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The everlasting ph1 ITB Build **GREEN-BUILD STARTS AT PAGE 100**



Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
Nankang AR1 or R888 for the road.

Are the AR1's ok in the wet?

Buy some good all-weather tyres for road/wet track use, then just fit slicks for the dry track. Go hard or go home.

Exactly my thoughts. I was thinking slicks for the dry set, but I think I will be needing new suspension before I head towards slicks, something I can stiffen a lot more.
 

massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
I'm being lazy here, but what suspension are you running at the moment? If you're on coilovers all round, you could always chuck some stiffer springs at it, they're cheap enough.
 

neil a

ClioSport Club Member
Hard to say as no real one tire does all , with your car being heavily track biased and would think geo set up for track you will ware tires fairly quick on the road. For this time of year i would go with rainsports( but i do stay in Scotland ) then use them as your wets, as long as they dont get too hot they last well and give good wet and damp grip.
 

massiveCoRbyn

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
Not lazy, I wouldn't bother going back through my thread. I have FK Konigsports but will probably move to AST's in future

Don't really know much about them to be honest, but you'd be alright tweaking the spring rates a bit. As the rest of the suspension is new, that won't be an issue. I'm sure someone on here would be able to advise on some good rates to run with slicks. Spring choice on eBay is almost limitless. You can get the tyres for good money if you keep an eye out for part worns. With slicks and the rest of your spec, you would have a right little rocket on track. Then just buy some decent road tyres for the wet. Or grow a really big pair of balls 😂
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
Hard to say as no real one tire does all , with your car being heavily track biased and would think geo set up for track you will ware tires fairly quick on the road. For this time of year i would go with rainsports( but i do stay in Scotland ) then use them as your wets, as long as they dont get too hot they last well and give good wet and damp grip.

I don't plan on driving it on the road much because as you say the geo is going to be quite aggressive, it would also be for the summer months really - I 100% won't be driving it until the weather turns in the new year.


Don't really know much about them to be honest, but you'd be alright tweaking the spring rates a bit. As the rest of the suspension is new, that won't be an issue. I'm sure someone on here would be able to advise on some good rates to run with slicks. Spring choice on eBay is almost limitless. You can get the tyres for good money if you keep an eye out for part worns. With slicks and the rest of your spec, you would have a right little rocket on track. Then just buy some decent road tyres for the wet. Or grow a really big pair of balls 😂

Thats the thing, they aren't really new at all, they have been with the shell at least 7 years... but not really done that many miles. I will be sure to head the slicks route in future but as I say I think I will wait until new suspension too - by this time I will have good experience with the car too (way more important than more and more mods). As you say though, should be pretty capable with slicks and a decent suspension set-up
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
UPDATE:

Well the thoughts on what tyres to get got solved pretty quickly on Saturday when I spotted @Tomotek was selling some race scrubbed R888R.
I spoke to the wife nicely about getting some rubber as an early birthday present and she obliged and as I was on a merry little tour of the country on Sunday I swung by and picked them up.

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I will look at getting the wheels refurbed in January and the new tyres fitted. These should be perfect for what I need initially (some road legal track focused tyres). I will then look at getting a set of slicks and a second set of wheels in future, but the car needs running and some miles put on it first.

I have managed to tick a few other little jobs off the list the past couple weeks although my time is very limited now, as long as the work keeps moving forward. I have yet to get some good time to go out and look at the loom again but have had to make do with quicker jobs...
New hub nuts were fitted as the old set were pretty old

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There were also a couple of area's in the engine bay where the coolant hoses were/could foul metal/sharp edges - obviously not a good thing. I thought the best way to address this was to protect them with neoprene. I remembered I had several different frame protectors in my MTB spares so I fished them out, cut them to fit and wrapped the area's/hoses in question

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Should do the job nicely. I have also started to look at brake ducting for the front brakes and have a good idea how I am going to address this. More to come soon
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
UPDATE:

Wow, having a baby does cut your free time down somewhat, but then again so does the faff of the christmas period. The last time I posted about the dash I mentioned that I had to wire in a 12v - 5v regulator that would then power up the Oil temp and pressure sensors - I finally managed to get some time to do this over Christmas (well yesterday).

