the cams are locked and if there shouldn't be any play on the cam pulleys, then nothing should move?

 

[Fred@BTM]

Is the pulley locking tool really necessary? Surely if one end of the cams are locked and if there shouldn't be any play on the cam pulleys, then nothing should move?

1000000% necessary!!!

 

[sideways danny]

pay close attention to that thread. If your "mate" says he knows better, poke him in the eye then kick him in the nuts. Cam pulleys MUST be slackened, the VVT pulley MUST be removed and cleaned out thoroughly.

Non genuine locking tools are not acceptable. Its a specialist job, and there's a lot of half arsed attempts that are well documented on here where it's been done wrong

 

[mikeh]

Could you elaborate? Whilst I do not doubt your advice (you're the expert, not me!), I'd like to get an understanding myself so I'm not going in to it blind (plus, I need to explain this to my friend who will likely be dead set that he's been doing it the correct way).

How much is the pulley locking tool and where can I get one?

 

[sideways danny]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?510521-cambelt-problems-(local-garages)

 

[mikeh]

Right, so after a bit of Googling, it looks like I need the locking kit (MOT1801 - 7711381801), and then an additional kit that supplies a new cog and spacers (0000150901) for the kit? Looks like ~£60+vat for both from Renault.

Can I just clarify though, this pulley locking tool is only required to remove the pulleys, right? If I am not changing the dephaser pulley, why do I need to do this?

The more this is discussed, the more I'd be tempted to drop the engine off at a specialist before it goes in to have them do the belt, but living on the Isle of Wight is a pain, as there are none.

 

[sideways danny]

where on IOW are you?

Parents live there might be down soon

 

[mikeh]

Binstead, although I do not know if I will be doing the car at Home, our Unit (Wootton) or my mate's garage (Newport Industrial Estate) yet.

If you were down in time, I'd definitely be interested in getting a quote if you're interested in the job - a full workshop (well, minus this pulley tool ), engine stand, tools and tea/coffee/doughnuts/lunch will be supplied

That said, I would quite like the sense of achievement that comes with doing it myself.

 

[sideways danny]

Drop me a PM when you know when and where, and i'll see if i'm going to be down. I'm due a visit

 

[Revels]

Hello Island person *waves*

 

[mikeh]

A fellow Islander?

Good news on the belt front, spoken to my friend this morning and he has the pulley locking tool, and is well aware of the procedure of slacking the cam pulleys - he sought the advice of Renault the first time he did one.

 

[jack_kemp]

Ren-tec is in portsmouth, that's reasonably straight forward toget to at least, if Danny can't make it.

Definitely worth getting a specialist to do it.

 

[mikeh]

Well the broken 172 was a bit of a non-starter, due to a deluded owner.

I went to have a look at it, and externally it needs some work - front bumper paint is pealing, rear is scuffed, wing mirror taped on, every wheel curbed, new but budget tyres etc.

Now, I'd normally walk away at this point, but I thought I'd humour the vendor and explain how I feel about it, the costs involved of sorting it and make an offer for an amount that would make it worth me bringing it up to scratch - £300.

The vendor proceeded to tell me how he didn't need the money, and that if he hasn't got what he wants for it (£800) by the end of the week when the tax runs out, he is going to scrap it. I re-iterated that my offer was above scrap value, but he insisted that he'd rather scrap it.

Oh well.

Thanks for all of your help guys.