My mates just found out his car is cat c

[R3k1355]

How is it possible for it to be HPI clear if it's been through as Cat D?

Was it not actually cat D when it went thru Copart perhaps?

 

[Arnie]

How is it possible for it to be HPI clear if it's been through as Cat D?

Was it not actually cat D when it went thru Copart perhaps?

It is a very long topic. It is even possible it was marked as Cat D but got removed later once insurance decided not to pay out on the claim. Or insurance company forgot to add the marker. Or someone removed it on purpose. Either way I feel sorry for the new owner as considering cat D is worth about 25% less it is 50k someone is being defrauded.

 

[Louis]

It is a very long topic. It is even possible it was marked as Cat D but got removed later once insurance decided not to pay out on the claim. Or insurance company forgot to add the marker. Or someone removed it on purpose. Either way I feel sorry for the new owner as considering cat D is worth about 25% less it is 50k someone is being defrauded.

But surely as it's not cat D no-one is being defrauded? The person who bought it can still sell it on as a non markered car? Its only if someone uses your website that they see otherwise

 

[Arnie]

But surely as it's not cat D no-one is being defrauded? The person who bought it can still sell it on as a non markered car? Its only if someone uses your website that they see otherwise

I think removing a marker is fraud as this increases the value by 25% straight away. Copart was told it was cat D so they did not take this info from thin air. I can tell for the fact only 97% insurance companies supply info to MIAFTR where HPI, Experian and others like me read data from. I feel this is fraud as if the car was not marked in the database due to loopholes it doesn't mean it should carry full value as it was subject to the accident as above for example and this is not right.

It is not cat D as this is what official database says, but if you had a friend who can remove markers for you that would be simple fraud, and there is no guarantee something like that did not happen with that Ferrari. You could make any car non-writeoff and that would be fraud.

Car was damaged, was at salvage, should be marked. End of story in my opinion.

 

[Louis]

I think removing a marker is fraud as this increases the value by 25% straight away. Copart was told it was cat D so they did not take this info from thin air. I can tell for the fact only 97% insurance companies supply info to MIAFTR where HPI, Experian and others like me read data from. I feel this is fraud as if the car was not marked in the database due to loopholes it doesn't mean it should carry full value as it was subject to the accident as above for example and this is not right.

It is not cat D as this is what official database says, but if you had a friend who can remove markers for you that would be simple fraud, and there is no guarantee something like that did not happen with that Ferrari. You could make any car non-writeoff and that would be fraud.

Car was damaged, was at salvage, should be marked. End of story in my opinion.

I understand that it's fraud in that respect, but its unmarkered and a car of full value which is crazy.
Is the person buying it being defrauded? The dealer could have been defrauded himself! Until the government start using resources like your own this will continue to happen

 

[Arnie]

I understand that it's fraud in that respect, but its unmarked and a car of full value which is crazy.
Is the person buying it being defrauded? The dealer could have been defrauded himself! Until the government start using resources like your own this will continue to happen

In this case, the dealer possibly was defrauded as well. The issue is other dealers abuse the system themselves. I have a short list of 100 cars which were advertised within 2 weeks of salvage auction. Some of those had "coming soon" image posted on the date auction finished and trust me they were not doing car valet and prepping it for sale by simple cleaning.

The whole system is broken and I am sure soon this will be replied to the general public. It is a matter of time.

 

[R-Sport.]

Experian is shite.

Ive just had to had NMR corrected via HPI because a car was showing as mileage discrepancy from 2015- owners experian check didnt show anything.

@mierzwin Good work that...
dont download your data onto the V6 forum christ there will be heart attacks lol.

 

[Gus]

Love it mate.

I chucked in my MK4 DCI that I know is a cat s write off but it doesn't pick it up on your website
GM14LNH -YELLOW CLIO
does it only search copart ?

 

[Arnie]

Love it mate.

I chucked in my MK4 DCI that I know is a cat s write off but it doesn't pick it up on your website
GM14LNH -YELLOW CLIO
does it only search copart ?

I cover around 38 salvage companies. But copart doest 4x what all other combined so most of the cars come from there.

I see you car was written off in 2017 and my data goes as far as 2015 but dont have this one.

