MarkCup's BMW M140i

[David172]

That 0-100mph time sounds believable.
I timed my M135i Auto (400hp 570nm) at 4.2 to 60mph and 9.6 to 100mph.
Jury is out on how accurate the figures are but 0-60mph stock 320hp was 4.8 which is close to book figure. Numbers dont mean shite though, appart from the ones on your licence :/

 

[Crazylegs]

I absolutely love these cars (M135/140). I'd done loads of reading into them but they're out of my price range sadly. It'd be a toss up between one of these and a i30n if I could afford one.

Mark - is the M140i that much quicker than an M135 in your opinion? I know Joe Achilles changed from an M135 to the 140 but he felt the N55 engine was more rewarding than the B58. Are they a bit twitchy without having a proper diff installed?

 

[MarkCup]

I absolutely love these cars (M135/140). I'd done loads of reading into them but they're out of my price range sadly. It'd be a toss up between one of these and a i30n if I could afford one.

Mark - is the M140i that much quicker than an M135 in your opinion? I know Joe Achilles changed from an M135 to the 140 but he felt the N55 engine was more rewarding than the B58. Are they a bit twitchy without having a proper diff installed?

Honestly, I think the power difference between the N55 and B58 would only show itself at silly speeds. I think the book figures are only 20PS apart. I believe the B58 has much stronger low down torque which might give it a slight edge in day to day driving.

I've also heard the N55 135i sounds better and has a bit more zing at high RPM. Having said that I've never felt mine tail off like the Ecoboost engines in my Fiesta ST and Focus RS...I always found myself shifting early in them. In the 140 I hit the limiter quite often 😊

Twitchy without the diff? Not at all!

The traction control is really good, and they have just the right amount of rear grip for the power they have. I have to be quite brutal to really unsettle the back.

When I do though, I have control of it and it's consistent in what it does. That's what the LSD gives more than anything. Without one, sometimes you'll get a nice slide going, others it'll just lift and spin the inside wheel.

That's what I love most about it, I can feel it lock as I accelerate out of turns, feel both tyres dig in and push while tracing a slightly wider line. From there on it's then all down to the throttle, more or less, on demand at any revs.

RWD. Love it. Loads more than I ever thought I would.

There's still not a single thing I can see myself changing this car for. It's almost perfect.

 

[gambit]

What do you think of the m5 f10? Driven one as a comparison to the m140i

 

[Matthew]

I’m surprised the 172 cup was faster than the mapped Fiesta ST!

 

[Smiffyboy1990]

That Cup was a little rocket!

Did you do 0-100 when the ST had the MR230 ?

The M140i is in a totally different league!

 

[KitsonRis]

There's still not a single thing I can see myself changing this car for. It's almost perfect.

I also agree. I really like mine. I don’t use it like you as it is my daily drive but it is all the car I could want - comfortable, fast, easy to drive, nice place to be and is inconspicuous despite kids who try and race me off the lights in their Fiesta’s and Corsa’s. Think it makes an ok noise, it’s not going to compete with the noise my E34 makes though. I really wanted the orange but the deal I got meant my grey one was over £100 a month cheaper as it was being built as I ordered and an orange one would have been a fresh order. Did really want a manual but they stopped doing them about three weeks before I ordered mine (dealer was questioning why I wanted one) but the auto is such a good gear box and I don’t notice missing out on anything. The only thing I would like is a tow bar so I could put a bike rack on. I have seen people with tow bar bike racks but they have had to bend something out the way and something else and as it is not my car still under warranty I am a little reluctant to do it. I do have a fitted boot liner which is really good, you wouldn’t know I put a dirty mountain bike in the back of it most weeks.
However come September 2022 I don’t think I will be extending the lease or getting something else. I’ve done the new car thing and it has (so far) been perfect. If I do it will be something like a 340i touring. At the moment I keep looking at E38 740il’s for some stupid reason.

