Some fun today with CTR & cup - **PICS**

[DanG]

To say that the 172 is old hat when it comes to hot hatches is wrong IMO.

EVO had the 172 as its best hot hatch for ages before the cooper s came out.

Its true that these new cars that somehow have gotten into the hothatch category have ridiculous amount of power compared to the old ideals of hot hatches.. this being a small car that handled superbly and has enough power to enjoy the chassis.

Cars like the CTR, RS Focus, Alfa GTA really go against the original idea of the hot hatch. They have masses of power and weight also.

Maybe were seeing an evolution of the hot hatch... Im not convinced its for the better though.

 

[Gary Brown]

Ive been saving for a CTR since they came out 18 months ago. During that time I must have test driven 7 or 8, and I was totally in love and convinced. Ive had 2 civics before, an ESi (crap) and a VTi (ace). With the help of a bank loan I managed to get to £13k about a month ago, so off I went to look at used 51 plate CTRs with about 20k on em. Drove another couple, and still convinced.

Then a mate of mine suggested I look at a 172 Clio. I declined. Then he gave me the renault brochure and I turned the page and found the Cup. Wow, I thought. Gotta have a go in one. Found one about a week later (two weeks ago), drove it for 10 mins and my 18 month affair with the CTR was over. I bought the Cup there and then, and have been happily razzing ever since.

The Cup is so eager, and far more torquey than the civic (feels as torquey as my VR6 golf). It feels fast whatever gear, whatever engine speed, where the CTR just feels flat. And the Cups steering and handling leave the CTR for dead in terms of enjoyment. Im a total convert.

Oh, and Ive got £2k change to spend on mods now. Now can someone point me in the direction of some decent seats that still allow access to the back seats? And what about one of those r-sport non-warranty-threatening ECUs, and some 17" turinis?

 

[RobFenn]

Well someone on here has put some almost colour matching Konig seats in, a couple of people have the ECU in so try phoning your dealer. Not sure who supplys the turinis outside of Speedline themselves. Id start a thread with something like FAO cup owners as the title.

-Rob

 

[Gary Brown]

Cheers Rob

 

[geordiepaul]

Quote: Originally posted by fred-dibner on 28 March 2003

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 27 March 2003


racing cams? sure if they cam with teh car they are std cams? lol

The CTR might be fast, and all credit, the K90 engine is fab, but it aint no handler, 2 sec slower than a 172 round coomb and publically printed to have worse dynamic handling than the 1.8 focus......if your wondering who said that, um.....does Steve Sutcliffe ring a bell?

You had all the fun, i sat at home.....pah...






Are you talking out of your bum?

The ctr is one of the best handling cars that you can buy!

Sorry for my ignorance but who is steve sutcliffe?

Wheres BenR? got to see his reply to this!!

 

[RobFenn]

lol

 

[Steveold]

Mmmmm type-Rs..... I cant wait till I get rid of my French Poo and get a Jap Rocket!!!

 

[RobFenn]

Oi Mr generalisation dont bring the clio reputation down!

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by fred-dibner on 28 March 2003

Quote: Originally posted by BenR on 27 March 2003


racing cams? sure if they cam with teh car they are std cams? lol

The CTR might be fast, and all credit, the K90 engine is fab, but it aint no handler, 2 sec slower than a 172 round coomb and publically printed to have worse dynamic handling than the 1.8 focus......if your wondering who said that, um.....does Steve Sutcliffe ring a bell?

You had all the fun, i sat at home.....pah...






Are you talking out of your bum?

The ctr is one of the best handling cars that you can buy!

Sorry for my ignorance but who is steve sutcliffe?

Marc CTR : Is this the same steve sutcliffe that said it was the best FWD car he had ever driven only a couple of issues before he made that remark in Autocar?

Hello!

nice to see new people popping onto the forum whent he car pops up. Im sure on the CTR forum people are raving about what a silly person said on this forum, as we do when teh saxo boys say the same..lol

Anyway, no im not talking out of my bum, the 172 beat a CTR by 2 secs rounds coomb, plain and simple, same driver same day. nowt mroe to say.

Steve Sutcliffe is a jurno (although i never trust what jurnos say, but most people do when something good is printed about their car, but say its jurno pap when something derogatory is said...strange eh?) and i cant remmeber if he has anything to do with the racing sutcliffe, my minds a blank.

I gave credit to the CTR where it was due, and its chassis is not the greatest, so why beat around the bush, its good, but not great, and ill admit the std the F4R unit in the Clios aint great, its good. Ive seen a K90 run 270bhp still on a shared planham, whilst ive only seen a F4R run 215bhp on throttle bodie, mind you the 270 had about 15 grands worth of engie work, the F4R was std basically.