There could be few reasons for this:
- car went via one company I have no access to, there is a couple I am on working on adding atm
- it was bought back by the previous owner after being written off so it never hit an auction

I can see it was insured by AGEAS INSURANCE LIMITED but no pictures sorry, I wish I had them all...

 

[Gus]

No worries , you are doing a fantastic job

 

[Arnie]

Love this! No need to explain anything again. I did not know AT will go into such detail!

The Great British car insurance write-off scandal | Auto Express

On the back of our exclusive investigation, organisations are now collaborating to find ‘missing’ damage-repaired cars

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[Sir_Dave]

It is a very long topic. It is even possible it was marked as Cat D but got removed later once insurance decided not to pay out on the claim. Or insurance company forgot to add the marker. Or someone removed it on purpose. Either way I feel sorry for the new owner as considering cat D is worth about 25% less it is 50k someone is being defrauded.

Dont they export them to remove the marker as well, then just bring them back over again and voila, no more Cat D?

Love this! No need to explain anything again. I did not know AT will go into such detail!

The Great British car insurance write-off scandal | Auto Express

On the back of our exclusive investigation, organisations are now collaborating to find ‘missing’ damage-repaired cars

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Great article, looks like you'll be getting the press you deserve!!

 

[R3k1355]

Dont they export them to remove the marker as well, then just bring them back over again and voila, no more Cat D?

Yes, but this Ferrari has the same numberplate it originally came with.
So it would be kinda weird if it somehow managed to keep the numberplate but the insurance details got erased.

I think the DVLA should step in here to sort things out, this bit in the article caught my attention:

Experian AutoCheck and HPI exclusively rely on the Motor Insurance Anti Fraud & Theft Register, or MIAFTR, to determine if a car has been written off.

Legally, insurers must inform the DVLA when a car is written off, but it is not a requirement for them to use MIAFTR

So if all insurers are legally required to inform the DVLA about write-offs then why does the HPI system rely on a third-party, optional database??
Why does the DVLA not make it's own database accessible to the public so they can quickly check if a car has been written off??

 

[Arnie]

Yes, but this Ferrari has the same numberplate it originally came with.
So it would be kinda weird if it somehow managed to keep the numberplate but the insurance details got erased.

I think the DVLA should step in here to sort things out, this bit in the article caught my attention:





So if all insurers are legally required to inform the DVLA about write-offs then why does the HPI system rely on a third-party, optional database??
Why does the DVLA not make it's own database accessible to the public so they can quickly check if a car has been written off??

That is the whole problem with current system I am glad everyone is picking it up you pay for reports from optional commercial database when DVLA should tell all this for free

Whats more you can go and Catrgory B vehicle and it will pass it. Not links between data either.

 

[Arnie]

I was supposed to say you can MOT cat B cant edit previous post anymore

 

[bloke]

Even hpi misses stuff. I sold an A4 to a trader few doors up from me, it was cat c, I knew the car for years, knew the details about the incident and damage, the car even had all the paperwork about the claim even down to the letter that came with the final settlement.

When he did an hpi check on it the car came back clear!!

 

[Short Norman]

@mierzwin say someone pays for a hpi check on a car and it come back clear. They then buy said car and then come across your vcheck site which shows the car as being written off. Wil the hpi check company then pay out?

 

[imprezaworks]

Would have thought it would be hpi's responsibility?

 

[Arnie]

@mierzwin say someone pays for a hpi check on a car and it come back clear. They then buy said car and then come across your vcheck site which shows the car as being written off. Wil the hpi check company then pay out?

I know the answer but I will let you explore. It is all in their T&Cs. Car has to be classified as "Total Loss", "Total Loss" = entry in MIAFTR. AutoExpress' article is all about cars not being on MIAFTR for various reasons. So if something is not on MIAFTR then HPI/Experian or even Vcheck is not to blame. I say this clearly in my T&Cs. If something was not on MIAFTR then you cannot claim but I am more open about it than big boys.

Additionally for the guarantee to work you need to enter VIN, VRM and V5 number before purchase. How many of us did this with HPI?

I looked at Experian T&Cs as well:

"At the time the Vehicle Check was performed, the vehicle was recorded as an insurance write-off by an insurer "

If a vehicle was not in MIAFTR and this is what can happen (missing, delay etc.) then at the time of your check it was not technically y classified as a write-off. Stupid but this is how it works.

But let's be honest, do you know a single person who managed to claim on such a guarantee?