I needed to find the wire going out of the dash loom that would normally be the 5v output (the grey wire, which is redundant in my early Dash2). Once this was found it was snipped and wired to the regulator, which was then in turn wired to an earth and a 12v supply (taken from the same location as the earlier fitted Terminator 12v).

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They were all fitted with heat-shrink connectors...

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But guess what, for some reason they were not powering up the sensors. Frustrating.
I decided it could not be the regulator wiring as I checked this multiple times and it looked spot on.

Instead I was pretty sure it was where I spliced into the 12v supply/the Terminator supply. I decided to cut this back and re-wire but instead of heat-shrink connecting it up I initially mocked it up with just twisted wires. I checked for power multiple times at each point to make sure it was all being wired up correctly and prior to turning the dash on I was getting 4v at both the Oil temp and pressure sensors - promising.

Sure enough when the dash was fired up I finally had data coming from the Oil sensors (all other data from the ECU).

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There is a bit of a concern that the calibration on the Oil pressure sensor is off so I need to look at the equation for that as I am pretty sure its not power engine oil pressure, but overall I am really pleased that this is almost sorted.

There are some bits I need to tie up with it as well as the calibration, this lot needs tidying up....

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This should be pretty simple as there is sensible lengths to play with, I will add the heat shrink connectors and I have also bought some loom tape to make sure any areas are nicely covered, then that will tuck up with the dash top and cage/dash bar as previous. I do still need to somehow find some 0.5a or 1a micro blade fuses
which seem pretty illusive.

The other thing is a little bit of information that you lovely people may be able to help with (as below):
I ideally need to know the Operating temps/pressures as they are now displayed digital on the dash (as shown above) rather than on a dotted gauge of the original 172 dash:

Oil temp idle - 80?
Oil temp hot - 115?
Oil pressure - 1bar/14psi (idle) / 3bar/44psi (3000rpm) ?
Coolant temp -
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
UPDATE:

Managed to get a little bit of time on the clio again today. Extremely happy with todays outcome as I feel this was a long journey to get here.
With the help of James Ashton (BigAsh) again I managed to get the calibration/set-up on the Dash2 right finally. I am now getting info/readings from all the correct sensors (as shown below):

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I have also got the information about operating normal/safe operating temps, this is useful as I am now aware you can set-up alarms on the Dash2, I will likely be be doing this for the oil and battery readings. Next up now all is working is to tidy up the wires finally, very much looking forward to that and having that done.

Next up is potentially figuring out why the wiper is being a d*ck...
Wheels are off for powdercoating next week so that will be another positive push too.

Its moving forward still, very slowly...
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
UPDATE:
Wheels were dropped off at City Powdercoaters last week and collected today. Very lucky that they are close by to me currently which makes it a no brainer, especially at the price they charge. Extremely happy with the finish too....

I went for Satin black to match the other items throughout the car that are not either green, yellow or carbon...
Balanced, valved and all wrapped back up in the R888R

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Very much looking forward to getting them back on the car. Prior to that though I want to do a couple of jobs.
- Fit new handbrake cables (already have these)
- Fit gold heat protective film to fuel tank (just ordered from Funk motorsport)
- Finish and fit brake ducts/deflectors

These are some jobs for the next few weeks I think
 

VenomUK

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172
UPDATE:
Wheels were dropped off at City Powdercoaters last week and collected today. Very lucky that they are close by to me currently which makes it a no brainer, especially at the price they charge. Extremely happy with the finish too....

