Show me your graph!

[Chip-mk1]

is a dyno not a dyno? lol. whats the difference?

Sadly not mate, they vary massively in the results they will give for the same car.

And even on the same dyno, if the operator wants to there are normally ways to effect the outcome.

Adding 10bhp to a cars output by placing the temp sensor somewhere inappropriate, or fudging the baro settings or strapping the car down is easy enough.

A dyno operator who wants to can easily show you categorically on his dyno that your car definately had another 10bhp since you fitted the air freshener he told you to.


Take it all with a pinch of salt unless you know and trust the operator and are comparing 2 cars from the same dyno.

 

[Jakey92]

4x pics request: Standard 172-182-197-200 on the same dyno. From multiple sources if need be? Pleaseeeeeee

 

[Dan519]

Std 197, then with my prototype induction kit fitted

My 172
Jenvey DCOE 48 ITBs
GEN90 ECU
Cat 421s
182 manifold, custom cat pipe to 2.25 Janspeed exhaust
Headwork by me

 

[w33 brl]

My turbos graph 1.2 bar peak boost

 

[MartinR]

K-tec induction kit, k-tec ultra exhaust system and sports cat and the fastchip ron98 map.

We was told to add 15% to the ATW figure (158) so according to my pants maths its about 181.7bhp ATF, Limiter looks to have come in early imo?

192.8bhp

 

[brucey106]

I was told it ran 360bhp and was knocked back a bit.

 

[mi16chris]

182 ktr itbs , cat cams 421s gen90 mapped by Steven gault,piper system and decat ,wish I had fitted some longer trumpets

 

[newb]

High comp engine, engine dynamic cams, decat and btb exhaust.

 

[Andyman]

High comp engine, engine dynamic cams, decat and btb exhaust.

Fair drops a chunk of torque between 3 and 4k rpm. Is that typical for a high comp engine or those cams?

 

[neil a]

High comp,cams,worked head,jenveys with 140mm trumpets

 

[Chip-mk1]

422s neil a;

 

[neil a]

Nope chip still on the ED cams but they seem maxed as die on their ass after 7500 rpm, we upped the limiter to 7800 and the power dropped so took it back to 7500 for safety as still on standard rods.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Surprised to see them making those numbers then!
Wonder if its a bit of a difference between the rollers you are on and ones I am used to though, shame they all vary so much!

 

[neil a]

I know chip rollers can vary so much thats why i have stuck to the same ones as I can then overly old and new graphs.
I know on my old set up we had the standard injectors at 100% which others have had between 210 and 215 out of on healthy engines, on this set up with the Pico 490 injectors we had to add a good bit of timing throughout the map but also had to pull some timing.
If i check the injector duty and timing at peak power will that give you a ruff indication of power.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Not really accurate enough without exact fuel pressure to the psi etc too and even then it's only going to be an educated guess no better than the rollers.

The fact you ran out on standard injectors proves it must be working well.
Porkies old engine me and mike built with those cams was 212bhp and that was on inferior very short bodies and with a cat still in place. So I'm sure at least 220 is very realistic from yours.

im not a huge fan of the quality of those ED cams. But they do work really really well.

 

[l33th3tr33]

172 Cup with the following mods -

Scorpion catback exhaust (with cat)
Ktec panel filter in standard air box

 

[Chip-mk1]

179 is a good result on those mods

 

[l33th3tr33]

179 is a good result on those mods

Dan did say that he thought it would be high 170's when he done the belts, and I was very happy with the results! I'm pondering matched inlets and a decat next to see the difference.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Dan did say that he thought it would be high 170's when he done the belts, and I was very happy with the results! I'm pondering matched inlets and a decat next to see the difference.

Ah Dan@SJM did the timing. That's a good start on any f4r for a decent result tbh. So many done wrong by local garages.

 

[The Russian.]

197 cams, matched inlets,stealth exhaust and SR induction setup.

Need a new lambda sensor

 

[l33th3tr33]

Ah @Dan@SJM did the timing. That's a good start on any f4r for a decent result tbh. So many done wrong by local garages.

