The great tuning debate

[MarkM]

I seem to read alot of posts on cliosport about what a waste of money tuning the engine is and how spending 3k - 6k is pointless as people who have had work done find there cars are only slightly quicker then standard.

If you compare figures for standard and tuned cars though you get quite large gains in performance.

First column is a standard 182 2nd is for one with say 3.5k engine and then for a 6k engine with some weight loss. Then for a comparison the last column is for a 911 GT3

Power (BHP) : 180--- 205--- 230--- 381
Weight (KG) : 1090--- 1090--- 1000--- 1455
(BHP Per Ton) : 167.79--- 191.09--- 233.69--- 266.06
0 - 60 (Secs) : 6.53--- 5.89--- 5.15--- 4.42
0 - 100 (Secs) : 16.99--- 14.7--- 12.43--- 9.9

If you take the 182 as far as it can go it is 4.5secs faster then standard to 100 which may not seem alot but it is the same difference as a 911GT3 is to the mild tuned 182, also the rear wheel drive GT3 only gets to 60 0.5 a second faster then the clio.

So based on these figures tuning a 172/182 would seem worth while?

 

[Andy_J]

too much time on your hands....

think about it, the engine and wiring is still french! go for a porka!!

 

[MarkM]

too much time on your hands....

think about it, the engine and wiring is still french! go for a porka!!

lunchtime

you cant buy a porka for 6k

 

[lusty v-tec]

Yep think about it, a turbo charged 182 up to about 310 bhp, would only be slightly slower than a 911 turbo (prob 1 second to 60). So for say 20k you could get a very good 182, turbo it, sort brakes, suspension etc and would end up with a car that is unusual and almost as fast as a 911 turbo.

If I had 20k to spend on a really fast car thats what id do rather than buy a focus ST for example (which would be much slower of course)

 

[2 live]

lol.so whos 182 has done the 1/4 in 12 secs or v low 13s??

 

[Andy_J]

too much time on your hands....

think about it, the engine and wiring is still french! go for a porka!!

lunchtime

you cant buy a porka for 6k

but if you sell your clio you'll almost be there!

 

[Fred@BTM]

Yep think about it, a turbo charged 182 up to about 310 bhp, would only be slightly slower than a 911 turbo

until you got to a corner, bye bye clio as Porsche disapears into the distance

 

[MarkM]

lol.so whos 182 has done the 1/4 in 12 secs or v low 13s??

who has a 230bhp 182

 

[fmp_]

i have so much to say on the subject of pound per bhp increase, but to be honest i dont have the time to type it all out.

i think those that know that tuning, no matter how costly is worth it, and those that think its a waste will always think that. no point in trying to convince people otherwise.

People always say why spend when ou can buy X,Y,Z car thats quicker. but usually car X,Y,Z is totally different to the clio, ie not a small french hot hatch.

I love my clio, have spent alot on it already (mainly development cost) and will be continuing to spend on it in the future. Making it perform better. And knowing that when i skin the rear end of Mr. Buy-something-quicker in his scooby i will have the feel good factor!

 

[MarkM]

i have so much to say on the subject of pound per bhp increase, but to be honest i dont have the time to type it all out.

i think those that know that tuning, no matter how costly is worth it, and those that think its a waste will always think that. no point in trying to convince people otherwise.

People always say why spend when ou can buy X,Y,Z car thats quicker. but usually car X,Y,Z is totally different to the clio, ie not a small french hot hatch.

I love my clio, have spent alot on it already (mainly development cost) and will be continuing to spend on it in the future. Making it perform better. And knowing that when i skin the rear end of Mr. Buy-something-quicker in his scooby i will have the feel good factor!

I think I agree with most of that.

My dilemma is that my car is halfway there and for another 3k ish I can get throttle bodies. I have been toying with the idea of getting a caterham but the clio is an all weather car with far better safety. I know the caterham will be more fun etc. etc. but I have gone so far with my clio it seems a shame not to fit throttle bodies and strip the interior out.

 

[fmp_]

deffo.

i am on the look out for a 172/182 engine that i can build up over the next 6months or so with throttle bodies.

its all about enjoyment. i pressume you enjoy driving your car in its current state? well surely with more power, and less weight the fun factor will go through the roof!!! (on a side note, i can do you a good price on Cobra seats if you do decide to strip it out!)

 

[MarkM]

deffo.

i am on the look out for a 172/182 engine that i can build up over the next 6months or so with throttle bodies.

its all about enjoyment. i pressume you enjoy driving your car in its current state? well surely with more power, and less weight the fun factor will go through the roof!!! (on a side note, i can do you a good price on Cobra seats if you do decide to strip it out!)

I already have a cobra suzuka so yes another one would be a good idea if I strip it, then again maybe I will just have one seat to save weight

 

[ben_p]

i disagree,

the clio isnt great at anything its good at a few things.

would i buy a 12k clio and spend 5k-10k making it go a little quicker and stop a little faster and go round bends better?

or would i just get on with it? and wait until i can get a stock faster car, which has for example 4wheel drive, turbo, more power, better biult, better dealers, an al round better car to start with. now the "better" car will cost more but it does more without f**king about with it,


plus at the end of f**king about with the tin pot.. am i really going to make any money on it over the going rate when i sell up? whos going to want to take on a high performance engine/ car and want to maintain it ?

