Rolling road results with pics, advise please..

[fuel_slut]

Hi,
Been tinkering with my new toy, the turbo valver and i'm pretty satisfied with the way she is running.

Referring to the below RR results, what results could I expect by winding the boost up to 10 PSI? (bearing in mind she's running 9:1:1 compression, with dished standard pistons).

Will I still get the lovely torque curve and power delivery.

Its so strange driving a turbo its not as 'peacky' as the 172 and you know what? I prefer peacky N/A cars. Still alot of fun to drive thou!

 

[fuel_slut]

FYI - the second power figure of 167hp is the power at the wheels.

 

[TheJesus]

no idea what effect winding da boost yo! has, but on my mates old GT4 Celica, turning it up half a bar went to 338bhp from just over 300bhp

 

[fuel_slut]

Boost FTW, BBbbrrraappp bbbrraappp.

I'd hope 10psi would give me 215-220bhp but im worried about the internals and the clutch. Engines already kicking out 60bhp more than it was designed for lol.

 

[ditz]

long as you map it to suit i cant see there being a problem.
be surprised if the internals wouldnt handle it the old cvh turbo fords with standard boost of 7 psi will quite happily run a bar (14psi) all day long on bog standard internals as long as its fueling right

might be worth having a word with whoever dynoed it

 

[ditz]

just noticed its torque of the devil they are top fellas they will give you advice on it.

 

[stan*]

"suck it and see"

 

[sideways danny]

what turbo is it?

 

[fuel_slut]

This is the spec:

• GT28R60 turbo @ 8 psi
• Renault 21 Turbo MAP sensor
• Renault 21 Turbo injectors professionally cleaned and refurbished
• IVECO Dailey intercooler
• manual boost controller
• Group N organic clutch
• ‘soft clutch’ pedal conversion
• fully rebuilt engine with:
• honed bores
• 9.1:1 dished pistons
• New piston rings
• Spesso Head gasket
• new bearings and seals
• refurbished oil pump and piston-spray jets
• new valve stem seals
• lapped valves
• low-temp thermostat
• stainless-steel exhaust manifold
• stainless-steel downpipe
• Rtuner engine management

 

[bass_direct]

10psi, will see you around 210-215bhp

but you'll need a suitable map and fuelling to run it

 

[sideways danny]

i made 294bhp at 12psi and 323bhp at 16psi with that turbo on my nissan (1.8l, 8.1:1 CR) It's a very capable turbo. I'd think 10 psi would be a good place to start, and probably 12psi is going to be your peak before you need to upgrade a few bits. I'd look at a better intercooler. You need to watch your fueling and check for detonation as you up the boost

 

[Sean.]

just remember that more boost is not always better

"whacking the boost up" is very cosworth style!!!

will your intercooler be up to the job?

A good example of this can be had by my own previous experience...

I had a supercharged vts, two in fact. One ran 0.8 bar of boost, making 230bhp @ fly

my next i upped the boost to 1.2 bar and it made 252bhp. Once id done this my inlet temps were silly high meaning all of that boost was just wasted...would have been better running lower boost.

so make sure your intercooler is up to the job. Otherwise its a pointless excersize. good figs though. get used to driving it like that first id say.

Also id you up the boost i think you may wanna consider forged pistons!

 

[stan*]

I think you'll be fine upto 240-250bhp when suitably mapped, with say 1-1.1bar..maybe more.

the only way you are going to find out is to try it with a few dyno runs.

I think the pistons will be fine...your clutch will limit you before the pistons will imo.

Did you buy this from Oxford?

 

[stan*]

just remember that more boost is not always better

"whacking the boost up" is very cosworth style!!!

will your intercooler be up to the job?

A good example of this can be had by my own previous experience...

I had a supercharged vts, two in fact. One ran 0.8 bar of boost, making 230bhp @ fly

my next i upped the boost to 1.2 bar and it made 252bhp. Once id done this my inlet temps were silly high meaning all of that boost was just wasted...would have been better running lower boost.

so make sure your intercooler is up to the job. Otherwise its a pointless excersize. good figs though. get used to driving it like that first id say.

Also id you up the boost i think you may wanna consider forged pistons!

