Running in my 182!

[Breeze]

Ok.. got my new 182 last weekend and done 750miles in it now. (Its the dogs BTW - I love it!). Much as its killed me to do it Ive followed the running in thingy of <3.5K revs until 625miles. Rather than just boot it when i got to 626miles Im now gradually increasing revs by 1000 for each 100miles. So I should be at the redline by 1000miles! What have u guys done??? - those that havent been as restrained as me and booted it straight off the forecourt! lol

Also, i was gonna get an oil and filter change at 1000miles to get rid of any metal bits etc in the oil. But i was advised on another forum that this was not a good idea and I should let it all bed-in until the first service at 12K. Hmmm.


[Edited by Breeze on 02 July 2004 at 11:29pm]

 

[Rich-D]

I ran mine in as per the handbook, then started to open it up after that and by about 1000 miles I was using all the revs & full throttle, then drove down to Santa Pod and ran the 1/4 mile with about 1250 miles on the clock!

As for oil change, I did mine at 6k miles.

 

[LittleChick]

i would like one of them!!!!!!!!!!

 

[edde]

Personally Id have hammered it (when warm) as it will get the best power it has been discussed quite a bit in the past.

Its best doing an oil change as often as possible and within the first few hundred miles but there is no need. If you realy want do one ASAP as a lot o metal filings etc will have come of the engine in the first hundred miles or so.

 

[Breeze]

cheers edde!! So I should hammer it now at 750miles?

 

[sargeantinio]

still runnin mine in its painfull but cant risk damage i would change oil and filter at 1k cant do any harm the cleaner the oil the better!!

 

[Breeze]

nice 1 sarg! I think i will go for that oil change i originally planned! I don;t see how it can do any harm.. thanks.

running it in is a b itch but even at these low revs.. it seems fast.. and i havent got to the 5,200K bit yet where the variable valve thingy apparently kicks in! cant wait.

 

[maffyoo]

i did mine as per my professor of enginering at oxf university, i suppose i have less to lose in some way. my 182 arrived with 3 miles on the clock perfect. sat there for 5 mins engine running to warm the oil up then steadily did another 5 miles then onto the m1-a1 link. full throttle in all gears except top (its how all the bike mfrs and honda do it) then let the engine brake under its own momentum, and cool then did it again, fully to the limit - as recommended then pulled up, let the engine cool under its own management since then, oil change at 250 miles to clear out the invitable dirt in the engine and its been great, huge surge at 5000-ish rpm already, will be dynoed next month.next 400 miles will be more careful as recommended but ive seen the evidence of sports run-ins and its defnitely the way to go. i think the legend is "drive it you as you will always drive it on the run in" i did and the kick at 5000 rpm i much more significant than CTR vtec.. i love it

[Edited by maffyoo on 03 July 2004 at 1:39am]

 

[wackojacko]

Gay,

Omce warm I thrashed mine to the max from day one.

Only been back to Renault 5 times since (in a year) so I think thats a good job done.

P.s Mine is blatently a fast one !!!!

 

[maffyoo]

i think its worth pointing out that synth oil should NOT be used until at least 6000 miles, due to the mechanical and physical changes your engine goes through until it is bedded in. my consensus is carefully thrash it at first (1st 25 miles) then have an oil change (still mineral) to clean it up then build up to max power, i could go on forever and a day as to why it should be thrashed from day one but thats the way i did it and i was a metallurgy graduate. mineral oil 10/40 until 6000 miles following a hard run in and your engine will last forever. synth after 6000 miles, im confident that renault have done a good job though as VVTi i working after only 200 miles when warm. its a skill but im with the thrash it "carefully" camp

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by Breeze on 02 July 2004

cheers edde!! So I should hammer it now at 750miles?

I would have hammered it from new. So yep hammer it from now on (when its warm that is)

 

[bsimmer3000]

i have thrased mine from new and it seems to go like f*** bro is macanic for vw and he said that new engines dont need this run in time. he even told me about the golf engines. they get them and put them on max revs for 2 weeks non stop from new. just to make sure they can take it. he said the engine even on basic golfs can rev @ 7000rpm 24/7 for 2 weeks and have zero problems. he says this goes for all engines these days. he even said the best engines seem to be on the test cars lol.

 

[Breeze]

Took it up to 6K revs today.. its mental after 5K when the variable valve thing kicks in. Tomorrow its up to 7K then! Ill forget about the taking it gently idea now but Ill still change the oil & filter around 1000miles.

 

[bsimmer3000]

yeah that vvt thing does bloody work well. just love the way the car dont pull that great to start with but as soon as you hit the magic 5000rpm then all hell breaks loose. then as you change up to second bang its in the 5000-7000 rpm range again, then 3rd then 4th wooooooohooooooo better not be doing 7000rpm in fifth lol.

 

[Lagerlout]

The pull at 5000 rpm is nothing to do with VVT......

 

[Breeze]

what is it then m8? and where does vvt start if its not then and can you notice it?