I bought loads of popcorn already and only waiting for a word to spread and for first people to "try" to claim on those guarantees.

I have a few hundred cars, from eBay and such sites, which I know now sold and were subject to damage and salvage auction, all of them were described as an insurance write-off. Problem is DVLA is refusing details of those owners due to privacy laws so I cannot notify them. Yet still, you can pay £4 to get details to issue private parking ticket with no problems

 

[R3k1355]

To be fair is it HPI or Experian's fault that some cowboy has put a smashed up car back on the road and is selling it as mint condition?

They give you all the information they have, if a car isn't recorded it's not really their fault. They can't give you what they don't have, thats part of the problem with the current system.

 

[Arnie]

^^^ agree. Only fault their marketing makes you feel more protected as this is what those guarantees are. They are insurance policies to protect report provider.

 

[Arnie]

I hate no edit option protection is for Report Providers not consumers.

Still someone should take a blame, me thinks.

 

[cat171]

I hate no edit option protection is for Report Providers not consumers.

Still someone should take a blame, me thinks.

I randomly came across this on eBay.
How does this one work ? It says 100% not recorded HPI clear.. They also say it needs to be registered in the UK, so has it come from elsewhere ? and would be recorded on other databases ?

I'd say it's completely fucked!! They want £30k for it. The VIN is in the pics.

2017 Mercedes C63s AMG Coupe Edition 1 Motorsport , damaged repairable salvage | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2017 Mercedes C63s AMG Coupe Edition 1 Motorsport , damaged repairable salvage at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[R3k1355]

Might be imported from Ireland?

Could be Cat B over there for all anyone knows.

 

[Arnie]

That would be very hard to track right now as UK databases won't have this car yet. I searched via VIN and it did not come via any knows salvage site.

I will search via VIN for more details. Challenge accepted!

 

[Arnie]

Have not found anything about above Merc. It is a mystery where it came from to me...

On a side note, we have introduced bundles which give discounted prices:

https://www.vcheck.uk/bundles/

P.S. I am waiting for my Trader Invoice to arrive and will have my own section where will be posting dogy cars as often as we spot them and provide official forums discounts.

 

[Arnie]

Checked today via https://www.vcheck.uk. Bargain at 93k: https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201904157005167

Is anyone able to shed some light why is it HPI clear but not vcheck clear?

 

[stu8v]

Privately entered?

 

[Arnie]

Privately entered?

Yes. Link to AT is private sale as fat as I see.

 

[Arnie]

BBC One - Rip Off Britain

The Rip Off Britain team is ready to tackle the issues you feel affect you the most.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[R3k1355]

Awesome stuff!! Did you get interviewed on the show and everything?

 

[Arnie]

Awesome stuff!! Did you get interviewed on the show and everything?

This is not a story about me but rather about the issues of the system, There was no need to get involved and I am ugly as f*** do not good for TV

 

[R3k1355]

I am ugly as f*** do not good for TV

Yea but look at the old mutton they've got presenting the show

 

[cat171]

 

[Arnie]

Yea but look at the old mutton they've got presenting the show

If they added me I would lead the ugliness contest there On the other hand, the ugly ones get attention, and everyone is afraid of those pretty ones

 

[Silent_Scone]

Is that a private sale on the Porsche? Yes it is. Wonder if the owner has any idea.

 

[Arnie]

Is that a private sale on the Porsche? Yes it is. Wonder if the owner has any idea.

There is something more fishy as DVLA says last owner change was before salvage auction. Have a look at the below report.

https://www.vcheck.uk/report/RV17NMZ-W7WWOPU/

Possibly it is owned by a trader so not added an extra owner on V5, no idea here. Very odd.

 

[Silent_Scone]

A lot of money to throw down on a spud.

 

[_Tom]

Christ, only just read all this. Quite scary!

I must say I winced as I put my reg in to your site. Luckily all clear.

 

[Arnie]

Christ, only just read all this. Quite scary!

I must say I winced as I put my reg in to your site. Luckily all clear.

There is about 1 in 9 which are written-off.
There is about 1 in 10 writeoff which are missing from HPI.

So it escalates around 1-2% of all cars have hidden history.

Some say it is a low chance but even 1 in 100 cars to be written off with clear marker, considering how many are out there is quite a lot