Real world cost of boost

[Cup_Phil]

There's a lot of things going through my head at the moment with the Clio... I won't bore you all to death with it.. but one of them is to sell the bodies (and omex if needed), buy a spare low mileage engine and build up a turbo'd lump.

Roughly (and I know this is an how long is a piece of string type question), how much would it cost to build a turbo'd lump?

Not bothered about huge figures - I'd be happy with 240-260bhp. Don't really want to get into the cost of forged pistons etc... unless it's necessary

I've done a few searches but there aren't a huge amount of turbo'd Clio's about

 

[Stefan.]

I looked at engine dynamics, they offer a nice turbo kit which starts at 230bhp

 

[Chip-mk1]

You may as well keep the omex, its a bit crude in terms of things like the boost control, but its still upto the job.

All you really need for 240bhp or so engine wise is to use a megane head gasket (thicker)

What cams do you have? if they are non standard ones sell them too.

You need to budget approx 2k for the bits roughly to turbo a clio on the cheap, ie without a decent clutch or gearbox rebuild or uprated diff and with no forged internals, although having the management gives you a head start on that.

The engine dynamics kit, but minus the piggy back management and then keep your omex, would be a good way to go.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah I'd rather keep the Omex over an RS Tuner map on standard ECU LOL

I would have to buy standard inlet manifolds again as I sold mine, and the ECU loom would probably need doing

How does a supercharger conversion compare? I know in the 106 scene you used to be able to buy a bracket and bolt a rotrex on quite easily but thinking about a Clio the inlet manifold is kinda in the way

If I ditched the PAS and converted to an EPAS column - could a rotrex be fitted lower down where the PAS pump usually goes?

 

[Cup_Phil]

Oh looking at K-Tecs rotrex kit it can fit straight onto a Cup where the Air Con pump is meant to be

£4k though... ouch - even selling the Omex and bodies and everything with them I'd have a £2.5k bill
But 250bhp is tempting!

 

[domsclio182]

Rotrex kit is nice and easy to fit, ktec will map the car as part of the kit price if you fit it yourself and you will also get your 5% Cs discount off the kit price. You will need to get a 182 alternator and the brackets.

These kits can easily sell for 3 k on the second hand market as they never really come up for sale.

 

[Chris205]

I'd say you're looking at around £4k as IMO I'd be forging the bottom end, its inevitable you will want to increase the boost at some point, so you may as well just do it once and do it right.

 

[Stu.]

Has probably cost me close to 3k for just the engine build + running with a relatively standard engine. Still want to get it mapped so its running perfect so chuck another £500 on there for good measure.

 

[Jay Payne]

Hang on didnt you say you struggle to buy decent track tyres? Or have i missed something

 

[Cup_Phil]

Change of situation.. Last 2 years have been supporting a girlfriend through Uni. She's getting a job again in June and I'll be back to having a bit of disposable dosh

Obviously it's getting 888's or 595 RS-R's or something first, and I want to change the seats to something that hold me a bit better but after that.

Can't really make my mind up whether to keep the Clio or not - got boost cravings after being in my mates Turbo'd 106 this weekend
The Clio just isn't really quick enough on ITB's to make me giggle any more

 

[msa197]

Why wouldn't a megane 225 lump fit into a 1*2?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Why wouldn't a megane 225 lump fit into a 1*2?

It would if you redrill the block to fit a 172 gearbox and put it on standalone managemet but what does that gain you compared to turboing the 172 engine?

 

[Cup_Phil]

I'd quite like a 225 engine - it's probably cheaper to fit one than it is to turbo the 172 engine

 

[Aarin]

If paul on c16v can fit a 225 engine and box into a mk1 I can't see why it wouldn't be possible in a mk2

 

[Cup_Phil]

I see andyrg fitted a megane 225 head and turbo etc.. onto a 172 bottom end
That way you keep the 172 box

Would be nice to have the 6 speed box from the 225 too though

 

[Chip-mk1]

If paul on c16v can fit a 225 engine and box into a mk1 I can't see why it wouldn't be possible in a mk2

Definitely possible but as I said what will you really gain by doing so instead of turbo the 172 lump which is already there.
6 speed box will need potentially expensive custom shafts and it would be a fair bit of cutting. And still isn't a great box.
172 lump with a vag box would make more sense IMHO.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I see andyrg fitted a megane 225 head and turbo etc.. onto a 172 bottom end
That way you keep the 172 box

Would be nice to have the 6 speed box from the 225 too though

If you are you going to strip the 172 engine to fit new pistons and rods then just fit forged ones not secondhand ones barely any better than the standard 172 ones.

