MK1 Clio Hybrid

[MikeyK18]

Hi all,

I have seen a MK1 clio hybrid for sale, but i have a few questions regarding the engine on it as it seems wierd for a hybrid (well compared to some of the ones ive seen on here lol).

The engine has a bottom end of a 2.0 megane (F7R) and the top half of a williams. I have never heard of these being used like this and just wondering if anyone has had any experience with this?

He has said that its a bit smokey when running as he thinks the piston rings need replaced and im just wondering if this setup is ok?

I have always said if i got a MK1 i woulkd put a 172 engine in it but i dont know a big lot about it so would appreciate some info.

Thanks
Michael

 

[sideways danny]

megane bottom end is a common swap. It's almost the same with a few detail changes like how the oil pump is driven

 

[MikeyK18]

is that a good thing or not?

 

[Robb]

Yes, if i remember correctly, it's roughly 25% lighter and stronger.

 

[Danmalone1999]

Considering a williams engine is almost a straight swap into a Mk1 and most williams engines produce around 160 bhp with some simple breathing mods, the gain of 6-8 bhp for fitting a 172 lump is a total waste of time.

People generally fit megane engines for two reasons.

1. They cant find a williams engine.

2. They think its clever and end up making more work for themselves.

You can get a complete williams pretty cheap these days, buying a hybrid is a waste of money. unless you like a hole in the roof and like a car someone has bodged.

 

[Daniel]

Considering a williams engine is almost a straight swap into a Mk1 and most williams engines produce around 160 bhp with some simple breathing mods, the gain of 6-8 bhp for fitting a 172 lump is a total waste of time.

How so??

Is that all you're basing it on? If I was to have just swapped over the engine in my car (I'm not including the extras i've fitted) It would have cost me about £500.

Now you can't honestly believe thats a waste of time can you??

 

[f0xy]

As said megane bottom end is common, I had one in mine with a williams head and it was fine...

With regards to the 172 conversion, its just the wiring that is the complicated bit. The physical engine fitting can be done in a few hours. I wrote a guide thats been used by a few people and makes it easy. On the other hand im selling my 172-to-Mk1 Engine Loom and Decoded ECU at the moment, which are ready to plug and play.

 

[Daniel]

On the other hand im selling my 172-to-Mk1 Engine Loom and Decoded ECU at the moment, which are ready to plug and play.

There you go mikey!!

Buy a smashed up 172 for say £800. remove engine/box etc and put to one side. Sell the rest of the bits from the smashed up car (At least £800 worth!) the engine owes you nothing. Buy f0xy's loom/ecu and use that.

Find a mint valver to fit it to and bobs your monkhouse!

 

[sideways danny]

i smell a troll

 

[Danmalone1999]

How so??

Is that all you're basing it on? If I was to have just swapped over the engine in my car (I'm not including the extras i've fitted) It would have cost me about £500.

Now you can't honestly believe thats a waste of time can you??

Yes. On paper a 172 conversion seems a good idea. But in reality, they never produce the power they should and many produce the same / less than williams F7Rs.

Some kid off here used to tell me (argue with me) how great 172 valvers were. Heard his was rolling roaded and its produces less power than my standard williams lump.

You could probably get close to the power of a typical 172 engine with some cams and breathing mods on a good well built valver lump. The cup racers ran 150 bhp. Ive seen 172s that produce only 5 bhp more than that.

 

[DannoTheGreat]

Nah, still rather go down the 172 route

 

[Danmalone1999]

Nah, still rather go down the 172 route

Best get your soldering iron out then. And get some AA cover too.

 

[DannoTheGreat]

Maybe i will

 

[sideways danny]

Yes. On paper a 172 conversion seems a good idea. But in reality, they never produce the power they should and many produce the same / less than williams F7Rs.

Some kid off here used to tell me (argue with me) how great 172 valvers were. Heard his was rolling roaded and its produces less power than my standard williams lump.

You could probably get close to the power of a typical 172 engine with some cams and breathing mods on a good well built valver lump. The cup racers ran 150 bhp. Ive seen 172s that produce only 5 bhp more than that.

talking out of your arse again. I dont know why i'm dignifying this with a reply. The F4R IS a superior engine. It DOES make more power, more torque and is more reliable. Low outputs are normally down to faulty assembly, the example you gave being the perfect case study....the cam timing was out by a MILE

 

[Daniel]

Yes. On paper a 172 conversion seems a good idea. But in reality, they never produce the power they should and many produce the same / less than williams F7Rs.

Some kid off here used to tell me (argue with me) how great 172 valvers were. Heard his was rolling roaded and its produces less power than my standard williams lump.

You could probably get close to the power of a typical 172 engine with some cams and breathing mods on a good well built valver lump. The cup racers ran 150 bhp. Ive seen 172s that produce only 5 bhp more than that.

Well i've had 2 williams, I've had 3 Valvers and I've now got my 172'd valver and I can safely say (From a very short test run) that the 172'd car is by far the fastest. Not even close.

 

[Danmalone1999]

talking out of your arse again. I dont know why i'm dignifying this with a reply. The F4R IS a superior engine. It DOES make more power, more torque and is more reliable. Low outputs are normally down to faulty assembly, the example you gave being the perfect case study....the cam timing was out by a MILE

So if he had fitted a williams lump and dropped it straight in he would not have had that problem would he?

So i am right.

Thanks for confirming this.

 

[Danmalone1999]

Well i've had 2 williams, I've had 3 Valvers and I've now got my 172'd valver and I can safely say (From a very short test run) that the 172'd car is by far the fastest. Not even close.

That is exactly what this other guy said. 'Apparently' it was 'way faster' that a standard williams.

