NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Fred's on about the Ashford Motorsport engine that EVOgone has put a YouTube link to phil.
Last edited:
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Pure Motorsport Race Engine
- Thread starter Martin.
- Start date
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- Tags
- engine motorsport
182cup & 172 racecar
It's the Ashford one Phil (just thought I'd join in)
172 cup, Impreza P1
Phil.... phil....
different engine......
different engine......
182cup & 172 racecar
Different planet
Has anyone done this? Must be someone with an f7r engine in a mk2?
Guess a f7r super sprint fits?
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...oject-Thread/page7&highlight=Clio+rally+build
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...oject-Thread/page7&highlight=Clio+rally+build
Ahhhh the ashford one - sorry must have missed a post. That engine has bullshit written all over it TBH
Evo 5 RS
What's the rev limit? (Can't watch video soz)
Chip thanks for the offer, what i need is the difference in angle (guessing height and offset will be near as damn it) of the head F4R vs F7R. F4 looks square to the centerline of the engine where the F7 looks angled. With this i will just weld on the flange at this new angle. If you get my drift.
Hmm, im unsure how Im going to accurately measure that angle with the engines in the cars.
When I mentioned about measuring the supersprint it was when you were talking about using that manifold on a mk2, so I was thinking more in terms of how to get the supersprint to fit a mk2, by measuring where it comes down past the subframe relative to the block etc.
For the measurement that you want now though, you really just need the two heads on a bench, ive got spare f4r heads lieing around but the only f7r head I have got is on the car.
When I mentioned about measuring the supersprint it was when you were talking about using that manifold on a mk2, so I was thinking more in terms of how to get the supersprint to fit a mk2, by measuring where it comes down past the subframe relative to the block etc.
For the measurement that you want now though, you really just need the two heads on a bench, ive got spare f4r heads lieing around but the only f7r head I have got is on the car.
I'm not that confident about the comparability of the dyno figures for Ian's engine, John read and I only ever record mean observed torque figures on that dyno and convert to power ourselves (power=(torque/5252)*rpm), the software on that dyno does not accurately or consistently convert to power (torque is what's calibrated, power is calculated) and capturing it with a convenient mouse click can produce more flattering results that a cynical eye on the stable/settled torque reading we look for. But taking the torque figures on faith anyway, here's a comparison and I've added the 1997cc XU engine I built for our hillclimb 205, not the fullest mid range I've had from a 2 litre, but a good benchmark of what we'd like to achieve with the F4R.
Beware the folly of judging engines in this way though, in the car you wouldn't dare compare that 205 engine with Ian's Clio engine, it's in an entirely different league of urgency, responsiveness and flexibility. The differences in a well rounded full race engine go way beyond what can be observed in a graph.
A couple of vids of the 205 to give you a rough idea, 1st is Colin taking 2 seconds out of Keith Murray's 450bhp 4WD Quattro at Mallory in the wet this year, second demonstrates using 2nd gear from 2000rpm out of a hairpin on it's way to a new Wiscombe class record:
[video=youtube_share;oLbNUHDbcTs]http://youtu.be/oLbNUHDbcTs[/video]
[video=youtube_share;X2oUpurM8xE]http://youtu.be/X2oUpurM8xE[/video]
Beware the folly of judging engines in this way though, in the car you wouldn't dare compare that 205 engine with Ian's Clio engine, it's in an entirely different league of urgency, responsiveness and flexibility. The differences in a well rounded full race engine go way beyond what can be observed in a graph.
A couple of vids of the 205 to give you a rough idea, 1st is Colin taking 2 seconds out of Keith Murray's 450bhp 4WD Quattro at Mallory in the wet this year, second demonstrates using 2nd gear from 2000rpm out of a hairpin on it's way to a new Wiscombe class record:
[video=youtube_share;oLbNUHDbcTs]http://youtu.be/oLbNUHDbcTs[/video]
[video=youtube_share;X2oUpurM8xE]http://youtu.be/X2oUpurM8xE[/video]
I can't watch those 205 videos without tissues
NorthloopCup
ClioSport Moderator
Always knew you were a wanker phil! Lol!
Hahaha thanks sweety
DCI100 / 211hp MK1
Im on here aswell craig lol.
It made 171.2 bhp at SRR on the standard ecu and 177 bhp on the chipped ecu (off the shelf chip)
If you have a look through my project thread there may be some pictures that can help you.
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/show...K2-amp-MK3-Content-(01-Sep-12-DEADLINE)/page5
More pics a few pages on but it starts there
I was going to try and make a 182 manifold fit but broke the car before I got that far. I think it would be a PITA to try and fit it into a mk1 one shell. Depends how much time you have and if you are any good at welding.
Really interesting Ian G's car and the PMS engine follow nearly the same line until 6kish. Guess the use of wilder cams and solid lifters would be the reason more so than the manifold as that was for low down so the 182 manifold seems to do a good job concidering is doesnt have an 8 injector set up. Guessing longer rods is for reliability at rev like the Maxi cars us to run.
Seperate question but whats the best coil pack to run on a comp engine as people say the clio ones crap and go for a Zetec or one that has ignitors built in like the EFI parts one.?
Seperate question but whats the best coil pack to run on a comp engine as people say the clio ones crap and go for a Zetec or one that has ignitors built in like the EFI parts one.?
i have ones of these from the pink car engine, was wondering why not to use it as I was told it delivers a stronger spark and more reliable.
http://www.efi-parts.co.uk/index.php?productID=121
More about increasing torque/power at high rpm.
When you are at really high rpm the piston doesnt hang around up near TDC for long enough to get a decent amount of the burn done, and you need to encourage it to do so in order to build cylinder pressure properly, otherwise you end up dialing more and more timing and getting nowhere.
So a longer rod means a small vertical movement in the piston just before and just after TDC (where the bottom end of the rod is basically going horizontally more or less)
Yes its reducing the rod angle that increases the piston time spent near TDC as a result.
Ive not had a problem but Ive not tried running one on normal plugs with big power.
Ive used the standard coilpack with 2 bar of boost without an issue though and that normally finds ignition strength weaknesses, so I dont think they are too bad.
From seeing both engines within a few days, I don't think Ian's and this one do follow the same lie below 6k, hence my early reservations about Ian's dyno results. Part of the reason I referenced that 205 engine, is that it feels massively stronger and cleaner from low rpm than Ian's. As I said, this is the foolishness of judging engines by taking graphs literally.
As for the coilpack, we've extensively tested various configurations and the standard Valeo/Bosch wasted spark type is perfectly effective. Amplified coil on plug can improve smoothness marginally in some cases, but it's rare and they're hard to source quickly if one fails, which they often do. Any suggestion the standard Ford Coilpack is better than the Vaelo/Bosch type, holds no water with me, they function in the same way and give exactly the same performance in my experience; companies selling them as an upgrade is rather misleading IMO!
As for the coilpack, we've extensively tested various configurations and the standard Valeo/Bosch wasted spark type is perfectly effective. Amplified coil on plug can improve smoothness marginally in some cases, but it's rare and they're hard to source quickly if one fails, which they often do. Any suggestion the standard Ford Coilpack is better than the Vaelo/Bosch type, holds no water with me, they function in the same way and give exactly the same performance in my experience; companies selling them as an upgrade is rather misleading IMO!