 

[MarkCup]

What do you think of the m5 f10? Driven one as a comparison to the m140i

Nope, I've no desire to either. No matter how good it is, I just can't get excited by something that big that weighs 2 tons!

I’m surprised the 172 cup was faster than the mapped Fiesta ST!

To be fair to the ST I did get a little flare up of wheelspin in 2nd gear, you can see and hear that I had to let off slightly to get traction again.

That Cup was a little rocket!

Did you do 0-100 when the ST had the MR230 ?

The M140i is in a totally different league!

Aye, the Cup was a beast!

I did try the ST when MR230, but I never got close the the MP215 run. Too many torques meant getting a clean pull through 2nd was tricky and in 1st it was almost impossible. Dramatic, noisy, but not quick.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Nope, I've no desire to either. No matter how good it is, I just can't get excited by something that big that weighs 2 tons!

I went round the 'ring as a passenger in an M6. It was an absolute weapon. Modern cars hide their weight very well tbh.

 

[MarkCup]

I went round the 'ring as a passenger in an M6. It was an absolute weapon. Modern cars hide their weight very well tbh.

Agreed, completely! I've passengered in an M5 driven by an instructor around Goodwood, one of their fleet of M cars.

Sounded amazing, felt incredible, it's just half a ton of, and about £50k more car than I need.

I like small cars 😁

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Agreed, completely! I've passengered in an M5 driven by an instructor around Goodwood, one of their fleet of M cars.

Sounded amazing, felt incredible, it's just half a ton of, and about £50k more car than I need.

I like small cars 😁

I know what you mean. Big cars don't really do much for me generally. I do quite like the 5-Series, and would probably have one as a "throw stuff in the back of" wagon, or as a tow car, but I think a Golf/Focus/1-Series car is about perfect for most stuff.

Says the guy who drives a 197 😂

 

[Crazylegs]

Honestly, I think the power difference between the N55 and B58 would only show itself at silly speeds. I think the book figures are only 20PS apart. I believe the B58 has much stronger low down torque which might give it a slight edge in day to day driving.

I've also heard the N55 135i sounds better and has a bit more zing at high RPM. Having said that I've never felt mine tail off like the Ecoboost engines in my Fiesta ST and Focus RS...I always found myself shifting early in them. In the 140 I hit the limiter quite often 😊

Twitchy without the diff? Not at all!

The traction control is really good, and they have just the right amount of rear grip for the power they have. I have to be quite brutal to really unsettle the back.

When I do though, I have control of it and it's consistent in what it does. That's what the LSD gives more than anything. Without one, sometimes you'll get a nice slide going, others it'll just lift and spin the inside wheel.

That's what I love most about it, I can feel it lock as I accelerate out of turns, feel both tyres dig in and push while tracing a slightly wider line. From there on it's then all down to the throttle, more or less, on demand at any revs.

RWD. Love it. Loads more than I ever thought I would.

There's still not a single thing I can see myself changing this car for. It's almost perfect.

Hi Mark

Thanks for the detailed reply! They certainly sound like a real weapon, I went through a phase of just listening to in-car noise from the M135i - they sound amazing. Like Joe says in his videos, BMW will stop making 6 pot turbo engines going forward which is a massive shame. I'd love one, maybe in a few years I hope!

Have read that too, N55 seems to be more like an NA car in its power delivery where as the B58 has more torque, both are excellent cars though and it's a serious amount of car for the money. The 8 speed auto looks a brilliant gearbox but a manual would be better for me as I live rural and don't cover many miles. I think I need to get out in one and take both a manual and an auto for a drive.

Interesting to hear that you feel they don't require a LSD. I've had an E30 325i a long long time ago and being RWD it caught me off guard but I imagine these newer BMW's can keep the power done safely and much better than some of the older stuff. Nice cars either way, not surprised you enjoy it so much and don't want to get rid!

