Renault 5 GTT vs 172

[Cord-172]

Any ideas as to who would come off better? On paper there isnt much between them (then again I am refering to Max Power who are proper poo!!)

 

[RSTDL]

Here we go again............. Both nice cars - Id like both in my corgi collection - read this months PGTi for the answer - any modded car will beat any other modded car - period - depends how much money u have, but a s standard, the 172 will ultimately come out tops against a standard R5 GTT.

 

[RobFenn]

Two of my mates had standard GT Turbos, one did 0-60 in 7.8, the other in 9!

 

[Craggy]

i raced one on the 1/4 mile, he reckoned it was standard, he did 15.6, which ios about what the 172s get at york on average, maybe a tad lower, altough a few are a bit quicker

 

[nickg123]

Exactly - a modded 5 rarely has competition from another car, but then again a modded 172 would be the same!!

 

[RSTDL]

Exactly - its hard to compare cars that are modded - thats why i tend to compare cars according to their standard performance figures - obviously a standard scooby will take to modding and show bigger gains than a smaller powered or capacity engined car will - have to look at that also? Although the R5 seems to disprove that theory!

 

[nickg123]

Basically a Turbo gives instant power increases at the adjustment of the boost - at least with a turbo youve got power on tap, even if it might blow up - with an NA engine theres only so much you can do really - and you never see massive gains anyway unless youve got good power to start with!

 

[Cord-172]

Yeah I was comparing them as standard, saw some really nice ones at Xtreme on the 15th. One tore past me that looked standard (save for a big Ppphhhwwwwwsssss as he changed gear!!), but it was in that 50mph bit so I didnt have a go!!

 

[Simon172]

Yeah they are pretty fast. Very light-weight cars which makes them nippy. I think theyre around 800 kg arent they? so 120 bhp means a lot more than in say a vts for example.

 

[RSTDL]

Yeah, but simply shoving a 5 GTT engine into a clio will not make it as quick as a 5GTT - Note the owner of the red clio with GTT conversion in PGTi - rollers gave it 109BHP or something but they would have been better A/ Keeping the 16V engine in it or B/ putting a 16V engine in it - theres a reason renault never made a turbo 16V or Williams - RELIABILity anyone? Also note the Subaru Forester in Top Gear last night - basically an Impreza turbo engine and chassis etc shoved into someething the weight of a land rover - one cancels the other out! Or the Bentley 3 weeks ago that Vici Butler Henderson took down the strip - 15sec quarter mile and 0-60 in about 6 secs! Thats a seriously heavy car, but theyve overcome that with an even more seriously masssivvveee engine!! Twin turbos etc

 

[Cord-172]

In MP thios month they put a Cosmowrth Engine in a Ford Transit!! Wonder how that goes?

 

[Cord-172]

Sorry, cant spell - Typing with my feet today

 

[ReNWiLL]

Saw a dimma Clio valver with a Cossie 4x4 engine and running gear for sale in a magazine a few months back. For sale for 10K.

Now that I would have liked to have tested !.

 

[BRUN]

Quote: Originally posted by CUPSIZE? on 23 December 2002

Yeah, but simply shoving a 5 GTT engine into a clio will not make it as quick as a 5GTT - Note the owner of the red clio with GTT conversion in PGTi - rollers gave it 109BHP or something but they would have been better A/ Keeping the 16V engine in it or B/ putting a 16V engine in it - theres a reason renault never made a turbo 16V or Williams - RELIABILity anyone?

- 109 was at the wheels, the engine was standard but with 10psi boost an a dump valve

- it wasnt a 16v to start with, it was an RT

 

[PaulRobo]

Quote: Originally posted by BRUN on 27 February 2003


- 109 was at the wheels, the engine was standard but with 10psi boost an a dump valve

- it wasnt a 16v to start with, it was an RT

Same as mine!

 

[marcus cliogtt]

Also huge factor - The Driver........

 

[PaulRobo]

oh, i have summat dsone to me carb too htoug

 

[RobFenn]

A standard 172 would beat a standard R5 round corners and in a straightline.

 

[Rich-D]

Standard vs standard, the 172 wins every time...

But, there arent many standard GT Turbos about now, but if you did find one then youd beat it once on the move, as they are quick off the mark as standard, but run out of steam at the top end, so as the speed rises the 172 will pull away.



However, it only takes some minor work for them to be 172 quick, then a bit more to be 172 beaters, then even more and they can be mental. Depends on the car though and whats been done.



Gonna get mine back on the road now the weather is getting nicer, as Ive had it off the road for the winter. Its had some work whilst off the road though, so I nedd to get it set up on the rollers and see how much power & torque its running.

Then time to play!

 

[RobFenn]

How much are you expecting Rich?

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by Simon172 on 23 December 2002

Yeah they are pretty fast. Very light-weight cars which makes them nippy. I think theyre around 800 kg arent they? so 120 bhp means a lot more than in say a vts for example.

Yup, they only weigh 830kg for the phase 2 cars, so even as standard with only 120bhp, it means they have 145bhp/tonne as standard!!!

So a mildly modded one running say 150bhp (easy) would have 181bhp/tonne, so you can see why theyre so bl00dy quick!

Then if you start to remove excess weight, it can get a bit silly...

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 27 February 2003

How much are you expecting Rich?

Well, the new turbo can run up to 20psi, so if I run it on max boost it "could" be nearly 200bhp, but I aint gonna run it anywhere near that...

Probably stick to about 1 bar of boost (for now), so about 160bhp or so I reckon, then see how it goes and I can adjust the boost if I want.

