need my 172 to handle better

[bez_2k9]

hi guys , iv got 40mm apex springs and standard shocks , i thought it handled mint because i can beat my mates round bends and round abouts , but 2nite i pushed it to its limits and felt comftable driving that fast but was not happy with the body roll , any1 got any advice on shocks i could invest in as i dont want to spend £700+ on coilovers???

iv also got OMP strut braces which tbf dont do anythin but while i was at oulton park track day on wednesday i noticed a beautiful white 172 on throttle bodies but that had a front strut brace i have not seen before , it was bolted underneeth the top mounts which actly looked like it would work compared to omp lol does any1 know what make this strut brace is ??

im also considering powerflex bushes and a roll cage to stiffen up the body , any1 got any other ideas ???


of to demon tweeks and COBRA 2mz to try get a gd bucket seat :approve: i want to start doing track days and the plan for april is to do low pressure k-tec turbo kit

cheers bez

 

[DrR]

New standard dampers + eibachs

 

[sideways danny]

New standard dampers + eibachs

pretty much this. Apex springs are bad, mmkay

 

[Phil @ P5]

OK, dampers aren't going to do anything about the amount the car rolls in a corner; that's a function of spring and ARB stiffness. Not enough experience with Apex to say whether they are bad or not, but swapping out springs and leaving OE dampers normally results in poorer performance. A 'lowering' spring will have a stiffer rate and the OE damper will be tuned to the softer OE spring, so you get all sorts of bad damping going on.

Stiffening the chassis is a good thing, but with some caveats. What you'll be doing is increasing the rigidity, which in turns allows the suspension to deal with more inputs than the chassis flexing. If you're suspension is un-sorted at the moment that could exacerbate the problem, so I think the suspension would be you're first point of call.

HTH

 

[Fletcher]

You don't want to spend £700 to make the handling better, but you'll going to get a low pressure turbo conversion fitted in the spring......right:S

 

[Jonny1*2]

As fletcher said, there is no point improving the power when you can't corner. If tracking is the way you're looking at going, suspension, tyres and brakes are what you'll need first.

 

[Turkish]

Suspension, brakes, tyres, lighten and only then worry about power tbh. I suspect like most people you would benefit more from getting some driver training rather than worrying about power hikes though.

 

[caister]

OK, dampers aren't going to do anything about the amount the car rolls in a corner; that's a function of spring and ARB stiffness. Not enough experience with Apex to say whether they are bad or not, but swapping out springs and leaving OE dampers normally results in poorer performance. A 'lowering' spring will have a stiffer rate and the OE damper will be tuned to the softer OE spring, so you get all sorts of bad damping going on.

Stiffening the chassis is a good thing, but with some caveats. What you'll be doing is increasing the rigidity, which in turns allows the suspension to deal with more inputs than the chassis flexing. If you're suspension is un-sorted at the moment that could exacerbate the problem, so I think the suspension would be you're first point of call.

HTH

Standard dampers work very well with Eibach springs. Dampers can help reduce body roll as a stiffer damper will resist the roll.

The chassis on these cars isn't particularly flexible so it would probably be a waste of money stiffening it unless hes going to out a cage in.

New OE dampers, Eibach springs and a white-line rear ARB will sort the handling out on a budget.

 

[Addz]

space the front wheels out a bit, the reason pug 205's and williams clio's handle so well is that they have a wider front track than the rear

 

[Ralphizzle]

And a Clio RS hasn't got a wider track already O.E.M. Dieppe?
Wondering now why our frontwings are more blistered over a non-RS Clio?

Aren't the Apex tighter wound like the Eibach?
Resisting initial roll and brake input (weight shifting!)...

 

[Ash - Clio GTT]

i have gone for eibach sportline springs and whiteline adjustable arb for the rear. just the right amount of roll at the front into a corner and nice and stiff at the back makes the turn in pin sharp. Also make sure you have good tyres, these will make a massive difference to how a car corners.

Other things to consider would be adjustable solid topmounts, getting the geometry setup properly and poly bushes if yours have seen better days. Beyond that it would have to be a decent set of coilovers that are realistically cost £800+ and setup on top.

as the song goes, its all about the money. You will get what you pay for.

 

[Addz]

And a Clio RS hasn't got a wider track already O.E.M. Dieppe?
Wondering now why our frontwings are more blistered over a non-RS Clio?

Aren't the Apex tighter wound like the Eibach?
Resisting initial roll and brake input (weight shifting!)...

good point.. well widen it some more :rasp:

 

[hopkinsgm]

Worth noting that the front track is already wider than the rear. Experience with other cars suggests that with the front track significantly wider than the rear, the back end will feel twitchy and nervous when cornering hard, and especially when braking hard. The flipside of this is that it can make for some hilarious lift off oversteer moments if you're alert.

Also, re: tyres - quality of tyres is a major factor, but having them at the correct pressure can make a massive difference. As to what is "correct", start at the "book" pressures and play about a bit - a couple of psi more or less can make a huge difference. Note that the "correct" pressure is likely to be different depending on what tyres you're using - tyreswith softer sidewalls tend to be happier at slightly higher pressures. Even if the local petrol station charges to use the air line, it's a pretty cheap modification that can have a major effect on how the car handles (and rides).

