sound system on, and the engine is off :/

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

So i hooked up my amp today, put the main power lead onto the battery, tried starting it ... and nothing, then engine wont turn, remove the cable and the engine starts. someone know how i can get passed this problem? thanks

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

come on someone gotta know bout it? i wanna take her out for a drive with the system all in

 

[Keano]

buy a bigger battery? sounds like as soon as you turn the key, the system drains all the energy needed to start the car.

 

[guysy]

Alternator, Battery or earth leads? Usually one or some of the 3.

 

[Struggler]

you sure the power wire on the amp wasnt shorting out,
might be worth checking out

 

[mikey123]

just buy a power cap or bigger battery as said, how big is your system??

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

buy a bigger battery? sounds like as soon as you turn the key, the system drains all the energy needed to start the car.

thats not the problem as i can run the system while just turning the ignition 2 clicks without starting the engine, plus already have a bigger battery than the standard clio one.

Alternator, Battery or earth leads? Usually one or some of the 3.

Earth leads, doubt it as my system runs, just cant start the car. alternator onlyplays effct when the car is running, not so?

you sure the power wire on the amp wasnt shorting out,
might be worth checking out

That might be the problem, but how do i find out and solve it if it is the prob?

just buy a power cap or bigger battery as said, how big is your system??

Like i said i dont believe its the battery. well i got a JBL GTO 75.4 amp, running a 10" kicker sub and a pair of 6" JBL GTO splits in the rear, front 4" splits are playing of a alpine ida-x001 headunit.

Thanks for the help guys, really appreciate it

 

[swell]

dont geta power cap just get another battery and hide it in the boot somewer... i got a power cap rip off.com

 

[jack_davey]

sounds like it's shorting to me

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

sounds like it's shorting to me

yeah i also rate its shorting somewhere...but how do i get it sorted? :S

 

[wallop]

Didn't post because I don't know Exactly whats wrong.....But seems people are guessing now so I will have one


First one----Car alarm runs through the stereo loom and new stereo has screwed the immobiliser circuit, (you don't state if you tried starting the car with the headunit on but the amp disconnected).....

 

[AlexG]

Good shout^^^ try with your old headunit and see if it starts.

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

Didn't post because I don't know Exactly whats wrong.....But seems people are guessing now so I will have one


First one----Car alarm runs through the stereo loom and new stereo has screwed the immobiliser circuit, (you don't state if you tried starting the car with the headunit on but the amp disconnected).....

Good shout^^^ try with your old headunit and see if it starts.

I love it when theres a problem on the forum that baffles the sh*t out of everyone, its so exciting ... its like christmas, except earlier I just hope we solve it tho, or else it gonna be like China for me, no presents!

Yeah the car starts no problem when i disconnect the power cable to the amp, and the headunit plays aswell, but the minute i attach the cable and try starting it again.....nothing.....just hear a click and thats it! I thought perhaps the frenchies put on some over ride for when you attach something foreign to the battery, cause thats what it seems like

Ok so i guess its all hands on deck... keep throwing the guesses at me, its bound to get solved sooner or later lol

 

[AlexG]

Lol, just to make sure, your power lead is definately connected to the positive terminal on the battery. Yeah?

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

Lol, just to make sure, your power lead is definately connected to the positive terminal on the battery. Yeah?

lol yeah it is, God id hope id atleast get that right seeing as i did the entire install by myself :rasp:

 

[wallop]

Try it with remote supply from head unit disconnected, (use a short wire off the amps remote terminal to take a jump from the amp live terminal to imitate system switching on & off)....

I think the issue is a simple incorrect wiring connection behind the head unit....Have you simply hard wired the new unit in, or used over the counter patch leads???? Maybe there are two or more types & you have been supplied incorrectly????

Are you actually removing the Amps power lead from the batt terminal, or simply pulling the fuse????

A simple process of elimination would take hours to explain here, unfortunately I still couldn't be sure without actually testing it myself.....

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

Try it with remote supply from head unit disconnected, (use a short wire off the amps remote terminal to take a jump from the amp live terminal to imitate system switching on & off)....

I think the issue is a simple incorrect wiring connection behind the head unit....Have you simply hard wired the new unit in, or used over the counter patch leads???? Maybe there are two or more types & you have been supplied incorrectly????

Are you actually removing the Amps power lead from the batt terminal, or simply pulling the fuse????

A simple process of elimination would take hours to explain here, unfortunately I still couldn't be sure without actually testing it myself.....

Amps live terminal? that were the power is supplied to?

