OK, I give up. Coilovers...enlighten me?

[MarkCup]

I'd want something that is perfectly usable day-to-day (300 miles per week commuting), but that has enough adjustment to get it really focussed and firm on track so I can make the most of the track tyres. Maybe then I'd have gotten past that pesky F430 :rasp:

What options do I have?

What do you recommend?

Is there anything else I'd need to do to get the most out of the setup?

Thanks.

 

[Johnc172]

I know I'm gonna get shot down for saying this but.....I bought a set of GAZ coilovers for mine and fitted them last week for the renault track day.

Day to day (i use mine about the same amount of miles) i have them on the softest setting and they are only a little more bumpy (if not the same!) Handling is also a little tighter than standard when on the softest setting.

When the track day came round i stiffened them up and they were fantastic, no roll, no understeer, they were great.

When i bought them and I posted on here about getting them, people said they were rubbish and i should sell them (haha!) I think they are great and much better than standard set up!

Anyway, thats my opinion, others will certainly differ!

 

[Dubai182]

What sort of budget do you have Mark?That's usually the overall riding factor when buying coilovers

 

[Maz]

Would't touch Gaz, gash handling/crashy dampers .

H&R are very well respected on here, there was a guy in car parts for sale section selling some he works for a company that supplies them so should be able to get you a good price

 

[Turkish]

Yup budget will dictate what you are looking at and tbh if it's limited i'd be inclined to buy dearer spring/damper package than a cheap coilover package tbh.

As for setup the likes of mark fish are well respected, i used a local place that has laser alignment kit and sets up alot of competition/hillclimb/track cars. about 1.5 to 2 degree's of negative camber seems to be a good compramise between road/track work.

 

[MarkCup]

Budget? Money is almost not a factor, getting a solution that's set up right is more important.

 

[Turkish]

If you can I'd see if any CS'ers with some of the various kits will let you have a drive of their cars but if you arent limited by budget you're looking at H&R, billies or LEDAs. H&R's are a smoother ride for day to day/road use but some have said they feel a little on the soft side for track, the Billies are a bit firmer so not as good on poor road surfaces as the H&R's but a bit better suited to track and the LEDA's have adjustable damping (that works unlike the GAZ) so should be able to dial in settings you are happy with for both after spending some time playing with them.

 

[MarkM]

I use mine everyday to commute down roads with speed bumps etc.

Something with adjustable damping that you can back off for the road and tighten up for track sounds like a requirement. Dont set them to low and allow for some travel on the road and you will not find them uncomfortable.

Always budget proper alignment if you go for coilovers.

 

[MarkM]

Budget? Money is almost not a factor, getting a solution that's set up right is more important.

How big of an almost is that. Ledas properly setup will cost 1.5k.

 

[BenR]

Leda.......i run them on my daily cars.

The benefit unlike other shocks is that their 28 point adjustment does not alter the compression/bump ratio across that range. Whereas other dampers will only have the correct 'ratio' in the middle ground of the damper settings. Hence why they are better for broad scope condition use.

 

[christurbo]

Personally If your buying the coilovers for your exploits on the track I wouldnt buy HR's due to the lack of adjustability and softness.

I chose Koni - fully adjustable.... They are very good IMO.

 

[stew_punk]

cant say good enough things about my avo's for my mk1 track clio. for the price they are spot on. many of the mk1 lads run them!

 

[leighk18]

i have a mk 2 ph 1 and thinking bout getting some coilovers but wont be tracking the car if i do will be very rare so which are best to buy want low of bout 60 mm also what do you do with the back do they come with springs etc for back no idea how they work

 

[BenR]

Personally If your buying the coilovers for your exploits on the track I wouldnt buy HR's due to the lack of adjustability and softness.

I chose Koni - fully adjustable.... They are very good IMO.

Not a fan of konis low cost offerings, they always break.

 

[Ali]

Mark...I've just ordered Fk's! More than happy to give you a shot! I had them on my 1.2 and loved them. You will not notice a HUGE diff between the elite and FK's! I've driven a 172 on Leda's/Eibac's/Apex and what ever's on stoddies.

Spk to john2modified for an awsum price!

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

Mark, you've seen my car...H&R...end of!

No seriously, H&R's are the nuts. Mine have been on for about 40,000 miles now and I've never found them uncomfortable or had any problems with them. Done about 7-8 trackdays and 4 ring trips on them too. Plus I used to do 110 miles a day commuting.

They are MUCH better than standard in all respects. They sort out all types of bump and compose the car much better. Plus you don't need them on the deck so you can't go over anything.

Without a doubt THE best, and to be totally honest, probably the only mod you need to do to a cup imho. You get what you pay for. As mentioned before about the GAZ and lack of road testing, with the H&R's they're thoroughly tested hence the price.

Get them, Loony, Dan, IainC and my test pilot Jon_r and anyone else with them will back me up

The ledas on steves car are very nice too, if i had more cash then i'd go for those. Best person ask is Jon, he pimps out all our cars on track, lol.

 

[christurbo]

Personally If your buying the coilovers for your exploits on the track I wouldnt buy HR's due to the lack of adjustability and softness.