Only it was producing less power.

Oh Dear.

Brad's first law.

 

[Josh2391]

Considering a williams engine is almost a straight swap into a Mk1 and most williams engines produce around 160 bhp with some simple breathing mods, the gain of 6-8 bhp for fitting a 172 lump is a total waste of time.

People generally fit megane engines for two reasons.

1. They cant find a williams engine.

2. They think its clever and end up making more work for themselves.

You can get a complete williams pretty cheap these days, buying a hybrid is a waste of money. unless you like a hole in the roof and like a car someone has bodged.

You do realise that the williams engine is the megane engine?

 

[sideways danny]

Brad's first law.

confusing yourself with all your log-ins again? awww bless

 

[Adams_16v]

Almost the same engines.

 

[Josh2391]

Well yeah, few differences but its comparable to say something like the Skoda Octavia 1.9 TDI engine, which is then altered a little and dropped into their Fabia VRS. Same engine just basicaly tuned and dropped into a smaller car.

EDIT: Sorry for the comparrison on a different maker but best I could think of and ive always had a thing for those cars

 

[Daniel]

So if he had fitted a williams lump and dropped it straight in he would not have had that problem would he?

So i am right.

Thanks for confirming this.

If he'd have fitted a 172 engine straight in he wouldn't have had a problem. He had a problem because the CAM TIMING WAS OUT!!! Ergo, the engine had been apart.

 

[Danmalone1999]

You do realise that the williams engine is the megane engine?

No i dont, because it isnt.

 

[Danmalone1999]

If he'd have fitted a 172 engine straight in he wouldn't have had a problem. He had a problem because the CAM TIMING WAS OUT!!! Ergo, the engine had been apart.

So lets see the power it is producing now the timing is done then.

 

[Whiteley]

I happen to have a 172 engine'd Mk1 too, now unless I'm mistaken, my completely standard engine makes 172bhp, still never seen an F4R make book power?

 

[DannoTheGreat]

He's gonna say the RR print out has been doctor'd!

 

[bill]

has anyone put a williams up against a 172 mk1? i'd like to know if there any quicker

 

[Danmalone1999]

I happen to have a 172 engine'd Mk1 too, now unless I'm mistaken, my completely standard engine makes 172bhp, still never seen an F4R make book power?

The problem with your post, that instanlty discredits anything you say, is that you are claiming i said things that i didn't.

 

[Danmalone1999]

He's gonna say the RR print out has been doctor'd!

This is one example of a 172 that might produce the factory power.

Dont make me cut and paste the links to the many many posts, over the last few years, where cars have not made book power.

I have searched, there are lots.

Lots and lots.

 

[Chesh]

Danmalone1999 do you have a clio?

 

[sideways danny]

plenty of examples of F7's that dont make book power too.

Just because you dont understand it, doesn't make it wrong

the F4R is a big step forward from the F7R, they're a closely related engine obviously.
The megane F7R is a step forward from the williams F7R in the same way. Technology advances constantly

I like My F7R 712 just fine, none of that distributor sillyness, a proper throttle body, not that twin choke mess, bigger valves as standard. I'm sure i'll build up an F4R eventually, definitely wont be making the backwards step to a 700 though

 

[Matteh]

Stromba never seems to tire of being wrong.. amazing!

 

[Martin_172]

F4R albeit in a mk2!

standard


filter, matched inlets, exhaust manifold, decat exhaust system

 

[2 live]

megane bottom end is a common swap. It's almost the same with a few detail changes like how the oil pump is driven

depends which one you get...710 or 714

710s being driven the same way as the 700s

 

[2 live]

F4R albeit in a mk2!

standard


filter, matched inlets, exhaust manifold, decat exhaust system

wow.............an f4 running more than book figures.....now theres a 1 in a million. 172 being the ps not bhp, which equates to around 165 bhp iirc.


keep hold of that mate its a good un......diff roller comparisons??

 

[midge]

whitely isnt your car running an rtuner(or some other map)? decat? filter?
so not exactly standard!

ive been to a few rr days and never seen a 172 make 172bhp!

Williams engine works just great! saying that if my turbo engine goes pop ill be putting an F4R in my hybrid, why? simply because there is ALOT more off them around!

 

[Danmalone1999]

whitely isnt your car running an rtuner(or some other map)? decat? filter?
so not exactly standard!

ive been to a few rr days and never seen a 172 make 172bhp!

Williams engine works just great! saying that if my turbo engine goes pop ill be putting an F4R in my hybrid, why? simply because there is ALOT more off them around!

Naughty naughty Mr Whitely. Telling pork pies about the level of tune hey?

Just to be clear. Standard means 'as the car as it came out of the factory'. Judging by that graph, if you remove the map and decat, and other bits, your below book power.

Yet again Mr Midgley delivers. Thats why they call him 'The Postman'.

 

[Ads_172]

I'm sure the OP's pleased with the response...

 

[2 live]

think most iv seen a std 172 run is about 165.

and thats pretty much book figure.....a car running 170 with de-cat and remap is just fukkin dire if you ask me....trying to promote it as a std car is even worse in my book.

 

[midge]

The F7R and F4R make similar power with similar mods i.e a cammed F7R will make 180ish bhp and the same for the F4R.. the rarety off the williams Engine means F4R is more viable option and now theres alot of people that have done the F4R conversion, and all/most off them willing to help, it has to be the way to go.

I was going to do the conversion myself, had bought the engine and everything but at the time there was only 1 known conversion (Wayne from northants) and the extra cost/hassle involved ment i sold it all and got a williams engine and cammed it, now the difficults can be easily overcomed its not really a problem.

if your replacing a 2.0 in a mk1 then go for F4R.