I didnt need to buy any connections, the looms from the old clio headunit plugged straight into the alpine headunit, no problems

Yeah im actually taking the power cable off the terminal, then starting the car

I dont believe its the headunit tho, cause like i said, with the amp disconnected and the headunit connected the car starts, its only when i connect the amp to the battery that it wont start :S

thanks for the input lol (pun intended )

 

[Sean.]

new battery and power cap is the last thing you need to do. No reason the car shouldnt start just because it has an amp to run!

In fact a power cap is something you should NEVER do! lol

 

[agithegreat]

How about REM shorting out on the chassis somewhere.... but the fuse in the HU wiring loom isnt the correct rating. So it's producing a short circuit, which tel the ECU to not start the engine?
Mad guess. But check the remote wire for grounding!

Will it work as long as all cables are in place but not atached to the amplifier? I.e. all cables are lying into boot, or under seat or wherever. But not physically attached to the amplifier.
If the car works when the cables are in place, and you're sure you're wiring it up correctly into the amplifier. Then i'd be fairly confident in saying it's the amplifier power supply! Or bridging of earths. But i've never known a jbl go a wobbler!

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

WOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO, christmas has arrived, my car starts... and who was the lucky santa that diagnosed the problem correctly?? "drum roll" well i guess we'll never know LOL, cause i didnt change anything, just decided to try it again this morning and the angel started up. My guess is that she thought the amp was another female that was gonna try steal me from her, so she rejected the b*tch, but when i was working on my amp last night i called him a d*ick, so my angel must have realised then that the amp is infact a male, so she decided to let him climb aboard...and presto its sorted

However there is still chance for a new santa to be chosen, as i have another problem. Off my amp JBL GTO 75.4 i have a 6" split system JBL GTO series and a kicked sub. however when i try set the amp up, by increasing my input to my splits, the amp hits protect mode. My method: I increase my volume on my HU to half max, then go to the amp and increase my input till i almost reach a half decent volume, but before i get there it hits protect mode :S or i leave the input level slightly lower, turn the volume on the HU up and it hits protect, OR i turn up the volume on the HUm increase the input to a level a little below the level where it hits protect, and then when a heavy beat comes on during the song, the amp will hit protect! F*ck me but this install is starting to piss me off! Any one able to help? ill go with the peopl who KNOW the solution, if that fails then as before all guesses open LOL

thanks guys

 

[agithegreat]

Amplifiers go into protect for a number of reasons...
Turn gain down onto minimum.
Then Double check your earth!
Normally they go inot protect if they can't get a nice stable voltage!
Also ensure your engine is running whilst doing this, to not stress your battery (expecially if it's an old battery)
Then, put your headunit up to where it will start to distort, about 28 on alpine's. 80%ish.
Then turn gains up until distortion is heard! Ideally you should scope, but just don't go over the top and you wont wreck your speakers .

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

Amplifiers go into protect for a number of reasons...
Turn gain down onto minimum.
Then Double check your earth!
Normally they go inot protect if they can't get a nice stable voltage!
Also ensure your engine is running whilst doing this, to not stress your battery (expecially if it's an old battery)
Then, put your headunit up to where it will start to distort, about 28 on alpine's. 80%ish.
Then turn gains up until distortion is heard! Ideally you should scope, but just don't go over the top and you wont wreck your speakers .

cheers mate ill give it a go

 

[wallop]

Hi mate,

For basic amp setting by ear check THIS THREAD, POST 3 , you may find other info helpful too???

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

Hi mate,

For basic amp setting by ear check THIS THREAD, POST 3 , you may find other info helpful too???

aaaah cheers mate, you're a champ, gonna give that a good read through right away, much appreciated

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

A guy on talk audio said this " This might be useful to you.

If you have both left and right RCAs plugged into the amp from the Alpine, try taking one out. I had the same problem with mine, I have a Blaupunkt sub and Alpine x200 and mine always hit protect mode until I only used 1 rca lead, only sussed it yesterday.

I think the sub out on the Alpine x200 is amplified, so the amp on the sub is getting too much input when both RCAs are used. Thats the only logical thing I could think of. "

you think htis could be the problem? but if it is and i remove the one set of RCA cables for my sub, then my sub stops playing. Unless perhaps if i were to plug them into the other set of output plugs behind the radio, which according to this guys comment, should not be amped.

But thing is this, on my old set up i had a set of components and a sub running off one amp, however i only had one set of RCA cables running to the HU from the amp, and both my sub and components played, but now i have to plug them seperately, one for comps and one for sub?????

 

[wallop]

Then the guy on TA is sprouting crap....

A pre-out is just that, Pre-Amplified....