 

[Sir_Dave]

Just to counter Mark's opinion, purely as he hasnt actually driven any "proper" M BMW's, so doesnt know what a very good RWD is supposed to drive like

1. The M135i's rear end, on supersports, is twitchy as f*ck in the wet. It needs an LSD before any more power. Its more than ok on PS4's however!
2. On passive suspension, the rear end corkscrews around all over the shop on longer, high speed corners, the stability is poor. It handles like an oil tanker in a storm. You need Bilstein B12's at a minimum.
3. On adaptive suspenion, the above issue is mostly removed, the handling is very much improved with some eibach springs however.
4. The manual box is fairly average, ive had both manual & auto M135i N55s - first was a manual EWG, 2nd an auto PWG.
5. The steering is utter sh1te. Even my RS3 had more feel.

In conclusion, the M135i is a very accomplished car, but it is neither fun like a hot hatch, nor "proper" like an M. Its a decent enough compromise though.

I got rid of mine earlier than expected both times, once for an e46 M3, once for an e91 335i. Didnt regret either decision tbh.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

I find it a very interesting car in a way. It appears very divisive. It was regarded as being pretty average by the motoring press, but many owners seem to adore them. Now it's been replaced by a transverse AWD version, the motoring hacks mourn the passing of the old one.

 

[David172]

Just to counter Mark's opinion, purely as he hasnt actually driven any "proper" M BMW's, so doesnt know what a very good RWD is supposed to drive like

1. The M135i's rear end, on supersports, is twitchy as f*ck in the wet. It needs an LSD before any more power. Its more than ok on PS4's however!
2. On passive suspension, the rear end corkscrews around all over the shop on longer, high speed corners, the stability is poor. It handles like an oil tanker in a storm. You need Bilstein B12's at a minimum.
3. On adaptive suspenion, the above issue is mostly removed, the handling is very much improved with some eibach springs however.
4. The manual box is fairly average, ive had both manual & auto M135i N55s - first was a manual EWG, 2nd an auto PWG.
5. The steering is utter sh1te. Even my RS3 had more feel.

In conclusion, the M135i is a very accomplished car, but it is neither fun like a hot hatch, nor "proper" like an M. Its a decent enough compromise though.

I got rid of mine earlier than expected both times, once for an e46 M3, once for an e91 335i. Didnt regret either decision tbh.

I'm not affraid to admit that the back of mine has felt twitchy a couple of times when pushing it. Only ever had PS4's on it.

Seeing the stability control light flash on at 145mph on a (private?) motorway that was moderately bumpy is poop enducing.

I rarely thrash it in the corners though, that's a job for the clio

 

[gambit]

Just to counter Mark's opinion, purely as he hasnt actually driven any "proper" M BMW's, so doesnt know what a very good RWD is supposed to drive like

1. The M135i's rear end, on supersports, is twitchy as f*ck in the wet. It needs an LSD before any more power. Its more than ok on PS4's however!
2. On passive suspension, the rear end corkscrews around all over the shop on longer, high speed corners, the stability is poor. It handles like an oil tanker in a storm. You need Bilstein B12's at a minimum.
3. On adaptive suspenion, the above issue is mostly removed, the handling is very much improved with some eibach springs however.
4. The manual box is fairly average, ive had both manual & auto M135i N55s - first was a manual EWG, 2nd an auto PWG.
5. The steering is utter sh1te. Even my RS3 had more feel.

In conclusion, the M135i is a very accomplished car, but it is neither fun like a hot hatch, nor "proper" like an M. Its a decent enough compromise though.

I got rid of mine earlier than expected both times, once for an e46 M3, once for an e91 335i. Didnt regret either decision tbh.

Very well said, this was always my perception of 1 series cars. You would have to modify aspects of the car to take it beyond and into the realm of proper hot hatch or M class territory.