I chose Koni - fully adjustable.... They are very good IMO.

Not a fan of konis low cost offerings, they always break.

Thats why they cost almost the same as HRs and were used std on Lotus etc.

They are also the weapon of choice for the avid 205 GTI track day users.

Horses for courses IMO.


Before listening to many people on here who fob off any other brand other than their own.... its best to try out each setup at track day....

I had Billie LSS Exige spec suspension on my VX220 and the Koni's on my Clio feel just as good.

 

[Ali]

^I agree. Those Koni's are they the KW variables!? Stoddie's was fantastic!

Too many know-it-all's on here!

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

I only speak of what I know, haven't tried others.

 

[Turkish]

Not a fan of konis low cost offerings, they always break.

Thats why they cost almost the same as HRs and were used std on Lotus etc.

They are also the weapon of choice for the avid 205 GTI track day users.

Horses for courses IMO.


Before listening to many people on here who fob off any other brand other than their own.... its best to try out each setup at track day....

I had Billie LSS Exige spec suspension on my VX220 and the Koni's on my Clio feel just as good.

H&R's are standard on GT3s (thats a proper sports car not a bathtub with a k series in it )

I've had several different set ups now on my own car an driven a few others who've had varying spring/shock set ups and I'd stick with the H&R's personally.

 

[polty16v]

Can anyone advise me on what coilover setup is best (in their opinion) for a mk1 valver?

 

[BenR]

I think what everybody is missing the point here is subjectiveness.

He is going tracking, and the H&R's just arent stiff enough.........period........if your a serious tracker. Superb daily coilover, and probably the best for the road.........but not the track.

As for all these manufacturers being OE equipment on fancy smancy cars.......they have development periods and budgets......they arent buying off H&R's or KONI's shelves.........they TELL them what they want.......they dont hand over a elise or gt3 and ask them to come back when its 'good'.

As for people fobbing off everything but their own brand...........if you read all your posts, that is EXACTLY what you are all doing. I DO NOT sell ANY suspension equipment, but have driven all of the setups available bar the FK's, my opinion is based on the 14 years i spent competing......not because i want a sale.

I buy leda for all my personal cars because i like them and feel they are the best bang for the buck.........£1500 is pennies in the grand scheme of suspension and what it means to your cars dynamics. Hell, £1500 a corner is cheap for good handling car.

 

[Ali]

^ Failing that ben recommends Chopped springs!

 

[BenR]

Or old tyres jubileed clipped to the damper shafts.

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

I think what everybody is missing the point here is subjectiveness.

He is going tracking, and the H&R's just arent stiff enough.........period........if your a serious tracker. Superb daily coilover, and probably the best for the road.........but not the track.

As for all these manufacturers being OE equipment on fancy smancy cars.......they have development periods and budgets......they arent buying off H&R's or KONI's shelves.........they TELL them what they want.......they dont hand over a elise or gt3 and ask them to come back when its 'good'.

As for people fobbing off everything but their own brand...........if you read all your posts, that is EXACTLY what you are all doing. I DO NOT sell ANY suspension equipment, but have driven all of the setups available bar the FK's, my opinion is based on the 14 years i spent competing......not because i want a sale.

I buy leda for all my personal cars because i like them and feel they are the best bang for the buck.........£1500 is pennies in the grand scheme of suspension and what it means to your cars dynamics. Hell, £1500 a corner is cheap for good handling car.

What about the point he does 300 miles a week for commuting/work?

You have to compromise.

The Leda's I've driven are spot on.

 

[christurbo]

I think what everybody is missing the point here is subjectiveness.

He is going tracking, and the H&R's just arent stiff enough.........period........if your a serious tracker. Superb daily coilover, and probably the best for the road.........but not the track.

As for all these manufacturers being OE equipment on fancy smancy cars.......they have development periods and budgets......they arent buying off H&R's or KONI's shelves.........they TELL them what they want.......they dont hand over a elise or gt3 and ask them to come back when its 'good'.

As for people fobbing off everything but their own brand...........if you read all your posts, that is EXACTLY what you are all doing. I DO NOT sell ANY suspension equipment, but have driven all of the setups available bar the FK's, my opinion is based on the 14 years i spent competing......not because i want a sale.

I buy leda for all my personal cars because i like them and feel they are the best bang for the buck.........£1500 is pennies in the grand scheme of suspension and what it means to your cars dynamics. Hell, £1500 a corner is cheap for good handling car.

That was not directed at you Ben...... Its the impression I got from others when I first joined on here deciding whether or not to buy a 172 to track and what parts to buy.

In my posts and blog enteries I have only posted information on my experiences, I cannot comment on things I havent bought or tried.....

PS... Ben I have found your posts to be most informative to me when I was searching this forum for information regarding my own 172s setup.

 

[BenR]

I think what everybody is missing the point here is subjectiveness.

He is going tracking, and the H&R's just arent stiff enough.........period........if your a serious tracker. Superb daily coilover, and probably the best for the road.........but not the track.

As for all these manufacturers being OE equipment on fancy smancy cars.......they have development periods and budgets......they arent buying off H&R's or KONI's shelves.........they TELL them what they want.......they dont hand over a elise or gt3 and ask them to come back when its 'good'.