The timing was well out apparently, which doesn't surprise me as the previous owner gave a spanner handy pikey a back hander to do the belts. The difference was night and day though, and I can't thank Dan enough!

 

[Chip-mk1]

The timing was well out apparently, which doesn't surprise me as the previous owner gave a spanner handy pikey a back hander to do the belts. The difference was night and day though, and I can't thank Dan enough!

Ha ha. Bet you were well pleased at the difference for "only" having the belts done!

 

[l33th3tr33]

Ha ha. Bet you were well pleased at the difference for "only" having the belts done!

Very! It's a lot more useable now! I'm not sure where I'm going with engine mods though, I'd love ITBs but not sure I can justify the bang/buck. I'll see what difference the matched inlets and decat make first I think, what's the rough gains on the inlets?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Matched inlets seem to give about 2bhp +/- 2

ie 0-4, so nothing you are likely to really notice.

 

[Dan@SJM]

To be honest, people moan about these engines not getting great gains for the money, but tbh the best gain per £ is probably having the belts done at a specialist lol

 

[l33th3tr33]

Flol! I think what it lacks in being easy to gain power it more than makes up for in handling, IMO.

I'd be happy with a couple bhp from the inlets, better than nothing and if it doesn't gain then I'll sell them on.

 

[Clart]

Be interested to see what it is now

matched inlets
remap
yozza
standard induction

 

[Chip-mk1]

54bhp of drag. Hope a lot of that is in the rollers themself. Lol.

On dyno dynamics 133 at wheels would only get called 156@flywheel.

 

[Dan519]

powerstation havn't programmed the static brake losses into their software (it's a retro fitted software onto an older dyno, like the vast majority are), so when they do a losses run down, it doesn't take into account the weight and drag of the rollers and eddy brake etc. if they bothered to do that, it would give a higher ATW figure, and make the ATF figure look more sensible. They always read a bit high there, about 5% up on elsewhere.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Losses run downs are totally inaccurate anyway, its a stupid way to try and measure power as the losses turning a box from the wheels with no resistance from the engine is nothing like what actually happens during the run when the cogs are loaded up hard into each other which causes massively more friction.

Perfect example being my N/A clio and my Turbo clio with the same box etc will show the same rundown losses, but the actual losses during the run will be miles higher on the one with nearly double the power.


Just a silly idea in the first place and I prefer the dyno dynamics way of just admitting they cant measure it and make an educated guess instead.

 

[Jakey92]

Is it an easy job to check the timing? Thinking about getting a price to check mine

 

[Dan@SJM]

I charge £115 for a ckeck/adjust if needed.

 

[sprintcup]

If the timing's out don't you need new belts? I thought you couldn't adjust unless the belts are nearly new, genuine question as I'm now confused.

Regards Russ..........

 

[Tommo.]

If the timing's out don't you need new belts? I thought you couldn't adjust unless the belts are nearly new, genuine question as I'm now confused.

Regards Russ..........

Yes you can adjust the timing, no need for new belts. I had mine done the other month.

 

[sprintcup]

Yes you can adjust the timing, no need for new belts. I had mine done the other month.

Thanks for that, seems to be 2 schools of thought on this then between Traders, I asked the question as mine are 3 years old but the timing needed adjustment for a certain mod and was told it was a risk! and would have to pay for new belts :S I'll leave it at that.
Sorry to the OP for clogging the thread.

Regards Russ.....

 

[Dan@SJM]

Yeh as above, you can do it without removing the belt.

 

[Stunty]

Matched inlets
BMC CDA
K-Tec Supersprint exhaust
RS Tuner map
Approx 90k on the clock, at last years SRR day

 

[Chip-mk1]

Is it an easy job to check the timing? Thinking about getting a price to check mine

You have to get it half apart to get the timing tools on it. So it's a fair bit of labour and you will need new flywheel end camshaft seals as they get damaged removing them.

 

[Andyman]

Price of a set of end caps for 'just' checking surely ?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Price of a set of end caps for 'just' checking surely ?

If it's to just check and not adjust then hardly any labour at all. Caps still needed though.
but realistically if you are checking it's cause it's almost certaily wrong so you are going to need the locking tools on to correct not just the horseshoe to check.