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by Breeze on 04 July 2004

what is it then m8? and where does vvt start if its not then and can you notice it?

VVT only works when the coolent temp is >80 and the pressure is 850 milibares (so almost full throttle) and the revs are between 1400 and 6k (I think there the limits)

The shove you feel is the cams becomming more efficient nothing to do with VVT. At 4k or so they hit there region of high cylinder efficiency feel ie more air fuel mix in the piston.

 

[Breeze]

Ahh! Ok. Thanks edde. Everyday is a skool-day I guess!

I drove my Puma for 4yrs and 114K miles thinking the kick I got at 4K revs was the VVT! Now I know better.

 

[BenR]

Do a search for the proper running in procedure, ive said it a million times.

 

[Breeze]

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 04 July 2004

Do a search for the proper running in procedure, ive said it a million times.

I get loads of diff ideas all over the place Ben. Some say thrash it from new and some say treat it gently. Ive done a bit of both by driving it hard all the time throughout thew rev range but increasing the max revs gradually. Went to 5K yesterday for 100miles and 6K today for another 100. Tomorrow Ill be at 7K - red-line - job done!

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by Breeze on 04 July 2004

I get loads of diff ideas all over the place Ben. Some say thrash it from new and some say treat it gently. Ive done a bit of both by driving it hard all the time throughout thew rev range but increasing the max revs gradually. Went to 5K yesterday for 100miles and 6K today for another 100. Tomorrow Ill be at 7K - red-line - job done!

Best search for the proper technique Ben has wrote about before but when you drive it from the garage get it warm and get it up high to the limiter a few times placing loads of load on the engien. It helps to make a good seal between the piston rings and the cylinder so there less blowby so more power. You need to do this within 20 miles as thats when you have a chance to bed then in after than you cannot do this.

 

[Breeze]

bugger... seems i missed out on that edde as ive done 800 miles or so now. never mind.. it still feels quick to me and i get to red line it tomorrow! yey and given this news i may as well keep my foot down til i hit the limiter! thanks m8.

 

[qwerty]

edde + lagerlout1, where did you get that idea from?

The surge after 5,000rpm IS the VVT!

"At high rpm (usually 4500 rpm to 6500 rpm range, depending on the engine) the ECU sends a signal to an oil control valve that allows oil pressure to flow into the low-rpm rocker arms"


[Edited by qwerty on 05 July 2004 at 5:32am]

[Edited by qwerty on 05 July 2004 at 5:32am]

[Edited by qwerty on 05 July 2004 at 7:51am]

 

[qwerty]

After a bit more research Im not quite right, Renault dont use "low-rpm rocker arms".

With Renaults VVT the exhaust timing, duration and lift always remain constant as per non-VVT. The inlet duration and lift also always remain constant as per non-VVT.

Its only the inlet timing that is altered with VVT.

At about 5,000 rpm the inlet cam timing is advanced by oil pressure being fed into the VVT device.

But that does mean the surge over 5,000 rpm IS the VVT!

 

[BenR]

The cam is phased at 800mb from 1450rpm upwards, 5000rpm isnt the VVT phasing, been over it once and a million times.

The VVT system is simplistic and not there for power.

 

[blaupunkt]

out of intrest if its not there for power what is it there for, what does it do exactky ?

 

[182 sport]

makes the car idle better,run smoother at low revs etc

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by blaupunkt on 19 July 2004

out of intrest if its not there for power what is it there for, what does it do exactky ?

Make more torque mid range. But realy its more for marketing IMO.

 

[Liam]

Quote: Originally posted by bsimmer3000 on 03 July 2004

i have thrased mine from new and it seems to go like f*** bro is macanic for vw and he said that new engines dont need this run in time. he even told me about the golf engines. they get them and put them on max revs for 2 weeks non stop from new. just to make sure they can take it. he said the engine even on basic golfs can rev @ 7000rpm 24/7 for 2 weeks and have zero problems. he says this goes for all engines these days. he even said the best engines seem to be on the test cars lol.





Ive read this before, but I can not see any maufacturer running engines for this long, using all that fuel on every engine, thousands!, imagine the cost. Yes modern engines are made to much finer detail than before, but I find it hard to believe they are all run from new.

I took mine steady for first 750 miles, just follow the manual, if its right or not it certainly feels, right and better for the car.

Liam

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by Liam182 on 19 July 2004

Quote: Originally posted by bsimmer3000 on 03 July 2004

i have thrased mine from new and it seems to go like f*** bro is macanic for vw and he said that new engines dont need this run in time. he even told me about the golf engines. they get them and put them on max revs for 2 weeks non stop from new. just to make sure they can take it. he said the engine even on basic golfs can rev @ 7000rpm 24/7 for 2 weeks and have zero problems. he says this goes for all engines these days. he even said the best engines seem to be on the test cars lol.




Ive read this before, but I can not see any maufacturer running engines for this long, using all that fuel on every engine, thousands!, imagine the cost. Yes modern engines are made to much finer detail than before, but I find it hard to believe they are all run from new.

