The bugger took 15 attempts to start just now!

[pendulumx]

I stopped to get petrol and the damn thing wouldn't restart, I had to push it out of the way of the pumps

I don't know if it's related but in the last week I've seen the red light flash when trying to start the car (and the engine hasn't turned over), but it always worked second time.

This time the engine was turning over for a couple of seconds and then stopping although a couple of times it refused to even turn over at all, I don't think the red light was flashing though.

I've got to take someone to Heathrow in the next hour, these things always happen at the worst of times It's at home now and I have tried to restart it and it restarted fine but I can't trust it now

I think it was yesterday I said in the "Are Renaults reliable" thread that I was saving up for a big bill, jinxed myself. Any clues to what's wrong?

 

[MicKPM]

First guess would be the crank position sensor. The poor hot starting but okay when its cooled is the main basis for this but you need to be sure the LED is not flashing you to death when it happens as that is deffo the imob inhibiting starting and could be the key, the decoder or something between them and the UCH.

Mick

 

[pendulumx]

Thanks Mick

The car got me to heathrow and back - I was very careful not to stall it in traffic or turn the engine off at any point!

Just as well as I've just spent 10 minutes trying to start it, and only managed to fire it up twice! (From a cold engine).
Here is a better description of what is going on:

Most of the time (80%), the immobiliser light IS flashing quickly, and the car won't even attempt to turn over.

But occasionally (15%), the light definitely remains solid, and this is how I am sometimes able to turn the engine over without it starting. If I insert the key and turn it quickly, the engine will turn over (but not start) and the light will remain solid red. But if I insert the key and wait just 3 or 4 seconds before turning it, the light will remain solid red but it will not turn over.

And then 5% of the time, it will start as normal, and once it's started it's fine.

I've scanned it with my code reader and the only error is P0110 Intake Air Temperature which I know has been there a while; I'm pretty sure that's unrelated?

So, damn it. As you say, if the light flashes it means it's an immobiliser problem - it must be then... does the fact the light sometimes stays red (and the engine will turn but not fire) give any clues?

I shall now begin a night of reading past threads in the hope of finding a solution! ;(

 

[Matt@codered]

Got a spare key?

 

[pendulumx]

I wish I did so I could try it, but the car only came with one key and the previous owner had lost the other.

 

[MicKPM]

try changing the battery in the keyfob. If this doesnt work a new key is looking likely and you might as well have x2 done for the one diagnostic fee.

 

[pendulumx]

I didn't think of the battery, as I thought the transponder would work even if the battery was flat? But I have noticed I need to get quite close to the car before the remote central locking will work, so it sounds plausible and I will definitely buy a new battery tomorrow.

I've been reading about keys being a common cause of this... I've read the trick about pressing the button in when you turn the key, and putting the key in both sides, but that doesn't seem to help. The key looks in good condition. I opened it up to see what battery was needed and had a look at the circuit board while I was there, with a 30x magnifying lens, and I couldn't see any damage to the pcb or broken solder joints etc. I put it all back together and went to start the car but the red light remained solid for several attempts. On the 12th or so try, the car started normally. There was no flashing this time, so it seems to vary between "red light flashing all the time" and "red light remains solid" whenever it feels like it! After I drove the car, I turned the engine off and immediately restarted it twice without issue, but I bet in the morning it won't start easily.

Mick (or anyone else), do you do it or know anyone that can clone a key? I don't mind sending it off and I can do without the car for a few days / a week. I could do with a spare even if it turns out my current key is OK and the fault is elsewhere. Hopefully my key's in good enough condition to copy as it at least works some of the time as it manages to start the car occasionally.

 

[MicKPM]

I don't do keys in anyway i'm afraid unless its re-coding existing key sets whilst setting up a new UCH as its dodgy teritory.

I don't think you can "clone" these keys either but if i were you i'd get it looked at properly as the LED is doing some strange things and sending mixed messages; it could be the key but it could be wiring or the decoder to and as keys aren't cheap it would (IMHO) be better to spend a little more on proper diagnostics (not to be confused with "code reading") and know where the problem is than waste £140 on a new key and still be in the same position.

Mick

 

[lewisredfern001]

m8 i cant provide any help, however im am having the same problem, for the 2nd time in the last couple of weeks yesterday my missus cup refused to start, with the stop light and immob light solid red, after about 3 hours and various methods of trying to start it, including holding the lock/unlock button while cranking (which cured it last time) it finally started after i wiggled the key while in the hole as i turned to ignition stage 2. i have a brand new battery in the key fob also. currently winging it and its been fine the rest of yesterday and started fine this morning.

 

[Matt@codered]

Battery is for 'plip' unlocking not connected to immobiliser, unless its a really early clio with time limited unlock and start up, the transponder is for immobiliser.

When you took the key apart did you notice an oblong copper wound block on the PCB, or a small coffin shaped carbon chip, in the moulding of the plastic key body?

 

[pendulumx]

Thanks for the reply Matt, here's a pic that may help. It's a 2002 ph2 172.
I've ordered another battery as it needed replacing anyway due to the range of the central locking not being great, but I'm not expecting it to fix my starting problem

It would be wonderful to have another key to try, but I don't. I may get a new one programmed in because if that doesn't fix the problem, it's not really money wasted because I'll then have a spare key (plus it rules out the key as the cause). I just need to find a cheapish place around the Essex area. I'll avoid rewarding a Renault dealership with the work unless I can avoid it.

I've also seen decoder rings on eBay for £22.50 from Cliospares... if they're easy to fit (are they? ), perhaps I should try that, as it'll either fix the problem or rule something else out, and if it doesn't fix the problem, I could probably sell the decoder ring on again for a tenner so it's really only £12.50 to try it!

Ultimately if I can't fix it myself it will have to go to a specialist / auto electrician which will probably be £££, so I don't mind having a gamble and trying a few things myself if it's cheap to do. There are no other electrical problems with this car; everything else seems to work fine.

 

[Matt@codered]

The oblong copper wound block is the transponder. I think it is possible to gain the code from the key and have the copper oblong deleted and have a carbon chip burnt to replace it.
The decoder rings are all the same for the clio 2 so a scrapper will provide the same part as cliospares and you'll probably pay a fiver for it from most scrap yards.....

 

[lewisredfern001]

My car is doing exactly the same thing. Apparently according to a thread I found earlier if the light flashes really quick it means it's an immobiliser issue. If it goes solid red it Mean's the key and decoder are talking but there's a power issue to the Ecu. Which could potentially be a broken wire/bad connection. I shall dig the thread out for you. My cup has been sat for 2 days and not moved because I don't want the incovenience of it not startin if I take it out! But 2mro I'm gonna attempt to sort it

 

[lewisredfern001]

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=612962

Hope this helps

 

[pendulumx]

Thanks chaps

I'll update the thread with what works and what doesn't, it'll probably be Monday when I visit the scrappy (good tip!) and get a new decoder ring and I'll have a look at that wiring too. If that doesn't work then I'll move on to the key, if anyone here offers key programming in the Essex area then please post as I may need to use you! If that doesn't work then the plan is to take it to Renault or a specialist as advised for a proper diagnostic.

 

[Matt@codered]

We are in Kent, so quite a distance.....
See how you get on.