 

[Steveold]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 28 March 2003

Oi Mr generalisation dont bring the clio reputation down!

Hahaha.... Its true though... I dont wana buy another French car ever again.. Maybe if my car wouldnt have gone wrong so much then I would have. Mainly though its coz the government are too spineless to help us in this war.

 

[BenR]

now theres some odd car buying logic!!!??

 

[Graham Gooch]

ok,

thing is the ctr that go to japan (JDM) are actually different, they have a different ecu, higher red line 8800rpm, limiter is full scale 9000rpm, and most importantly are fitted with a LSD, which completely transforms the handling,

a JDM civic makes 215bhp and i have no doubts as to say it would beat a clio 172 or cup on twisties and straight line, full whack is limited to 110mph though like all jap cars, of course you can remove that.......

and they make them here, dont think there is enough interest in this country to deem worth them selling it here, reason ctr is such a bargain is that is comes detuned! and no LSD (which it needs for its power)

 

[BenR]

funny how they work out cost, i.e. makea rapido car, then spend more money detuning it form its original spec....haha,

Japan have more money though.....but smaller garages!

 

[RobFenn]

Tell me how the LSD transforms the handling

 

[172man]

id have one if it came like the Jap one, i presume traction and getting more grip from the LSD?

 

[172man]

why do we get the crap version?

 

[RobFenn]

Its less extreme to cope with our roads, and theyre going to want to save money if they can.

The LSD cant transform the way the CTR feels, not enough feedback, its all too numb, unconnected and not natural.

We have these CTR debates every other week, how many times must i make my point lol

 

[172man]

its the original dynamics; you cant make a double decker bus a super hatch

 

[Ben H]

Aaron - I think the CTR is a car that appeals to Valver drivers: its the high-rev thing.

My flatmate has a new CTR and a 16v that hes had for about 6 years. He says that the CTR is faster, but by not as much as youd think and that the handling is way better on his 16v. Guess thats why he kept it! (if youre wondering why he shelled out on a CTR it was because his Valver is on 135k miles and has seen better days).

 

[BenR]

i.e it looks shoddy and the paint is flat.....

he dont seem to car tho, he said hello then drove off on teh 3rd rpm after starting! lol

tough little thing!

 

[BenR]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 28 March 2003

Tell me how the LSD transforms the handling

I know it hard to believe rob, but cars with power can spinup and inside wheel and direct all teh power to it, leaving you to go slow.

or does that happen on your beat aswell?

Im going to ignore 172mans original dynamics stuff........but saying that, these caramel mild choco digestives arent anything spesh, you can tase teh original dnamics of a plain digestive under there, not a very good base to start with is it.....LOL!!!

 

[172 slayer]

How the mighty have fallen

Hondas philosophy is to build a car around the engine,the trouble with the CTR is that they robbed the body shell from postman pat the steering from a tractor and the suspension settings from a lowerd 1.3 Nova SR. This cocktail may look good on paper when you quote mag performance figs, but in the REAL WORLD the CTR is being found out for what is is ORDINARY.The castle Combe hot hatch judgement day is a example of this where very ordinary cars beat it round the track on a circuit that favoured the CTRs high power.As some one said to me recently"it aint no good having all that power if you cant put it all down on the road"-does that count for turbo clios as well?

Slayer

 

[teady172]

The MG did well that day didnt it Slayer!

 

[BenR]

LMAO!

 

[172 slayer]

What makes me laugh about the CTR boyz is that they must spend most of there time trawling other forums defending the honour of the CTR.They are clearly suffering from an inferiority complex and try to justify their lemon of a car by rubishing others.You only have to look at all that bollX they write on the CTR forum-tussle with a ferrari ect ect.You dont here about all the cars they get spanked by.If i had a cup and a CTR in me rear view id be more worried about the Cup than postman pat.



Slayer

 

[teady172]

No reaction!

This guys a pro!!

 

[172man]

you wouldnt understand anyway..

 

[172 slayer]

"The MG did well that day didnt it Slayer!"

2nd iirc,not bad for a barge.

Slayer

 

[Rich ctr]

Quote: Originally posted by Sangy on 28 March 2003



Strange that as my mate sh1tes himself everytime he goes in my Cup and hes owned two CTRs? He thinks my Cup is faster although I have had it tuned. I really like the CTR though, lovely cars to drive IMHO. Wouldnt swap my Cup for it though but they are nice....and fast!





Hay Sangy.......I have never admitted yer Cup is faster than my CTR.......come to think of it I NEVER WILL

Yak........yak..........yak!

 

[Simon172]

CTRs arent that much faster really if at all, and the ones ive come accross have been identical in terms of top end/acceleration to mine. Whats all the fuss about?