One is probably taken of the line ever few thousand to check its tolerances probably.

Theres no way a manurfactures could afford to do this to ever engine Even Merc with there AMG cars only run them for a short time.

 

[blaupunkt]

i cant remember where i read it now but i read that they (renault) do 6 hours bench running or something before they even get put in the car, could this be what he means ?



still ill be doing mine more or less to the book

 

[qwerty]

Is it pure coincidence?

On Renaults with VVT there is a device which switches oil pressure when the engine reaches about 5,000 rpm and this advances the inlet valve timing.

On Renaults with VVT there is also an increase in power at about 5,000 rpm.

Neither of these are true for non-VVT engines.

Are people suggesting that both of these facts are pure coincidence?

Its easy to prove, unplug the VVT valve and see if the power surge at 5,000 rpm disappears. Ill bet it does!

 

[Ruprect]

How much does it cost to change the oil? what oil should I use and is it best to take it in to a garage and have them do it?? just done approx 1.5K in my Cup and would like the peace of mind to give the oil system a flush but not sure I can be arsed if it is a load of hassle.... Thoughts and suggestions welcome... cheers

 

[Lee]

qwerty, its not the VVT that gives the kick, its the cams becoming there most efficient or something like that. If you search fot it there have been lots of posts on that.

Ruprect, Renault charge £70 for an oil and filter change.

 

[CocoPops]

Have you had your oiled changed yet Lee? Or when do you plan to do it?

 

[JAF 182]

It seems a bit of a coincidence that the VVT and the power hike both occur at 5k... As I understand it the efficiency of an engine at various engine speeds is generally a compromise to try and maintain driveability throughout the range. The VVT allows the engine designer to extend the usable rev range maintaining standard valve opening and closing times lower down and getting a bit more radical at higher revs (i.e above 5k for the RS Clio!). Other (inlet in this case) functions of course come into play such as, valve lift, inlet trumpet length, plenum chamber effects from the inlet airbox, throttle body diameter, etc - and its when all these factors collectively have a positive effect that you get a particular hike in power. In racing engines for example all the factors are optimised to maximise power - inevitably over a narrow range.

My guess is that the VVT contributes to an overall positive effect - camminess on-cam call it what you will - at 5-7k that gives the Clio the grin factor.

 

[qwerty]

As I understand it, the VVT is switched on by the ECU opening an oil pressure valve to the VVT device that advances the inlet cam.

As I understand it, the ECU switches this valve at about 5,000 rpm (ie its not variable or multi stage - its on or off)

Is this true?

If so any 182 owner could locate this valve, pull off the connector (to prevent VVT happening and leaving the engine with fixed valve timing) and finding if the power surge at 5,000 is still there.

Id bet the engine then acts like a normal non-VVT!

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by JAF 182 on 20 July 2004

It seems a bit of a coincidence that the VVT and the power hike both occur at 5k... . The VVT allows the engine designer to extend the usable rev range maintaining standard valve opening and closing times lower down and getting a bit more radical at higher revs (i.e above 5k for the RS Clio!). Other (inlet in this case) functions of course come into play such as, valve lift, inlet trumpet length, plenum chamber effects from the inlet airbox, throttle body diameter, etc - and its when all these factors collectively have a positive effect that you get a particular hike in power.
My guess is that the VVT contributes to an overall positive effect - camminess on-cam call it what you will - at 5-7k that gives the Clio the grin factor.

The VVT has nothing to do with the 5k kick from the engine its the cams difficult to belive but its true trust me.

If you activate the vvt at idle the engine idles like a tractor.

The VVT is as mentioned before is operational when coolent over 80 degress manifold pressure is 850Mbar (or around that) and the RPM is between 1800 and 6k.

Trust me on this cams are the 5k kick nothing else VVT is nothing to do with it.

 

[edde]

Quote: Originally posted by qwerty on 20 July 2004

As I understand it, the ECU switches this valve at about 5,000 rpm (ie its not variable or multi stage - its on or off)
If so any 182 owner could locate this valve, pull off the connector (to prevent VVT happening and leaving the engine with fixed valve timing) and finding if the power surge at 5,000 is still there.

Id bet the engine then acts like a normal non-VVT!

No your right about how it does it (intake cam only though is adjusted)

It operated as Ive said earlier between 1.8k and 6(or 6.5 I forget)k when coolent over 80 degress and manifold pressure is 800mbar or more.

The 172 and 182 are the same engine almost.

If you activate the VVT at idle the engine idles like a tractor. Youll still get the 5k kick. Id put money on it.

 

[qwerty]

edde, fair enough but we agree that VVT is either on or off (ie its not variable or multi stage).

But you say its switched on above 1800 rpm if water above 80 and manifold pressure is over 800mbar?

So if a 182 is driven with the VVT disconnected, you say it will still have a power surge at 5,000 rpm?

Does any 182 owner feel like performing the experiment?