There are a number of issues which can cause what your experiencing;

1, Poor amplifier earth causing high resistance, (high resistance = voltage drop)...
2, Power Cable of incorrect rating, (too small causing high resistance induced voltage drop)...
3, Faulty AGU fuse, (causing high resistance induced voltage drop)...
4, Loose or poor power cable connection at battery clamp...
5, Loose or poor earth cable connection at battery clamp...
6, Poor amplifier earth site, (area should be cleaned back to bare metal & be located to the cars chassis)...
7, Poor amplifier 'gain' setting, (too high)...


There are a few others but thats enough to start with....

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

Then the guy on TA is sprouting crap....

A pre-out is just that, Pre-Amplified....

There are a number of issues which can cause what your experiencing;

1, Poor amplifier earth causing high resistance, (high resistance = voltage drop)...
2, Power Cable of incorrect rating, (too small causing high resistance induced voltage drop)...
3, Faulty AGU fuse, (causing high resistance induced voltage drop)...
4, Loose or poor power cable connection at battery clamp...
5, Loose or poor earth cable connection at battery clamp...
6, Poor amplifier earth site, (area should be cleaned back to bare metal & be located to the cars chassis)...
7, Poor amplifier 'gain' setting, (too high)...


There are a few others but thats enough to start with....

thats what i had on my mind when i read it, thanks for the pointers, gonna get started on them now now. ill report back with results a lil later.

PS: that post you made on amps, ohm's and the lot was ace, really good enjoyable read

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

Ok im seriosuly fkn pi*sed off!!! i changed my location of earth, as suggested, to the tyre well in the boot, where that long metal pole with a thread on extends to the level of the boot floor, sanded it down, attatched the earth and still the same sh*t! I did the amplifier setting by ear, turned all gains down, frequencies etc as said in ur post. First did the 1khz, amp whent into protect mode just after the point at where i was to turn the gain down (fair enough i thought), then whent to do the sub, put on the 50hz and before i could even turn my volume 1/3 of the way to 20% below max, my blasted amp hits protect again !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gees, im losing patients, starting to think that perhaps its the sub that cant handle the power that the amp produces....God i dunno anymore

But it seems like the earth aint the real problem here

 

[wallop]

Oh dear, sounds like your getting stressed....

Reckon it's time to get a little more involved....

With engine running check the voltage reading across the battery terminals using a multi-meter, should register approx 14.4v....

Now measure the voltage across the amp terminals, (+ve & -ve), this reading should be within 0.5v of the battery reading at normal listening volumes....

Firstly I need to know what guage power cable your using....
Secondly I need to know if you have ADDED an extra battery earth to match the new amp power cable....
Thirdly I need to know if you have tried swapping the main power lead fuse at the battery, (its possible the fuse is faulty)....

Check all your connections on both the positive & negative sides of the amp for signs of heat build up, discoloured cables for example....

If you can't find any issues now, then it must be a simple set up issue....

You should remember that a head units out put level increases at far greater rates the higher up the volume scale you go, so if your setting your gains at say level 25 you will be loosing out on quite a large chunk of performance which the amp may not be able to subsidise without going into over current protection...

I believe your using a JBL 75.4, these amps are usually pretty bullet proof, the main fault I find with these is usually incorrect power cable size, (JBL recommend 8awg over no more than 9ft), I personally wouldn't use less than 4awg....(4awg over 12ft at a draw of 80amps will lose at least 0.5v, 8awg will drop a fair bit more)....

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

Yeah this install is getting the better of me i wont lie, actually just the amp. But ill hold strong and get the ba*tard to work FOR me, with a fair bit of help ofcourse (which i highly appreciate)

ok ill check that in the morning and get back to you.

But please explain to me how i could lose more current when running a higher guage wire, surely the higher the guage the better the flow? (ofcourse i could stand corrected, hence i ask)

 

[polishdon@hotmail.com]

ok so i got some good news and some bad news :S Good news is that i found the problem, after connecting the endings for the speaker wires which came with the JBL components, i found out that they were a bit to big, and that every now and then they were touching eachother/shorting out, resulting in my amp hitting protect. Bad nes is that i proceeded to set up the amp.

1KHZ test whent fine, couldnt even increse input to where the tone changes as it was simply getting way too loud and felt like my ears were gonna burst.

Then did the 50HZ set up, and i increased my HU volume to about 65% and after like one second i heard (pop), only to look back and see my boot filled with smoke.

Turns out i blew one of my component speakers....great innit. Now i need to find out if its possible to order just one speaker from a component set, the speaker that i blew obviously?

Thanks all for your help and advice, glad i solved the mystery, a bit peeved i blew a speaker....but hey what you gonna do. Sh*t happens as Mr Gump always said