 

[MarkCup]

Just to counter Mark's opinion, purely as he hasnt actually driven any "proper" M BMW's, so doesnt know what a very good RWD is supposed to drive like

1. The M135i's rear end, on supersports, is twitchy as f*ck in the wet. It needs an LSD before any more power. Its more than ok on PS4's however!
2. On passive suspension, the rear end corkscrews around all over the shop on longer, high speed corners, the stability is poor. It handles like an oil tanker in a storm. You need Bilstein B12's at a minimum.
3. On adaptive suspenion, the above issue is mostly removed, the handling is very much improved with some eibach springs however.
4. The manual box is fairly average, ive had both manual & auto M135i N55s - first was a manual EWG, 2nd an auto PWG.
5. The steering is utter sh1te. Even my RS3 had more feel.

In conclusion, the M135i is a very accomplished car, but it is neither fun like a hot hatch, nor "proper" like an M. Its a decent enough compromise though.

I got rid of mine earlier than expected both times, once for an e46 M3, once for an e91 335i. Didnt regret either decision tbh.

1. Of my 21k miles so far, 14k+ have been on PS4s, they're a great tyre if you can live with the squishy sidewalls. Regardless, I've never really found it twitchy though. The internet would have me believe that's because I have the rear underbody brace tying everything together. I've never driven one without in anger so can't comment on what it does for the car.
2. Passive can f*** right off.
3. I genuinely find it OK, on standard springs an dampers, it goes where I want it to, when I want it to. It doesn't feel like it will though, but it does.
4. You're being generous! It's shite. Very temperature dependant, and very inconsistent. Sometimes it slips in like a dream, and other times it's like there's a tight rubber collar you've got to force it through. If it was the same every time that would be something...but it isn't and that's infurating. I'd stil take it everytime over an auto though, because limbs, I like using them all.
5. I've never got this one...and you've always said this. I find it OK, it doesn't have the last word on feel, far from it, but I can tell when it's just starting to push a little which is all I really want from it. It has now been 7+ years since I've driven a car with a decent hydraulic rack though so my sense of 'feel' has been comlpetely recalibrated!

Very well said, this was always my perception of 1 series cars. You would have to modify aspects of the car to take it beyond and into the realm of proper hot hatch or M class territory.

This I have always said...to call it a hot-hatch is a little generous. It's a 116d, with some firmer springs and dampers, and a f*** off ridiculously big engine up front. The thing that makes it what it is, is the unique (in its class) configuration...and that makes up for a lot of its shortcomings IMO.

Would an M2 address a lot of the above issues? Most likely. Most probably. But none of them stop it being a really very good car as it is.

Especially if you've got an LSD fitted. Oh yes.

 

[Matthew]

Mark, out of interest, why did you go for the M140 over the M240? I’m genuinely interested as I’m thinking of getting the 2 series to replace my VRS.

 

[MarkCup]

Mark, out of interest, why did you go for the M140 over the M240? I’m genuinely interested as I’m thinking of getting the 2 series to replace my VRS.

One reason and one alone, practicality.

I routinely fill the boot up for dump runs etc.

 

[Danith]

Honestly, I think the power difference between the N55 and B58 would only show itself at silly speeds. I think the book figures are only 20PS apart. I believe the B58 has much stronger low down torque which might give it a slight edge in day to day driving.

I've also heard the N55 135i sounds better and has a bit more zing at high RPM. Having said that I've never felt mine tail off like the Ecoboost engines in my Fiesta ST and Focus RS...I always found myself shifting early in them. In the 140 I hit the limiter quite often 😊

Twitchy without the diff? Not at all!

The traction control is really good, and they have just the right amount of rear grip for the power they have. I have to be quite brutal to really unsettle the back.

When I do though, I have control of it and it's consistent in what it does. That's what the LSD gives more than anything. Without one, sometimes you'll get a nice slide going, others it'll just lift and spin the inside wheel.

That's what I love most about it, I can feel it lock as I accelerate out of turns, feel both tyres dig in and push while tracing a slightly wider line. From there on it's then all down to the throttle, more or less, on demand at any revs.

RWD. Love it. Loads more than I ever thought I would.

There's still not a single thing I can see myself changing this car for. It's almost perfect.

Do sound an all round great package. What's the mpg like on them?