 

[msa197]

It would if you redrill the block to fit a 172 gearbox and put it on standalone managemet but what does that gain you compared to turboing the 172 engine?

Only if its cheaper, in the long run to upgrading etc.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Only if its cheaper, in the long run to upgrading etc.

Unless you get more or less given a 225 lump its unlikely to reduce the cost using one.

 

[turner24]

I wish there was a chip near me such an intelligent helpfull chap

 

[batesey]

DO IT!! two boosted cups in lincoln would be ace!

 

[Chip-mk1]

I wish there was a chip near me such an intelligent helpfull chap

Flol, thanks for the kind words but sadly you forgot "insanely busy and hence not much use to anyone beyond a bit of advice online at the moment"

 

[Cup_Phil]

DO IT!! two boosted cups in lincoln would be ace!

LOL I'm sat on about £13k of clio at the moment - I'm just not sure throwing another £4k at building a boosted engine is the most sensible thing
It would be cheaper to sell up I think and build a boosted 106 like my mate has just done

To be fair I should just get the damn thing back on track and see how it goes now it has KW V2's and Wilwoods on it!

 

[batesey]

LOL I'm sat on about £13k of clio at the moment - I'm just not sure throwing another £4k at building a boosted engine is the most sensible thing
It would be cheaper to sell up I think and build a boosted 106 like my mate has just done

To be fair I should just get the damn thing back on track and see how it goes now it has KW V2's and Wilwoods on it!

i priced up the parts for a turbo kit, £1300 without ecu, you have the ecu so your at an advantage, that was with some new bits aswell!! bolt it on your engine, run low boost till it blows up then rebuild it with mapping you could boost yours for less than £1500 if you searched around for good 2nd hand parts

2nd hand t28 = £150
new oil feed and return = £100
Manifold = £150
downpipe = £100 (my mate could make you one)
intercooler (cheapo ebay jobby) = £50
spark plugs from megane = £30
Boost pipes including hoses = £150
nimbus heat sheild = you have
megane injectors = £70

obviously things like oil and coolant etc will be needed but thats the majority ... £800

 

[Cup_Phil]

I don't really want to do a turbo build with cheap ebay bits though, would rather have ally radiator, intercooler etc.. tidy looking boost pipes

Plus I'd need to buy inlet manifolds again and I'm currently running a 182 manifold so my exhaust wouldn't mate up etc...

 

[Cup_Phil]

Where do people buy these setups from?

I really like the way michael woodford motorsport did it - 197 head to lower compression with a 197 inlet manifold... very nice solution but 197 engines are £1500, then I'd need to get my bottom end rebuilt or buy a low mileage 182/172 bottom end.

It is tempting - garage is big enough to get an engine crane in and take engine out without having to take the clio out. Could just flog the ITB kit and build it up this summer

 

[batesey]

I don't really want to do a turbo build with cheap ebay bits though, would rather have ally radiator, intercooler etc.. tidy looking boost pipes

Plus I'd need to buy inlet manifolds again and I'm currently running a 182 manifold so my exhaust wouldn't mate up etc...

my mate could make you a custom downpipe to whatever you need thats what he does and could come to yours, i know what you mean though, i could have done it with cheap parts but ended up with ally rad and forge fmic, boost pipes im hoping look tidy but you do see some ktec pipes going cheap on here every now and again

 

[Chip-mk1]

Mike on his first "demo" car used an ED exhaust manfiold, a focus RS turbo, and a custom made turbo downpipe, the ED kits are decent though if you want to just buy it all in one go.