I went for Satin black to match the other items throughout the car that are not either green, yellow or carbon...
Balanced, valved and all wrapped back up in the R888R

View attachment 1454816 View attachment 1454817

Very much looking forward to getting them back on the car. Prior to that though I want to do a couple of jobs.
- Fit new handbrake cables (already have these)
- Fit gold heat protective film to fuel tank (just ordered from Funk motorsport)
- Finish and fit brake ducts/deflectors

These are some jobs for the next few weeks I think
You can not go wrong with City Powdercoaters. Like you say, also handy for having other parts done such as control arms ect
 

VenomUK

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172
I did wonder if they did other items.... I would like to get some other things (not for the clio) sorted
Yeah I've seen bike frames there. Lower control arms. ARBs. You name it, if it can take an electric current through it and withstand the heat from curing then it can be powder coated. I was thinking of having the subframe and rear beam if the price was right.
 

td_dan

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio DCi
They did a 306 sub frame and a couple of Strut braces for me few years back before they had the new unit, cost was about £70
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
UPDATE:
With the dash comms pretty much sorted I needed to finalise the loom (the new items were only twisted together wires).

View attachment 1447628

I also needed to sort out where the bulkhead connector went into the bulkhead. Northampton Motorsport left this so I could sort the dash oil communications.

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I purchased some loom tape a few weeks back but was just looking for a bit of time to do it. The new additions were taped and along with the rest of the loom was organised and tucked up under the top dash.

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I had some Raychem bulkhead connector rubbers for the loom - connector, keeps it really nice and tidy and protected. The interior connector went really well but the engine bay side I heated too close to the connector and the rubber bunched up - I need to cut it off and replace, new rubber ordered....
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With that pretty much done all I had to do was finalise the dash calibration by adding some alarms, pretty useful for protecting the engine.

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Right... onto the next thing then...
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
Such a tidy and clean build! Making head way now 👍🏻

Cheers mate, it is coming along.

I did order a new heat shrink boot off of ebay, but I am pretty sure its a knock off jobby. It turned up with the inner lining flaking off quite badly so it is being returned straight away - jokers....

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Need to try and find another one (which seems easier said then done)
 

VenomUK

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172
Someone has handled that while saying in their head "its not going on my car" and off it went! What jokers!
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
It has a use by date? Does it have adhesive inside?

I believe it does yeah, when you heat shrink it I believe the adhesive helps it adhere to the surface you are putting it over.

Someone has handled that while saying in their head "its not going on my car" and off it went! What jokers!


His reply:
“Hello, It looks like some of the /225 pre coated adhesive is coming away. This is fairly standard with the product you have ordered. When the parts are made in the factory they are actually coated with 2 x the required powder coat to allow for this. Having over 25years experience in the harnessing industry I can say it will work and perform exactly as expected. However, if you would still like a refund then I’d be happy to do this. Please return the item in the bag it was supplied in and I will action this for you. Kind regards”

After spending silly amounts on this car and a lot of time and money sorting this loom I am not risking it on an £8 part
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
UPDATE:
A new heatshrink boot has been ordered from FCLane, it is Hellerman rather than Raychem but reading the specs it all sounds the same. FCLane were awesome too so I will certainly being using them again if needed, once that arrives it will be sorted asap.

Grabbing little bits of time to do jobs is how it is now, but how does foiling something take 2.5 hours?
I ordered the A3 gold foil heat protective sheet from Funk Motorsport a few weeks back and today set about applying it to the fuel tank where the exhaust passes it - this is the only place I think it is needed currently, (the fuel and brake lines are inside the car)

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The area is a bit of a weird shape with a dip in it and a fair bit of contouring. I had to clean up the tank with brake cleaner and then roughed the area slightly with some scotch pads. I then set about wrapping the dip first before making up a template and cutting it from the A3 sheet for the rest of the area.

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With the shape cutout I laid underneath the car for the majority of those 2.5hrs and applied the protective sheet with as little air pockets as possible, corners were cut to allow fanning and shaping around the contours - these were then covered with a second layer so the area was fully protected - pretty happy with the final result.

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Next job....
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
UPDATE:
Well I think I would have hoped to be getting more down whilst we are on lockdown but I am spending way more time with my son which is cool and I have been converting the cab area of our sprinter camper which is fun in a sadistic way.... I love wires/electrics....

