Project 432 - Mk1 Track Car

[hardy]

Thanks for uploading your progress photos! I am currently restoring Clio Dimma 31, I was concerned about cutting away the rotten inner sill around the seat rails until I had the rest of it welded up as they are the only things attaching the inner to the floor pan at the moment. I see you found a novel solution.... Same difference I guess :wink:

What are the specs on the Safrane hubs ? Do they allow for bigger discs / caliper upgrade. I was thinking about fitting 172 hubs/discs/calipers as by all accounts they are more than sufficient in terms of stoppage.

No worries. It's been long overdue anyway!
I bet that will be a fun project!
I was a bit unsure how to tackle the inner sill at first but once I started cutting away it became more apparent.
The idea behind getting the Safrane hubs is to enable me to change the roll centre like one the Clio cup race cars. These fit differently to the 172 ones as the ball joint needs to be changed for a rose jointed one and an adaptor/pin needs to be put in place between the hub and ball joint to achieve the roll centre correction (moving the front axle centre line further away from the wishbone ball joint).
The 172 calipers/disc setup is certainly more than enough. I ran this for a good amount of years. It is an easy upgrade once you drill out the holes for the damper/strut. However, I used Megane coupe 1.6 16v hubs as they have smaller drive splines that are more suited to the valver/Williams shafts.
I have a full brake swap available with brand new discs and used Carbon Lorraine RC6 pads. Just pm me if you are interested.
Cheers Josh

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Lordy that has some rot in it. Fair play for fixing that, many wouldn't have bothered!

Are the Safrane hubs as used on the MK1 Cup cars? Am I right in thinking the 172 used Laguna hubs?

I would really love a MK1. I have a 1/18 model of one of the DIAC Group A 16S rally cars, and it just makes me want a real one!

 

[NaplesMark16v]

Nice to see someone else taking pride in a valver! I've got 2 to do and all I keep getting is why don't you get rid. That's some brilliant welding work there btw, Better than most "reputable body shops"
Off topic but is the welder any good? I was looking at getting one of these but never really heard anything about them.
Cheers and good luck with the rest of the work!
Mark

 

[hardy]

Lordy that has some rot in it. Fair play for fixing that, many wouldn't have bothered!

Are the Safrane hubs as used on the MK1 Cup cars? Am I right in thinking the 172 used Laguna hubs?

I would really love a MK1. I have a 1/18 model of one of the DIAC Group A 16S rally cars, and it just makes me want a real one!

Thanks for the boost! Yeah I have had A LOT of people say 'why are you bothering?' But the answer is always 'why not?'.
Yeah.... About that. I cocked up with that one. I now have the correct hubs off a 1994-1998 Laguna 2.2D. There are distinct differences between the Laguna and Safrane hubs one major one being the hub-to-strut mounting offset from the inner side of the bearing being 14mm different. This would have a massive difference!

I've also had a very similar model of the Williams DIAC car! Embedded from an early age!

Cheers, Josh

 

[hardy]

Nice to see someone else taking pride in a valver! I've got 2 to do and all I keep getting is why don't you get rid. That's some brilliant welding work there btw, Better than most "reputable body shops"
Off topic but is the welder any good? I was looking at getting one of these but never really heard anything about them.
Cheers and good luck with the rest of the work!
Mark

Thanks for the comments!
Yeah it seems to be a massive trend of scrapping Valvers in the hope to get one without rust. One is enough for me though! Ha

Thanks! I'm trying to make the car last at least another 20odd years so I better do it properly. Plus m grandad used to be in the bodywork trade so he has given me quite a few pointers etc as I don't work in bodywork. All a learning curve.

Yeah the R-Tech welder is mega. It does exactly what I want from it. The guys at R-Tech are also very nice to deal with. Certainly worth spending money with them.

Cheers, Josh

 

[hardy]

Bit more of an update of progress:

12/11/2015
Did a bit more on the floor/sill/drivers footwell.

During all this, my Laguna hubs arrived!
Laguna 2.2D hub on the Left, Safrane on the Right.

You can see that there is a noticeable offset difference between the hub face and the top of the hub (hub-to-strut mounting). After measuring, the Safrane hub has 14mm more offset than the Laguna one.

Laguna:

Safrane:

Finally, after faffing with the hubs, I added a small plate to the floor panel.

Cheers for looking.
Josh

 

[M4ck1]

Looks like some top work! !
Just doing up my Williams. Amazing how much rust you find once you start digging with a screwdriver.
I've already repaired the box section around the torsion bar mount and rear left wheel arch. I've repaired the inner sill and know fitting the outer sill. Also on the to do list is drivers side outer/ inner sill and inner wheel arch not looking forward to that one.
Good luck and keep up the good work and pictures.:up::smiley:

 

[hardy]

Looks like some top work! !
Just doing up my Williams. Amazing how much rust you find once you start digging with a screwdriver.
I've already repaired the box section around the torsion bar mount and rear left wheel arch. I've repaired the inner sill and know fitting the outer sill. Also on the to do list is drivers side outer/ inner sill and inner wheel arch not looking forward to that one.
Good luck and keep up the good work and pictures.:up::smiley:

Thanks!
Yeah once the screwdriver comes out you know you will have more work than you wanted. But oh well, keep an open mind and plough on!
Sounds like you have a proper rotter too like me!
Do you have a project thread for the work you are doing?

Cheers,
Josh

 

[M4ck1]

Thanks!
Yeah once the screwdriver comes out you know you will have more work than you wanted. But oh well, keep an open mind and plough on!
Sounds like you have a proper rotter too like me!
Do you have a project thread for the work you are doing?