 

[Sir_Dave]

5. I've never got this one...and you've always said this. I find it OK, it doesn't have the last word on feel, far from it, but I can tell when it's just starting to push a little which is all I really want from it. It has now been 7+ years since I've driven a car with a decent hydraulic rack though so my sense of 'feel' has been comlpetely recalibrated!

I'll let you drive the touring when we get back to normality, then you'll see what i mean

 

[MarkCup]

Do sound an all round great package. What's the mpg like on them?

Over 21k miles, of which 10k max was commuting (mostly empty roads and lots of roundabouts to play on), the remainder has been just driving for driving so mostly pressing on, filming, or larking about, I've averaged 27.8 MPG. That includes 3 half day trackdays as well.

Drive one more normally, make it an automatic, and 30+ isn't out of reach. Even in my manual, I drove a 350 mile, mostly motorway round trip on Boxing Day visiting relatives fully loaded both ways with family and presents, and I got 37.8 MPG.

As a contrast I've also burned through a whole tank before, not on a trackday, just roads, and got 21 MPG. That was hard to get it that low, and very not really um legal at all. Many people were overtaken, much tyre noise and wear caused.

 

[Danith]

Not terrible then for a 3.0 twin turbo (?)

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

Not terrible then for a 3.0 twin turbo (?)

It's epic really.

M3 (which is same company, same sort of platform) gets nearly half the economy.

My long term average is 18mpg and best on a long journey is 25.

 

[MarkCup]

Not terrible then for a 3.0 twin turbo (?)

The M140i's B58 has a twin-scroll single turbo. But, yeah, way more economical than my Clio 200 ever was...which is a bit mental really.

 

[Danith]

Ahh so what's the difference between 135i and 140i? Both 3.0 6 pots?

 

[KitsonRis]

In the 13k miles I have had mine I have averaged 30.81mpg and the highest I got it was to 38.04mpg. Was better on fuel than my 1.8T Octavia vRS. I think mine is getting worse but I am driving it less and those journies are shorter distances.

IIRC they are pretty much the same engine but the B58 has a different turbo.

 

[Stay Puft]

Different engines, N55 and B58. B58 is more easily tuneable and slightly more economical.
In my M135i I average 28mpg.. easily 35 sitting at 70mph though.

 

[MarkCup]

Ahh so what's the difference between 135i and 140i? Both 3.0 6 pots?

135 has the N55 engine...which I believe is also a single turbo although I'm not sure if it's twin-scroll...and yep it's also a 3.0 litre six.

The N55 was just the N55, its six cylinder turbo motor of its time, whereas the B58 is from BMW's 'modular' engine line-up.

There's the straight six 3.0 litre.
Lop a couple of cylinders off and you have BMW's inline-4 2.0 litre.
Lop another one off and you get their 1.5 litre triple.

All are based upon the same basic architecture and design...although in varying states of tune across the model line up.

 

[Matthew]

I went to BMW a few days ago to eye up a M240. I like it but the Mrs didn’t so much. Said it just looked a bit boring and didn’t interest her. She’s now looking at Mini JCWs instead. I’ll be happy either way The cream leather is what did it for the M240 I think. Bloody horrible.

One thing we both commented on though, was the disappointing seats in the baby M. Are they the same as a 118D?

 

[MarkCup]

I went to BMW a few days ago to eye up a M240. I like it but the Mrs didn’t so much. Said it just looked a bit boring and didn’t interest her. She’s now looking at Mini JCWs instead. I’ll be happy either way The cream leather is what did it for the M240 I think. Bloody horrible.

One thing we both commented on though, was the disappointing seats in the baby M. Are they the same as a 118D?

Yeah they're not far off I think 🤣

Other than the leather and inflatable side bolsters it wouldn't surprise me if they were identical.

Imagine how they original M2 owners feel, other than an embossed ///M logo on the backrest they're identical to mine as well.

 

[Pep]

Yeah they're not far off I think 🤣

Other than the leather and inflatable side bolsters it wouldn't surprise me if they were identical.