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Onto clio jobs though as I have managed to finally complete something I have been working on for a very long time.
I have really wanted to get the brake ducts/deflectors sorted (as well as the new handbrake cables fitted) so I can drop the car back on the ground.

I spotted these a little while ago so using these as a reference I started to look at how I was going to make something up.

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I already had the trumpets and the ducting and I think I showed a little while back in the thread the carbon plates I made up for the fog light holes to take them down to the ducting diameter. I needed to work out a way to secure the trumpets/ducting.

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The ducting is wire structured plastic and when I tried jubilee clamping them down the ducting just kept pushing the trumpets out of the end, I needed to get a bit creative. I ended up plier squeezing the ducting down at the trumpet end so it was flat all the way around rather than ridged. I then had a brainwave when I was working on my bike - I could use some inner tube rubber around the trumpet end to get the ducting to grip...

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Jobs a good'un....
With that sorted I turned my attention to the deflector. I spent a good amount of time with my head in the wheelarch drawing up templates out of cardboard and duct tape, marking where the arch was behind it and where the potential mount points were.

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I used the wishbone to arch brace as a mount point and the I planned to riv-nut the front area and bolt through there also. I looked at the right angle (actual deflector) and measured out how far I could come towards the calliper. Happy with my template I moved this to the only material I had... CARBON

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Carbon is a bit pimping for this job but I do have it lying around in quite a few bits, its also nice and lightweight/thin so it does have a bit of flex (pretty useful in this area). All measurements were taken over to the carbon pieces and marked up for driver and passenger sides.

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These 2 pieces are held together by ally right angle cut and drilled to take rivets - all nice and light... and then painted satin black #becausetart
On the front you can see I have added a trim clip slightly lower than the front mount, this lets a zip-tie pass through it and will be used to secure the ducting at the arch end...

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Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
UPDATE:
With everything made up tonight and having riv-nutted the arches earlier in the week I fitted the deflectors and ducting this evening.
Pretty pleased with the result, I am also quite happy with how flexible it is, this should mean any big bumps and there is no further damage to anything - it is pretty close to the front edge of the tyre on full lock...

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Born out of putting the front wheel on to check clearance for the deflectors it appears I now need to order some new spacers...
I am thinking this must be because of the taller/stiffer sidewalls of these new tyres as I am sure there wasn't an issue when the car was being rolled around previously on the same wheels and 5mm spacers.

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I have 4 5mm spacers so this allowed me to work out spacing chucking an extra one in to figure out how far to go....
10mm seems to be about right on the front, but only just

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and only just on the wheel studs too.... (they use to be real long on the Image wheels)

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Once I have checked spacing on the rears I will get new hub-centric spacers ordered up for all around.
Hopefully I can get the handbrake cables done pretty sharpish and then get it back on the ground.
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
UPDATE:
Had a little bit of time today to get back out and check spacing on the rear wheels before I put in an order with Pure Motorsport.
Previously the car had 5mm each side on the rear but I was seeing if it could go out to 10mm each side.

On putting 10mm on I was surprised at how much more they seemed to poke....

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Suffice to say I will not be going 10mm each side as I am pretty sure they would not clear...
It was only when I was removing the wheel that I noticed some rubber/wear marks on the inside of the rear bumper, perhaps 5mm is even too much, I will check when I fully drop the car back on the ground.

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Overall I was quite surprised as I had been speaking to @Coops Mk1 about his set-up when he tried the Superleggeras on his phase 1 with 15mm spacing up front and 10mm rear, I couldn't figure out why it was so different but then I remembered I had camber and spacer shims on the rear hubs so there is about 3mm already..... It turns out I am also on 205's rather than his 195's so there are the answers....

10mm spacers order from Pure Motorsport, quite looking forward to getting this back on the ground again...
 

1985michael182

ClioSport Club Member
At last I've got to the end!! 😴😴

Wow is all I can say! W O W

Beautiful vehicle you have there and the patients of a saint to still be at it all these years later!! Hats off to you sir brilliant build. Love the minimalistic look and the false floor with all the electronics on it.
Do you have a fire extinguisher? Not seen it?