Cheers,
Josh

Nah!!!

Mine would be proper boring to be honest.:disrelieved:
With having a couple of kids moving house, changing jobs, getting slightly side tracked with a civic type r and a racing I shared with father in law and vx220 turbo the clio has got a tax disc from 2007. Now all the other toys have gone and the kids are old enough to look after themselves a bit more I've sorted my new garage out bought a new welder I'm know starting to enjoy the clio again. 😌

 

[NaplesMark16v]

Thanks for the comments!
Yeah it seems to be a massive trend of scrapping Valvers in the hope to get one without rust. One is enough for me though! Ha

Thanks! I'm trying to make the car last at least another 20odd years so I better do it properly. Plus m grandad used to be in the bodywork trade so he has given me quite a few pointers etc as I don't work in bodywork. All a learning curve.

Yeah the R-Tech welder is mega. It does exactly what I want from it. The guys at R-Tech are also very nice to deal with. Certainly worth spending money with them.

Cheers, Josh

Haha true, yeah I emailed them about the welder and they answered all my questions etc. Can't wait to get all the rot out of mine, although to my surprise it's actually pretty solid bar the usual arches and sills and the rest is down to cap previous repairs. Which hubs you putting on mate? I was gonna 172 track mine but heard there's better options

 

[hardy]

Nah!!!

Mine would be proper boring to be honest.:disrelieved:
With having a couple of kids moving house, changing jobs, getting slightly side tracked with a civic type r and a racing I shared with father in law and vx220 turbo the clio has got a tax disc from 2007. Now all the other toys have gone and the kids are old enough to look after themselves a bit more I've sorted my new garage out bought a new welder I'm know starting to enjoy the clio again. 😌

I'm sure that it will be an interesting read even to look at pictures! Because you aren't chopping everything out doesn't mean its not an interesting thread! It would be nice to see one being tidied up/minimal work done to it :up:

Josh

 

[hardy]

Haha true, yeah I emailed them about the welder and they answered all my questions etc. Can't wait to get all the rot out of mine, although to my surprise it's actually pretty solid bar the usual arches and sills and the rest is down to cap previous repairs. Which hubs you putting on mate? I was gonna 172 track mine but heard there's better options

Yeah I found them really helpful. Even on phone support to a relative newbie to a welder, they were more than happy to answer any stupid question...
Yeah... I thought mine wasn't going to be as bad as it is. But as soon as I started peeling away layers, more and more rot showed its face. Not ideal.
I have got some Laguna 2.2D hubs now (same as the Mk2 Clio Cup race car ones). I will be using all of the items that go together with the hubs to make the set up work, eg. Uniball lower ball joint, Roll centre pin and custom AVO coilovers.
What are the better options that you have heard of?

Josh

 

[NaplesMark16v]

Yeah I found them really helpful. Even on phone support to a relative newbie to a welder, they were more than happy to answer any stupid question...
Yeah... I thought mine wasn't going to be as bad as it is. But as soon as I started peeling away layers, more and more rot showed its face. Not ideal.
I have got some Laguna 2.2D hubs now (same as the Mk2 Clio Cup race car ones). I will be using all of the items that go together with the hubs to make the set up work, eg. Uniball lower ball joint, Roll centre pin and custom AVO coilovers.
What are the better options that you have heard of?

Josh

I was the same with my Naples valver lol, thought new sills and a few other patches would do it, turned out it had a full quarter at some point which wasn't done very well, the floor near enough fell out once the sill was off!
And I'm not sure on the better options mate, just read somewhere on a thread about wide tracking that safrane and laguna route is good but there are far better options. Some say the r19 wide track is good too.

 

[hardy]

I was the same with my Naples valver lol, thought new sills and a few other patches would do it, turned out it had a full quarter at some point which wasn't done very well, the floor near enough fell out once the sill was off!
And I'm not sure on the better options mate, just read somewhere on a thread about wide tracking that safrane and laguna route is good but there are far better options. Some say the r19 wide track is good too.

Its all good fun with these cars!
I am intrigued to what suspension set up you have read about. There is a Full race suspension set up available from Pure motorsport which is a very serious bit of kit for very serious money.
The R19 widetrack is the same width as the the Williams setup but it runs more caster by pushing the lower ball joint further forward.
The set up I will be running will have the 182 cup (larger castor than 172) wishbones, 172 Cup ARB, 172 Cup race car hubs (Laguna 2.2D), Roll centre pins, uniball lower ball joint and Avo coilovers. All of this will be replacing my old Williams set up with Avo coilovers.

Josh

 

[NaplesMark16v]

You got that right lol. My xerus had a cart load of filler on it when it had its sill repaired, or should I say bodged lol. I see if I can find the thread.

 

[COSTA_MK1]

like this a lot good commitment with the rust. I'm in a similar situation with my mk1. keep at it!!

 

[hardy]

like this a lot good commitment with the rust. I'm in a similar situation with my mk1. keep at it!!

Cheers!
I have been looking at the work you have been doing on yours too.
Funnily enough, I was very very very close to buying your shell but because I am equally a sad b*****d I couldn't part with mine.

Currently this project is on hold due to buying a Williams 3 do build as a daily car.
I will post up the progress of that up very soon as this is taking shape quickly.

Cheers,
Josh

 

[northy]

you can still buy new jacking points for the front of the Mk1's Hardy

 

[COSTA_MK1]

Have you got a link Northy

 

[hardy]

Northy, if you have a link of a part number, that would be great!
Cheers.