 

[Barryd]

I think everyone has pretty much hit the nail on the head. Standard it will be close upto around 60 I think. Rolling acceleration and top end the 172 shouldnt have any problems in pulling away.

Modified. Well, has anyone really modified a 172 yet, I mean properly, not just a back box and filter (not that a filter will do anything!).?

As everyone here knows, the 5 turbos lump can churn out some pretty impressive power reliably, when tuned correctly. I think the 172 has alot of potential too.

Have a look at the link, we have almost finished re-building this engine, its a full 5 turbo engine strip and rebuild, with lots of go faster goodies, and thats just the internals......looks dam nice if I say so myself..!! Got quite a few of these in at the moment, this being the latest.

http://www.rtoc.org/members/member.asp?MemberID=2370http://www.rtoc.org/members/member.asp?MemberID=2370

 

[RobFenn]

I have big plans for a Cup next year, all weight saving ones, im hoping to get it down to around 980kg, 20kg more than a Cup racer.

 

[RobFenn]

I think 172s/cups will start progressing once theyre all out of warranty

 

[vibrio]

Quote: Originally posted by BRUN on 27 February 2003

Quote: Originally posted by CUPSIZE? on 23 December 2002

Yeah, but simply shoving a 5 GTT engine into a clio will not make it as quick as a 5GTT - Note the owner of the red clio with GTT conversion in PGTi - rollers gave it 109BHP or something but they would have been better A/ Keeping the 16V engine in it or B/ putting a 16V engine in it - theres a reason renault never made a turbo 16V or Williams - RELIABILity anyone?

- 109 was at the wheels, the engine was standard but with 10psi boost an a dump valve

- it wasnt a 16v to start with, it was an RT

10psi is standard boost in a R5GTT

 

[Barryd]

Not strictly true, standard boost can vary from 7-10psi, from car to car. Overboost cut out is set at 1 bar (around 15psi) standard.

 

[BRUN]

thats one sweet lookin engine mate

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 27 February 2003

I think 172s/cups will start progressing once theyre all out of warranty

Agreed.

I didnt really mess with my 106 GTi when it was under warranty.

Only did stuff that I could do without invalidating it like wheels, brakes, induction kit, etc... Peugeot are actually pretty good about stuff like that and its only if you do stuff like a chip, de-cat, cams, etc.. where you will not be covered by the warranty.

 

[adz33]

Paulrobos clio gtt badged as an RT is fast and would easily beat a standard 172, I know cos ive been in it he lives in the same street as me and its a fair bit quicker than my 106 gti. There wouldnt be much weight difference between a R5 gtt and a Clio RT; R5 - 820Kg, Clio RT - 880Kg.

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by adz33 on 27 February 2003


There wouldnt be much weight difference between a R5 gtt and a Clio RT

But the GTT bits you add will add more weight to that of a standard RT... so in reality it will weigh more than 880kg!

 

[Clart]

Doesnt Trevs KTEC GT do 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds? I think it will be a long time before ANY modded 172 does that - altough it will probly happen at some point

 

[Rasclart]

Although I am sure the 172 will shave some time off.

To get it around the 4.5-5 sec mark would maybe need to go away from N/A unless throttle bodies are the way to go.

Supercharging and Turbo the 172 would shave loads of time off!!!

 

[Clart]

How about a 172 with a big turbo AND NoS?

 

[Liquid_Ice2]

Now that would be very fast, lots of money!!!

I would just get a 106 gti because their loads faster

 

[adz33]

The r5 turbo engine is not that much heavier than a normal 1.4 rt engine. A clio 16v is 980kg due to a 1.8 engine and the extras that come with it. It shud be around 900kg for a clio RT GTT. Which is really light when you have got 140bhp+, 0-60 is defo under 7 secs.

 

[Rich-D]

There is also additional weight from the auxillary items required for the turbo system, not just the weight of the engine itself.

A turbo on its own is a bl00dy heavy lump, plus theres a more complex & heavy cast manifold (as well as the downpipes), oil cooler built into the rad, intercooler, extra plumbing for oil, water, boost, etc... it all adds weight.

Shouldnt be much over 900kg though, I agree there, so still pretty light considering and obviously much less than a valver, Cup, 172, etc...

I just meant that a Clio GTT is still quite a bit heavier than an R5 GTT, which at the end of the day weighs f*ck all, hence why theyre so quick!

 

[vibrio]

Quote: Originally posted by Barryd on 27 February 2003

Not strictly true, standard boost can vary from 7-10psi, from car to car. Overboost cut out is set at 1 bar (around 15psi) standard.

thats a huge difference. 7-10psi

 

[RobFenn]

To make a 172 that quick i wouldnt use a 172, id use a cup, it wouldnt be too hard to get that under 1000kg. I think wed need BenR or someone in the know to let us know the capability of the engine with N/A tune but if you can get 215bhp from just throttle bodies you might be able to get up to 250bhp. A turbo conversion could give up to say 100bhp (where would the intercooler go?). The thing is 172s are still over 10grand, you can pick up R5s for a couple of grand.

 

[Graham Gooch]

im adequately qualified to answer this question,



now my car (AT THE MOMENT) has 149 bhp, and can and has held it own against CTRs ,172s etc... etc... and i smoked a st170 off the lights for breakfast. but then again its as light as a tin of beans

T3 roller bearing turbo being fitted in a few weeks, along with fuel pump, and carb adjustment, should be 160-170bhp with the right boost, you know thats gonna be quick