So this wiring loom you bought, best thing you could have done with it was get rid and start again to match your setup. I do not believe you have saved any money what so ever by buying one done. You basically have 8 pages that I've read of wiring problems and issues electrically.

Northampton Motorsport raped your wallet fault finding, the typhoon ECU was basically a paper weight.
If you had bought a complete kit like @pule333 did and built it yourself I bet you would have saved money, built it with your meticulous attention to detail and it would have all worked first time leading to mapping straight away and a lot less headaches and stresses.

I would be interested to see if you would get better mapping results at EFI??
The fact that Northampton Motorsport didnt "realise" configuration needed to be done with the dash2 to talk to everything says to me they arent that clued up?? I've learn a bit from you setting up the dash2 though as I didnt realise it was so in depth requiring formulas, gearing, fuelling all that stuff.

Couple of things I tried to note as i went along...
Tyres, please dont jump straight to slicks i would hate to see this in the barrier first time out I would cry for you.

205 are too big in width and height.

Learn the car again first, its lighter faster and will change direction quicker. You can play with you suspension setup to find you best grip for your driving style and when you start pushing the limits of the tyres that's the time to move up to something sticky. Also your brake bias will need playing with.

Spring rates is always a tricky one, especially now yours is so light. I have got 550lbs up front and planning 450lbs on the rears. Think springs are £22 cheap as chips. Just need the right balance.

Do you think the inlet gives you any advantage torque/bhp wise? Reason why I ask is mine is on standard cams with GroupN timing, 48mm Jenveys, 182 mani. I'm getting 170lbs and 197bhp (think the wrong exhaust gasket restricted me and would have been higher)
so your cams are technically giving 10bhp more than mine but you are down on torque running 428's???

(Side not @NorthloopCup Can standard cams be timed to 16° and disconnect/remove the wiring for the vvt? So vvt all the time?)

You had a mare with those hinges! 😂
Firstly you must have test fitted the door prior to paint? Secondly which clown welded the rods to the hinge shims and thirdly who ever welded them the second time hopefully does weld for a living ! Haha shocking.

Spacers, dont go too wide as it will ruin your scrub radius as Mark will tell you.

Overall you should be very proud of yourself and what you have achieved its spot on.
It's a Yes from me, you are through to the next round 👏

Hope to see you on track this year when this shite lockdown f***s off. Need to get a load of us together for a play.

P.s. congrats on the little one both you and Neil a. What did you call him?
 

Nafoff

ClioSport Club Member
Thank you for the kind words mate, much appreciated. You mention about patience - yet you only read from page 99, far more happened before that but it was along similar lines... for some reason I kept my foot in. To answer some of your comments below:

Do you have a fire extinguisher? Not seen it?

I don't have a fire extinguisher at the moment no, it is something I am planning, I need to sort out all the niggles first and will then look at improving and adding bits.

So this wiring loom you bought, best thing you could have done with it was get rid and start again to match your setup. I do not believe you have saved any money what so ever by buying one done. You basically have 8 pages that I've read of wiring problems and issues electrically.

I have to disagree with you slightly on that. I literally have no clue when it comes to wiring and personally no desire to try and build a loom. BigAsh who I bought the loom from is meticulous with attention to detail so I am surprised if this was an error on his part. It could of been an issue when it was removed from his car, or possibly when I had it in storage for a time.. With regards to the wiring and the dash perhaps what I should of done is buy BigAsh's full electronic set-up, so Dash2, data logger etc... that would have potentially solved a fair few further issues - but it is/was all money (I paid him in installments)... I did what I thought was right at the time.

Northampton Motorsport raped your wallet fault finding, the typhoon ECU was basically a paper weight. If you had bought a complete kit like @pule333 did and built it yourself I bet you would have saved money, built it with your meticulous attention to detail and it would have all worked first time leading to mapping straight away and a lot less headaches and stresses.