 

[bez_2k9]

hi thanks for the info , i have got toyo proxies all round , and it looks like the apex springs will be going up for sale lol
im getting 300mm 4 pot's the same time i do the turbo conversion
im not being big headed but iv done driving exsperences in lotus exige S and if i my mates carnt keep up with me round lanes in there focus RS which is 250bhp and civic type r which is 247bhp on coilovers it obvously not me , all im saying is that i want it to be more rigid so i am capable of going faster !!

thanks for all ur comments it has helped alot but has anyone hear of the strut brace i mentioned ??

 

[bez_2k9]

which springs are the ones you recomend ?

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=2469

http://www.k-tecracing.com/show_product.asp?id=849

 

[Daniel]

hi thanks for the info , i have got toyo proxies all round , and it looks like the apex springs will be going up for sale lol
im getting 300mm 4 pot's the same time i do the turbo conversion
im not being big headed but iv done driving exsperences in lotus exige S and if i my mates carnt keep up with me round lanes in there focus RS which is 250bhp and civic type r which is 247bhp on coilovers it obvously not me , all im saying is that i want it to be more rigid so i am capable of going faster !!

thanks for all ur comments it has helped alot but has anyone hear of the strut brace i mentioned ??

Bump steer, hedge, hospital.

Merry Christmas though.

 

[Gaz_]

Eaxctly. I've just thrown a set of second hand prolines on my car as i bought it with a broken spring. The more i drive it the more i like the travel slight body roll of it, its soaking up the bumps and lumps.......... I'm quite tempted to flog on the H&R's i've bought and uprate the shocks to adjustable Koni's......

 

[caister]

Bump steer, hedge, hospital.

Merry Christmas though.

Quite. Ive always been told that as soon as you think your an amazing driver its time to take a step back into reality!

 

[caister]

Eaxctly. I've just thrown a set of second hand prolines on my car as i bought it with a broken spring. The more i drive it the more i like the travel slight body roll of it, its soaking up the bumps and lumps.......... I'm quite tempted to flog on the H&R's i've bought and uprate the shocks to adjustable Koni's......

You wont be disappointed by the Koni Adjustible's + Eibach Pros

 

[Gaz_]

What to do lol!!! I like the more pointy/direct nature of the H&R's (had them before) but i know on a nice Welsh B road it gets thrown about somewhat...... the Koni's will be made for that imo

 

[Turkish]

Quite. Ive always been told that as soon as you think your an amazing driver its time to take a step back into reality!

On here it's the point at which you log on and post about how god like you are.

 

[Mark One]

the best handling modification i've ever experienced has been a stiffer rear ARB. Pretty well all FWD cars come setup to under steer as it's safer. You can get them back to a good balance by adding some roll stiffness to the rear

 

[DannyR]

I know you don't want to hear it but the best mod I ever done was fitting coilovers. Have a look in my project thread and on the first page you can see the improvements they made around track!

 

[subarufreak]

if you're not a fan of trackdays, but a good b-road would, springs help in any way???

I want mine lowered too, more for the looks but any handling improvement would be great

 

[caister]

if you're not a fan of trackdays, but a good b-road would, springs help in any way???

I want mine lowered too, more for the looks but any handling improvement would be great

Eibach springs and standard dampers are a great setup for B-Roads.

 

[Slammed172]

Well without going into the whole, whats better and what etc.

I started with Apex and standard shocks...SH1T

So i upgraded to 300 quid V-Maxx and they are a million times better than Apex.

Definally worth 300 quid.

 

[bez_2k9]

if you're not a fan of trackdays, but a good b-road would, springs help in any way???

I want mine lowered too, more for the looks but any handling improvement would be great

would you be intrested in buying my apex springs then if u want look aswel as abit of handerling , they do handle but i want alot beta for the track . there 40mm drop ??

 

[bez_2k9]

Well without going into the whole, whats better and what etc.

I started with Apex and standard shocks...SH1T

So i upgraded to 300 quid V-Maxx and they are a million times better than Apex.

Definally worth 300 quid.

see i dont mind paying £300 for coilovers but noticed people on here aint a fan of v-maxx ....... iv manged to find a gd price for bilstein shockers all round and eibach springs which comes to around £300 aswel , and defo getting the white-line rear ARB

 

[subarufreak]

would you be intrested in buying my apex springs then if u want look aswel as abit of handerling , they do handle but i want alot beta for the track . there 40mm drop ??

I want Eibachs myself and a 30mm drop

also, here in Belgian there are a lot of rules considering modifications

I need to get them placed by a specialist, who can deliver me the correct paperwork, then have to go to the MOT
then some more paperwork and that should by ok for the annual mot then...

sorry

 

[Tucker]

see i dont mind paying £300 for coilovers but noticed people on here aint a fan of v-maxx

Actually I think you'l find the opposite on here,

Vmaxx are very good for the money, and a massive improvement over apex springs and standard worn shocks.

 

[bez_2k9]

ok no problems subarufreak was worth a try


ok what do people think of ebiach springs with bilstein shocks TO V-maxx coilovers ??

sorry to be a pain