PMS Power Steering Delete?

[bvnditi]

Ey up!

I'm looking at the PMS power steering delete kit for my 182, given I've owned a few other cars with manual racks (1275cc Mini heritage racecar, N14 Sunny, and a couple of old Civics) and prefer it for spirited driving. It's never really been a bother for daily driving, I lived with daily driving my P/S-less N14 Sunny for a year and it never got on my tits.

What experience do people have with the kit, the install process etc? Anything to look out for or precautions to take?

I've also been told about mating a 1.2 rack to a 182 column as the 1.2 rack lacks the lines/hoses etc. What's the crack there?

Looking at doing it as a weekend job on a mate's 2-poster. Just wanted to check if it was worth it & hoping it won't turn into more than a weekend job 😁

Cheers!

 

[S24NRC]

We fitted it in conjunction with EPAS to a mates 172. Rather uneventful, but we did rip out a dead Hydraulic PAS system with no intention of using it again.

 

[bvnditi]

We fitted it in conjunction with EPAS to a mates 172. Rather uneventful, but we did rip out a dead Hydraulic PAS system with no intention of using it again.

Got it. So it can be fitted alongside an EPAS conversion, or just be used to completely blank everything off and go manual rack aye?

 

[S24NRC]

Got it. So it can be fitted alongside an EPAS conversion, or just be used to completely blank everything off and go manual rack aye?

Its basically an idler pulley. I think you might need the blanks for depowering the factory rack too, or alternatively you can fit an EPAS rack, I believe the 1.5 dci is the best bet for it.

 

[Myfanwyi Saunfire]

PMS power steering delete is usually used in conjunction with an EPAS kit. You'll want the blanking plugs and a link pipe ideally.
Can get that all from these guys - https://www.brtmotorsport.co.uk/collections/clio-172-182-quick-rack
DCI rack works well but if you're in for a penny and a pound, quick rack makes for a very nice addition.

 

[bvnditi]

Good to know. I've read mixed things about the EPAS setup and being fresh off an EPAS car (Jazz Si with a CRZ steering rack and heavy fettling) I'd like to stay away from electric steering on personal preference.

Forgive my ignorance, but is there such thing as going manual rack with a quick rack? Appreciate the BRT ones need EPAS.

 

[S24NRC]

I can't see why it wouldn't work with no PAS. I believe EPAS and PAS rack casings are different so maybe its designed to build into a EPAS rack. Best bets probs to just drop them an email I imagine.

I will add that the EPAS conversions are quite nice because they come with a manual potentiometer to set the assist amount. Means you can whack it up so youre not sweating buckets pootling round and turn it all the way off for when you're on track.

 

[Brigsy]

The hydraulic/oem rack has a pinion with torsion damper on it which gives a dead spot before turning. If going manual or epas, fit a dci rack as they dont have it and they have solid subframe mounts instead of the bushed oem setup.

1.2 rack also has more turns lock to lock than oem or dci.

 

[Myfanwyi Saunfire]

Forgive my ignorance, but is there such thing as going manual rack with a quick rack? Appreciate the BRT ones need EPAS.

Absolutely not, unless you've got arms three times the size of @Brigsy 🦾😂

What you want from them is just the blanking plugs and steering link pipe.
Works on the DCI rack too which would be your best bet.

 

[bvnditi]

The hydraulic/oem rack has a pinion with torsion damper on it which gives a dead spot before turning. If going manual or epas, fit a dci rack as they dont have it and they have solid subframe mounts instead of the bushed oem setup.

1.2 rack also has more turns lock to lock than oem or dci.

Got you, thanks for that dude! Sounds like DCI rack's the motive then.

 

[bvnditi]

Absolutely not, unless you've got arms three times the size of @Brigsy 🦾😂

What you want from them is just the blanking plugs and steering link pipe.
Works on the DCI rack too which would be your best bet.

Weighing in at a solid 52kg means that I probably don't stand a chance in that instance

So by the sounds of it then, DCI rack, PMS kit, call it a day aye?

 

[Myfanwyi Saunfire]

Weighing in at a solid 52kg means that I probably don't stand a chance in that instance

So by the sounds of it then, DCI rack, PMS kit, call it a day aye?

I mean, EPAS would probably be a benefit.

 

[bvnditi]

I mean, EPAS would probably be a benefit.

I'm incredibly averse to EPAS boss! I know your fine word is gospel, so I know you'll give me a straight answer when I double-check "is manual rack genuinely that bad for hard driving?"

If so, I'll just fix my current rack up as it's got a slight leak and then leave as-is.

 

[MAXRUNDOWN]

What are you aiming to achieve here? Going manual steering isn't going to improve the steering feel.

People ditch the hydraulic steering to get rid of the PAS pump and tidy up the aux drive stuff on the front of the engine, and/or to get rid of the hydraulic rack on turbo cars because the downpipe is close to it and can boil the fluid. Or because they want to fit a quick rack which requires an EPAS conversation.

If you have just got a PAS fluid leak just fix it.

 

[Myfanwyi Saunfire]

I'm incredibly averse to EPAS boss! I know your fine word is gospel, so I know you'll give me a straight answer when I double-check "is manual rack genuinely that bad for hard driving?"

If so, I'll just fix my current rack up as it's got a slight leak and then leave as-is.

As @MAXRUNDOWN says matey, horses for courses.

No one really runs manual steering. Even without a quick rack, you’re going to need arms like the hulk. It’s not going to achieve much other than tiring you out.

To give you an idea, I run EPAS because I have a quick rack that is 1.9 turns lock to lock over the 2.8 from factory. You’re not turning the wheel with EPAS turned off.

I went that route as the PAS pumps are prone to fail on track. So it reduces the risk of a few factors - boiling PAS fluid - pump seizing - aux belt failure.

Then theres the advantage of less rotational mass, less for the engine to do.

If it’s just to fix a leak..
Well, I’d just fix the leak.

 

[bvnditi]

Gotchu, the powers that be have spoken and I shall heed that - that’s a really helpful explanation of things. That’s got it into my brain and makes sense across the board, so thanks for running me through all of it.

Still got the proverbial L plates on when it comes to figuring out Clio tuning, so thanks for answering my silly questions with sincerity 🫡📝