Yep, Northampton Motorsport was expensive, tbh they didn't do much with the new ECU before it got sent to Specialist components and was tested, as for the rest of the electronics as I mentioned above, I wouldn't be so sure on building a loom myself.

I would be interested to see if you would get better mapping results at EFI??
The fact that Northampton Motorsport didnt "realise" configuration needed to be done with the dash2 to talk to everything says to me they arent that clued up?? I've learn a bit from you setting up the dash2 though as I didnt realise it was so in depth requiring formulas, gearing, fuelling all that stuff.

All mappers seem to get different results, I was pretty happy with the results and had heard good things about Troy at Northampton Motorsport. I knew Tony Hunter had been there with pretty much the same spec and had his car mapped, knowing Tony I knew he wouldn't settle for sh*t Northampton Motorsport worked for me practically as well (moving from MK to Birmingham), they also stored the car for a fair old while whilst it was being worked on/I was moving.

Couple of things I tried to note as i went along... Tyres, please dont jump straight to slicks i would hate to see this in the barrier first time out I would cry for you. 205 are too big in width and height.

For sure I won't be going to slicks for a while, I will be learning the car for quite a while first before I start looking at second sets of tyres slicks etc.
As for the 205's they do seem quite wide/high but I will see how I get on first and then look at changing them out.

Learn the car again first, its lighter faster and will change direction quicker. You can play with you suspension setup to find you best grip for your driving style and when you start pushing the limits of the tyres that's the time to move up to something sticky. Also your brake bias will need playing with. Spring rates is always a tricky one, especially now yours is so light. I have got 550lbs up front and planning 450lbs on the rears. Think springs are £22 cheap as chips. Just need the right balance.

For sure everything needs to be learnt/bedded in for quite a while, it is a completely different car. TBH I am hoping that will make it all super exciting for me and keep the feeling fresh for quite a while. With regards to suspension, I may look at spring changes but in all honesty I am unsure if these FK's are up to the job anyway - let alone being on the car so long. A good friend of mine works for AST and when I relocate there (hopefully later this year) I will potentially be looking at upgrading to full coilovers all around.

Do you think the inlet gives you any advantage torque/bhp wise? Reason why I ask is mine is on standard cams with GroupN timing, 48mm Jenveys, 182 mani. I'm getting 170lbs and 197bhp (think the wrong exhaust gasket restricted me and would have been higher) so your cams are technically giving 10bhp more than mine but you are down on torque running 428's???

I am unsure on the inlet tbh, when I drove the car around Europe with friends it felt pretty poor torque wise tbh and my mates cammed ph1 easily pulled away, BUT that could have been down to the map, who knows... the inlet may just be a pretty piece of metal, but until I drive it again now and see how it feels I will be keeping it - otherwise it is an expensive piece of scrap. As for the cams, when I originally fitted the cams it was either 428's or 421's and the most used were 428's. Now people are experimenting a lot more with cams and I believe the 421's are much preferred.

You had a mare with those hinges! 😂 Firstly you must have test fitted the door prior to paint? Secondly which clown welded the rods to the hinge shims and thirdly who ever welded them the second time hopefully does weld for a living ! Haha shocking.

We did test fit the doors yep and all was fine, all the movement, lifting them on/off etc after that must have shown how weak they were... lesson learnt.
I have learnt a lot of lessons building this....

Overall you should be very proud of yourself and what you have achieved its spot on.
It's a Yes from me, you are through to the next round 👏

Thank you mate, that is very kind to say. Chris from BEANIESPORT who is a good mate said to me (and I quite like this quote)
"This is the best garage build by someone who doesn't have a clue I have ever seen" - I do feel this is kind of true, I really don't believe/trust in myself with this stuff.

Hope to see you on track this year when this shite lockdown f***s off. Need to get a load of us together for a play.

That would be pretty cool wouldn't it, I need to learn the car first though... ha,

P.s. congrats on the little one both you and Neil a. What did you call him?

Cheers man, it certainly does limit your time on the car. His name is Seb (Sebastian, but not after Vettel). Hopefully take him to some trackdays/hillclimbs one day
 


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