Thats typical of a Supercharged application, as the process has a lower adiabatic efficiency when compared to a Turbocharger.

 

[fuel_slut]

I asked a few other turbo clio owners and they say that 10 psi is about the max you can go to on standard internals and low comp pistons.

Im prob going to take it to RStuning in Leeds and do a 'live mapping' session on Pauls RR, see what we get out of her. Id be happy with 220 bhp.

Would turbo cams make much diff? or perhaps a gas flowed head?

 

[stan*]

I would say it would be fine with a 1bar so long the mapping was fine and the I/C is sufficient.

Theres lots of stock engines with circa 9:1 Cr and cast pistons.

you would be best of just trying to swing the cam timing on the std cams...
If you want to spend out on specific cams, Catcams offer turbo spec grind off the shelf.
As for porting the head, imo its worthwhile if/when the engines apart, and if the budget allows, but i wouldnt go out of your way to have it done....gains wont be as with a NA application.

 

[sideways danny]

I asked a few other turbo clio owners and they say that 10 psi is about the max you can go to on standard internals and low comp pistons.

Im prob going to take it to RStuning in Leeds and do a 'live mapping' session on Pauls RR, see what we get out of her. Id be happy with 220 bhp.

Would turbo cams make much diff? or perhaps a gas flowed head?

were there using the same turbo?

 

[fuel_slut]

No, but similar performance turbos and similar out puts.

I asked a few other turbo clio owners and they say that 10 psi is about the max you can go to on standard internals and low comp pistons.

Im prob going to take it to RStuning in Leeds and do a 'live mapping' session on Pauls RR, see what we get out of her. Id be happy with 220 bhp.

Would turbo cams make much diff? or perhaps a gas flowed head?

were there using the same turbo?

 

[sideways danny]

you can't go by PSI unless it's the same turbo. (and only to a limited extent then) Different turbos will push a different amount of air at the same pressure.

 

[stan*]

Inlet manifold pressure is inlet manifold pressure....1bar from a T25 is the same as 1bar from a GT28RS.
Pressure is resistence to flow, so, so long as a turbo is providing enough flow, the pressure created is the same.

The difference in engine performance at the ssame boost with different turbo's is down to exhaust/inlet pressure ratio difference, and the effect of back pressure on the combustion cycle, and cam spec/timing will vary depending on the turbo as a result of this also.

 

[fuel_slut]

Stan, thanks for all your advice.

Seen as I will only be doing less than 5,000 miles a year in it in hoping that she should be able to reliably cope with 220bhp. If/when something goes pop I will take the opurtunity to install forged components.

Took a look at your website, got some interesting goodies on there!
You fancy building a 280 bhp valver?

 

[BenR]

Aswell as your previously mentioned adiabatic efficiency at that specific pressure ratio, PSI might remain the same but density will be different.

 

[stan*]

very true very true.

 

[stan*]

Stan, thanks for all your advice.

no probs!

if you want more go, theres plenty of possibilitis, just depends on how much u wanna spend.

pointless going too stupid imo loose the fun factor once the thing becomes harder to drive. 250bhp/250-275lb.ft is plenty in a FWD car.

 

[172Ben]

whats the standard power its gone from?

 

[stan*]

137bhp on paper from the factory.

 

[Ali]

That must shift! Bearing in mine Martins TB'd Hybrid was running similarish power.

 

[stan*]

aye it will be fast enough like!

It makes the same-ish torque as a 220bhp ITB williams I built, and thats brutally fast! plus you'll have the orgasmic turbo-torque-surge with this!

NA is still the way thought

 

[172Ben]

137bhp on paper from the factory.

Not a bad gain then really

 

[fuel_slut]

The weird thing is that it doesn't feel much quicker than my 172.... think thats becasue of the power/torque delievery.

Love the torque surge! uummmmm lovely. :-D

 

[172Ben]

Any turbo lag?

 

[TheJesus]

That must shift! Bearing in mine Martins TB'd Hybrid was running similarish power.

it's only 200bhp the white one.

 

[fuel_slut]

Any turbo lag?

None what so ever, if you look at the RR graph you can see its quite a linear result.

Think the turbo uses ball bearings for the shaft and also its not a massive turbo.