As for people fobbing off everything but their own brand...........if you read all your posts, that is EXACTLY what you are all doing. I DO NOT sell ANY suspension equipment, but have driven all of the setups available bar the FK's, my opinion is based on the 14 years i spent competing......not because i want a sale.

I buy leda for all my personal cars because i like them and feel they are the best bang for the buck.........£1500 is pennies in the grand scheme of suspension and what it means to your cars dynamics. Hell, £1500 a corner is cheap for good handling car.

What about the point he does 300 miles a week for commuting/work?

You have to compromise.

The Leda's I've driven are spot on.

Thats my point!

The 28 point adjustability on the ledas allows you to specifically keep a harmonious bump/rebound damping ratio whether you are at the softest or hardest setting. UNlike shimstack setups which use the flexing of shim washers as valves, they are setup to work over a narrow range (leaving you either too hard on bump OR compression at either end of the hard/soft adjustment range), which is fine if your quite happy to revalve for every change in surface quality and condition......but none of us can.

I do all daily milage on my leda equipped card..........thousands of miles a year, 40 miles a day average down only B roads.

 

[BenR]

I think what everybody is missing the point here is subjectiveness.

He is going tracking, and the H&R's just arent stiff enough.........period........if your a serious tracker. Superb daily coilover, and probably the best for the road.........but not the track.

As for all these manufacturers being OE equipment on fancy smancy cars.......they have development periods and budgets......they arent buying off H&R's or KONI's shelves.........they TELL them what they want.......they dont hand over a elise or gt3 and ask them to come back when its 'good'.

As for people fobbing off everything but their own brand...........if you read all your posts, that is EXACTLY what you are all doing. I DO NOT sell ANY suspension equipment, but have driven all of the setups available bar the FK's, my opinion is based on the 14 years i spent competing......not because i want a sale.

I buy leda for all my personal cars because i like them and feel they are the best bang for the buck.........£1500 is pennies in the grand scheme of suspension and what it means to your cars dynamics. Hell, £1500 a corner is cheap for good handling car.

That was not directed at you Ben...... Its the impression I got from others when I first joined on here deciding whether or not to buy a 172 to track and what parts to buy.

In my posts and blog enteries I have only posted information on my experiences, I cannot comment on things I havent bought or tried.....

PS... Ben I have found your posts to be most informative to me when I was searching this forum for information regarding my own 172s setup.

Yea, i understand, no worries.

Problem is i'm highly anal about suspension components and geometry, which is why i dont offer the service......i think i would piss off customers.

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

Like I said, Ledas would be on my car if I had the money

The next best is H&R from what I know.

 

[MarkCup]

OK, interesting so far.

What about adjustability? Is it really necessary?

Surely the set-up I need on track to work the best from the sticky rubber has to be so hard it would be unusable on the road normally, hence the adjustment needed?

How many people run adjustable units, and actually do adjust them for track work?

 

[BenR]

Correct, you need adjustment.

If the day is cold or wet, hot or dry, you can adjust the bias between front and rear to get things more stable, understeery or oversteery depending on the circut and its charateristics.

Bring a pyrometer to test tyre temps and spread and you can adjust to best balance tyre temps and grip.

 

[clarkiev6]

getting worried about sunday???lol

i got AVO adjustables on the 5 turbo mate...excellent and very cheap...100 quid per corner.

had to use original springs tho...forgot that bit..

 

[John D]

getting worried about sunday???lol

i got AVO adjustables on the 5 turbo mate...excellent and very cheap...100 quid per corner.

had to use original springs tho...forgot that bit..

LOL

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

Not nesessarily, stiffer isn't always the best. It depends on the track.

You would probably run bedford with a lot stiffer setup than if you were driving the ring or and oulton park style track. If that makes sense? But it essentially is up to what you prefer, I would rather have a stiffer setup all round but I'm stuck with the H&R's. As said, Jon would be a good person to ask as he's driven all and defnately knows what he's doing on track.

 

[Turkish]

Be interesting to see whether uprated rollbar would be enough to tighten things up a bit in very hard cornering but without suffering the over firm or crashy ride from stiffer springs or dampers.

 

[MarkCup]

OK, that makes sense...I'd be more than happy adjusting for different circuit conditions and chassis balance.

I'm assuming the Leda's aren't a nightmare to adjust? I remember the old days on bikes with skinned knuckles from C-spanner efforts gone wrong. It's not like that anymore I hope?

 

[christurbo]

Easily adjustable from strut mounts.... IIRC. Same as my setup.

 

[Fred@BTM]

LEDA's and barge pole springs to mind, thats just me

no one has said Bilstein yet, they're the one's i'd be bolting if i were you Mark, you know me and Yoz tell it how it is

 

[christurbo]

I mentioned that Fred.... had them on my VX S2 Exige spec.

 

[CHRIS172CUP]

H&R use Bilstien shocks anyway, it's just labelling.

Leda's are easily adjusted.

Fred, is it the same spring and platform setup as H&R's on the Bilstiens for the rear? Would a stiffer spring be worthwhile on mine?!