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Oil - You get what you pay for!



A word of caution – You get what you pay for!

Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R & D Chemist for 40 years.

John Rowland said:
Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils. The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions.

We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”.

Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!

Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”?

Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”.

Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight!
They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.

So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics!

The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case.

But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil.

This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for!

This article is something that all car owners should read and understand before buying oil and I’ve posted this with Johns permission.

Cheers
Simon
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  Focus ST
Unless you live in Germany, in which case they have to state on the can whether it is a genuine PAO/Ester synthetic or a hydrocracked mineral. I think oil manufacturers should have to adhere to those rules everywhere!
 
  Skoda Fabia vRS
oilman what kind of quality is the Shell 5W-40 fully synthetic ?

is it a proper synthetic ?

it doesnt seem as pricey as Silkolene but its more expensive than the 'cheap' synthetics
 
  172 ph1 ASBO SLAYER
i can only get deals on Millers and Morris's oil
i know Millers are the b****cks but this time i had to use Morris's 5/40 fully synthetic, any good? :)
 
BRUN said:
oilman what kind of quality is the Shell 5W-40 fully synthetic ?

is it a proper synthetic ?

it doesnt seem as pricey as Silkolene but its more expensive than the 'cheap' synthetics

It's a hydrocracked oil, not in the same league as ester based ones like Silkolene and Motul and almost the same price per litre as well.

They do have Ferrari on the bottle though ;)

Cheers
Simon
 
  Renault Clio 182 Trophy
For the Trophy 5W/40 is specified - is that correct if using a 'top' grade synthetic. BTW where does Mobil One stand in your league?
 
I agree what you pay for is what you get.

I doudt if any one here has run an engine for 36000 hours non stop.

If you use the right oil and the right filtration you can.

I have done it .
 
John V6 said:
I agree what you pay for is what you get.

I doudt if any one here has run an engine for 36000 hours non stop.

If you use the right oil and the right filtration you can.

I have done it .

Indeed, we ran an Elise with a Honda engine in it (tuned) in the Britcar 24 hour race at Silverstone this year on the same oil for the full 24 hours!

Of course it was a true pao/ester synthetic.

Cheers
Simon
 
  FF 182, K5 GSX-R1000
I have Silkolene :)

Just out of interest tho what about:
Castrol RS
Halfords fully synthetic

This was on another Forum and wondered if correct?
Halfords 5W40 fully synthetic oil is actually made by Comma and is the same as Comma Syner-G 5W40 which is fairly readily available at smaller car shops for around £25.

Esso do actually own Comma; but Halfords 5W40 synth/Comma Syner-G is not the same oil as Esso 5W40 Ultron even though they all meet the same spec.

So the choice is yours, pay £17.31 for 5 litres of Halfords(Comma) synthetic oil or pay £30+ for 4 litres of Esso Ultron plus £8 for a litre (total £38). Best plan is to go for the Halfords oil and change it twice as often as the manufacturer specifies (about 5000-6000 miles as HJ constantly recommends.)
 
Castrol RS 0w-40 pao
Halfords 5w-40 hydrocracked

Halfords oil is made by Esso currently and to a minimum spec/budget.

Cheers
Simon
 
Holy Thread Resurrection!

Interesting though that the first post quotes Chief R&D Chemist for Fuchs as I can get 5 litres of Fuchs Semi-synth 10w40 oil for £15...
 

Gally

Formerly Mashed up egg in a cup
ClioSport Club Member
How do we know which is best?

Mobil1
Castrol
Pennzoil
Elf ect...
 
Pro S is top end stuff, as good as oil gets. Gally, I can't really answer your question as apart from Mobil 1, the rest are brands that produce several different oils of varying quality. Mobil 1 is pretty good, a proper synthetic, the step below the top end oils like the Pro S

All oils are comprised of basestocks and additives. Basestocks make up the majority of the finished product and represent between 75-95%.

Not all basestocks are derived from petroleum, in fact the better quality ones are synthetics made in laboratories by chemists specifically designed for the application for which they are intended.

Basestocks are classified in 5 Groups as follows:

Group I

These are derived from petroleum and are the least refined. These are used in a small amount of automotive oils where the applications are not demanding.

Group II

These are derived from petroleum and are mainly used in mineral automotive oils. Their performance is acceptable with regards to wear, thermal stability and oxidation stability but not so good at lower temperatures.

Group III

These are derived from petroleum but are the most refined of the mineral oil basestocks. They are not chemically engineered like synthetics but offer the highest level of performance of all the petroleum basestocks. They are also known as “hydrocracked” or “molecularly modified” basestocks.
They are usually labelled/marketed as synthetic or semi-synthetic oils and make up a very high percentage of the oils retailed today.

Group IV

These are polyalphaolefins known as PAO and are chemically manufactured rather than being dug out of the ground. These basestocks have excellent stability in both hot and cold temperatures and give superior protection due to their uniform molecules. (Mobil 1 is a group IV)

Group V

These special basestocks are also chemically engineered but are not PAO.
The main types used in automotive oils are diesters and polyolesters. Like the group IV basestocks they have uniform molecules and give superior performance and protection over petroleum basestocks. These special stocks are used in all aviation engines due to their stability and durability. Esters are also polar (electro statically attracted to metal surfaces) which has great benefits. They are usually blended with Group IV stocks rather than being used exclusively. (Pro S has a Group V base)

It is common practice for oil companies to blend different basestocks to achieve a certain specification, performance or cost. The blending of group IV and V produces lubricants with the best overall performance which cannot be matched by any of the petroleum basestock groups.
 
Last edited:
Tim what do you recommend in my Twingo 133? K4M engine 1.6

I guess it's still under warranty, so you need an oil that meets the Renault 710 spec, so here are some suitable ones

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-878-mot...ine-diesel-lubricant-for-euro-iv-engines.aspx
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-60457-castrol-edge-5w-40-a3b4-advanced-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-60166-fuchs-titan-gt1-5w-40-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx

Out of those, the Castrol and Fuchs are the best (and the Castrol is on offer), but they are all good oils.

Cheers

Tim
 

Gally

Formerly Mashed up egg in a cup
ClioSport Club Member
Are performance oils okay to use in standard cars aslong as it's the correct one 5w/40 or whatever.
 

Chris205

ClioSport Club Member
  Many Things
Out of interest, is millers race oil any good? My brother used it in his Civic Type-R and it seemed to work very very well, was thinking of using the same in the trophy?
 
Yes, most race type oils are fine for road use, very few aren't.

Millers CFS is top quality stuff, ideal for road and track use.
 
  Clio 197
I have tried a few oils in my previous cars, its all down to personal preference and your budget...its far more important to ensure regular changes IMHO rather than which brand is "best" (providing it meets the viscosity and specs you need)
 
Yes and no. Regular changes can be important, but even if you change a basic oil every couple of weeks, it still won't give as good protection as a top end oil changed annually or at 10k
 
  Inferno 182 CUP
I guess it's still under warranty, so you need an oil that meets the Renault 710 spec, so here are some suitable ones

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-878-mot...ine-diesel-lubricant-for-euro-iv-engines.aspx
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-60457-castrol-edge-5w-40-a3b4-advanced-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx
http://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-60166-fuchs-titan-gt1-5w-40-synthetic-engine-oil.aspx

Out of those, the Castrol and Fuchs are the best (and the Castrol is on offer), but they are all good oils.

Cheers

Tim

Forget warranty thats long void.

Whats best?
 


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