Imagine how they original M2 owners feel, other than an embossed ///M logo on the backrest they're identical to mine as well.

It's not even real leather in them, that's the worst part! Definitely comfier than they look though.

 

[Stay Puft]

The M2 has the same seats too though don’t they? Competition have the nice ones

 

[imprezaworks]

There was a 140 next door the other day. Very capable i'm sure but i had to look twice to check it wasnt a standard car. They really are quite bland.

Not in a particular negative way as that can be an appeal. It sounded great though.

 

[MarkCup]

There was a 140 next door the other day. Very capable i'm sure but i had to look twice to check it wasnt a standard car. They really are quite bland.

Not in a particular negative way as that can be an appeal. It sounded great though.

To me this is a good thing, twin pipes out back and lack of foglights are the only real giveaways on the 140 and even your most basic poor spec generic sh*t box has twin pipes these days.

To most it's just a car...which means lack of tw*ts trying it on (way less than I used to get in the Focus or Fiesta), and the ability to just get your head down and make progress unnoticed.

 

[jenic]

Just to counter Mark's opinion, purely as he hasnt actually driven any "proper" M BMW's, so doesnt know what a very good RWD is supposed to drive like

1. The M135i's rear end, on supersports, is twitchy as f*ck in the wet. It needs an LSD before any more power. Its more than ok on PS4's however!
2. On passive suspension, the rear end corkscrews around all over the shop on longer, high speed corners, the stability is poor. It handles like an oil tanker in a storm. You need Bilstein B12's at a minimum.
3. On adaptive suspenion, the above issue is mostly removed, the handling is very much improved with some eibach springs however.
4. The manual box is fairly average, ive had both manual & auto M135i N55s - first was a manual EWG, 2nd an auto PWG.
5. The steering is utter sh1te. Even my RS3 had more feel.

In conclusion, the M135i is a very accomplished car, but it is neither fun like a hot hatch, nor "proper" like an M. Its a decent enough compromise though.

I got rid of mine earlier than expected both times, once for an e46 M3, once for an e91 335i. Didnt regret either decision tbh.

Completely agree with this list, I have the adaptive suspension and auto, running PS4’s.

I’d want an LSD before I got any more power, but I don’t want any more power so I’m happy with it now.

The steering is utter crap, it’s taken me a year of ownership to become confident driving the car fast, my e91 steering was soooo much better.

But, I love it, it is genuinely the best car out there that ticks the boxes of fun (now I’m confident it’s a lot of fun), relatively cheap to run, fast, comfortable and modern. Absolutely love mine, keep looking at M2s but it’s just such a jump in costs for performance I’ll rarely use, still want though

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

There was a 140 next door the other day. Very capable i'm sure but i had to look twice to check it wasnt a standard car. They really are quite bland.

Not in a particular negative way as that can be an appeal. It sounded great though.

Not sure I get this.

To me it looks like an M135i/M140i which is a f**king fast car. To anyone that can barely tell a 1 series from a Mini, it's the same situation with almost anything anyway. (Golf R, Golf GTI both look like regular Golfs, RS3 looks the same as an S3 and A3 etc etc etc)

The lad that used to live next to me told me "That sounds awesome" when I started my car one morning. Then asked if it was a diesel.

 

[imprezaworks]

Oh for sure. Id say the same with the S3 from a distance.

Maybe it was the blue, just looks like another 1 Series.

 

[MLB]

Do sound an all round great package. What's the mpg like on them?

I do a fair amount of motorway driving and usually have the family with me so the average I've got in my M140i is 33.95 mpg over almost 12k miles, not bad at all for such a capable little car!

 

[Not a Diesel!!!]

A neighbour took me out in his 140i a few months back. Auto.

It just felt relentless in terms of acceleration,

I have had some fast cars but I guess they all required work to make sure they were in right gear at right engine speed. Whether thats a subaru on boost or the m3 v8 above 6k.

This just fell like easy speed. I guess thats a big torque number from low rpm with a silky shifter gives you seem less shove.