197 head and inlet is about 300 quid ish, it only lowers the CR a tiny bit though, the rest came from the use of a megane head gasket as well which is thicker.
CR at the finish was just over 10 IIRC and it drove very well like that, I see no point in going lower CR for a low boost conversion, it was still taking upwards of 20 degrees of ignition advance in fact which shows how much these engines like big CR when on boost.

 

[batesey]

http://store.trwperformance.com/ind...ge=uk&osCsid=e4ca7ef4751f7799610bbabe4a769eb9

i did actually email them and they offered to do a full bolt on kit without boost pipes for £1300 i think it was all new parts too

 

[JaredHasNoBrain]

2nd hand t28 = £150
new oil feed and return = £100
Manifold = £150
downpipe = £100 (my mate could make you one)
intercooler (cheapo ebay jobby) = £50
spark plugs from megane = £30
Boost pipes including hoses = £150
nimbus heat sheild = you have
megane injectors = £70

obviously things like oil and coolant etc will be needed but thats the majority ... £800

i wish it was as easy as you just made it out to be! I would love a boosted 172 but i dont have £800 and then I would have to go to a garage, +££££

 

[Chip-mk1]

i wish it was as easy as you just made it out to be! I would love a boosted 172 but i dont have £800 and then I would have to go to a garage, +££££

You are missing the very important fact he said that was based on already having an ecu.

Starting adding buying one of them, plus some mapping, plus some labour and that 800 figure will very quickly triple TBH

 

[batesey]

As above the ecu is the most expensive part of the conversion, really is a shame the standard ecu isnt up to the job otherwise i think a lot more people would do it, paul at rstuning can map the standard ecu but in all fairness it cant cope with the added boost pressure so will lead to problems, might aswell do it right first time round

 

[JaredHasNoBrain]

You are missing the very important fact he said that was based on already having an ecu.

Starting adding buying one of them, plus some mapping, plus some labour and that 800 figure will very quickly triple TBH

True, thats the only downside of having a Clio, you have to spend loads to get some gains, yes there fun cars and always put a smile to my face but for now, I want my clio nice and maybe one or two engine mods, then saving for a S14/200sx lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

The management used on my clio tubo used to retail at 600 including a part made loom, but its currently unavailable.

There is a completely new product being developed though by a new company that is co-owned by one of the same people that own that company though, and that looks to be cheaper and also far better from what I have seen to date.

When it comes out I am quite tempted to swap over and once I have done so would be happy enough to publish a base map etc and all the wiring details, that might make things move a long a bit more cheaply for people.

But I dont know on the timescales, my only involvement has been that as someone with a very wide range of experience of different ECU's that I have mapped over the years they have been using me as a sounding board for functionality and interface etc as kind of a "pet mapper", but I am not privvy to the timescales yet.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I am seriously SERIOUSLY leaning towards selling my ITB kit and going boost. The manifold/downpipe/turbo would cost less than I could get for my bodies I think... then it's just boost pipes and intercooler and remap

I could buy a 182 lump, do the dephaser/cambelt myself and fit a megane headgasket and megane injectors - then fit all the turbo kit and drop it in
Could get it running with a focus rs intercooler etc...

 

[Chip-mk1]

Focus ST intercooler on mine, they are worth a couple of dozen quid.

I dont think you will regret it Phil, shame we arent nearer or I would take you for a spin in mine.

 

[Cup_Phil]

I think what I'm gonna do is insure the Clio today, MOT it in a couple of weeks and stick some tax on it
So I can play about this summer

But instead of throwing £500 at a cambelt/dephaser etc.. on my 120k engine I'm gonna buy a 182 lump
That'll have the inlets and everything back on it - then start picking up turbo/manifold/downpipe/intercooler etc.. bit by bit up till winter

Take Clio off the road again in October, flog the ITB's and then swap the engine over

 

[Chip-mk1]

good plan mate!

 

[Sir_Dave]

Can't really make my mind up whether to keep the Clio or not - got boost cravings after being in my mates Turbo'd 106 this weekend

Chips Turbo made me want to try boost. Priced it up, made more sense to just buy a MCS lol.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Chips Turbo made me want to try boost. Priced it up, made more sense to just buy a MCS lol.

MCS?