 

[ben_p]

look at matt blacks TT. couldnt sell it.. had to brake it propberly got 3k back for what cost 10k,15k? to biuld. "had loads of fun when it worked" nothing like giving 10k away

if you want a nice exhaust note, lower the ride hight, etc etc.. then as long as you dont go mad then things can be put back and you can atleast try and make a few quid back

 

[MATT BLACK]

i disagree,

the clio isnt great at anything its good at a few things.

would i buy a 12k clio and spend 5k-10k making it go a little quicker and stop a little faster and go round bends better?

or would i just get on with it? and wait until i can get a stock faster car, which has for example 4wheel drive, turbo, more power, better biult, better dealers, an al round better car to start with. now the "better" car will cost more but it does more without f**king about with it,


plus at the end of f**king about with the tin pot.. am i really going to make any money on it over the going rate when i sell up? whos going to want to take on a high performance engine/ car and want to maintain it ?

Those are the words of an Halfords Junkie ben - 99% of the people on here are complete fukwits and dont have the ability to tune a car - they can talk brake pads and vented discs and a bit of oulton park and "The ring" talk but dont know there arse from there head.

Ben my little friend - theres nothing like building a machine from scratch that has the power to wipe out a £60,000 supercar up to 150mph

could have got more than £3500 for it but i just wanted shut - the car gained a lot of followers and through this has generated me lots of money through my business which has payed off in the long run

 

[fmp_]

thats the different between some people. when i tune/modify, the last thing that comes into my mind is value come the time to sell up (tho i usually keep my cars a fair while).

i do what i want, whats good for me at the time.

and you proved my point about the buy a 'better' car. what if i dont want a 4wd drive turbo car? instantly comes to mind is the usually progression of upgrade to a scooby. unless you are spending big bucks and hitting spec C stuff your not getting a car much quicker than the clio. certanly not on the twisties.

its each to thier own really. and we could all argue it till were blue in the face!

 

[Iain C]

the clio is still a fwd hatch even after youve spent 6k on making it quicker.
I stopped messing with my car after the coilovers and zaust and with the 3k i could have spent giving me a few extra hp brought an rx7 that starts off with 250 bhp and is a proper rwd.
I could tune the 7 more cheeply but tbh i cant be bothered cos i still cant drive for sh1t.

 

[ben_p]

the clio is still a fwd hatch even after youve spent 6k on making it quicker.
I stopped messing with my car after the coilovers and zaust and with the 3k i could have spent giving me a few extra hp brought an rx7 that starts off with 250 bhp and is a proper rwd.
I could tune the 7 more cheeply but tbh i cant be bothered cos i still cant drive for sh1t.

agree.. a clio is still a clio even after spending 4 k on it

 

[fmp_]

you say it like its a bad thing!

 

[ben_p]

its not a great thing

 

[MarkM]

I have driven a subuaru STi on a track and it did nothing for me it felt like I was driving a bus compared to the clio. I dont like the jap turbo image its a bit chav IMO.

I dont doubt the power potential and I could have bought a nice EVO for what my clio has cost but jap cars have never interested me.

 

[2 live]

lol.so whos 182 has done the 1/4 in 12 secs or v low 13s??

who has a 230bhp 182

theres a few.172s tho,...but no matter, same shell, tuned to 230 ish.


jesus, yozza etc.

still dont see no 12 sec 1/4s


nowt wrong wi tuning. imo. if its done right. of course evryone has their own opinion on whats right..but for me its gotta be the all round package.not just straight lines.not just corners...has to be good at evrything


which is why i own a williams


for a few hundred quid....u can build a mini that will take the piss outta porkas etc....u have ur own weapon of choice....some choose clios.some choose minis....some fiats etc etc ..all have one thing in common...they all upset mr' just buy a faster standard car' when they blow em into the weeds lol.


so wen will mr ' buy a faster standard car' buy a veyron etc wen they cant beat the x powered y ?? lol

 

[ben_p]

if i bought a 182 and put it against one of the tuned 182's would i notice 8ks worth of difference? really? would you be any better off than the stock 182 at the end of it? would you have a little more fun and be thankful that you have spent your 8k

 

[matt25172]

yeah the thing with having a fast car to start with is everyone no's its a fast car! i had a scooby type r which i spent a couple of grand on but not many people raced it, and it got boring, i got a 172 now and love it yeah its slower but still loads of fun and im looking at spending a few grand on it now, will be gd to take people by suppirise!!!! yeah maybe it woulnt sound like the scooby but im sure im gonna have just as much fun if not more.

 

[Dan@SJM]

deffo.

i am on the look out for a 172/182 engine that i can build up over the next 6months or so with throttle bodies.

its all about enjoyment. i pressume you enjoy driving your car in its current state? well surely with more power, and less weight the fun factor will go through the roof!!! (on a side note, i can do you a good price on Cobra seats if you do decide to strip it out!)

How much u offering

 

[MarkM]

if i bought a 182 and put it against one of the tuned 182's would i notice 8ks worth of difference? really? would you be any better off than the stock 182 at the end of it? would you have a little more fun and be thankful that you have spent your 8k

that was really the point of the thread.

the standard 182 would be 4.5secs behind to 100 and you would have a car that could get there in mid 12s. There cant be many cars that would be as quick standard.

If you dont care about going a little bit faster then why not buy a more sensible car in the first place. If you have 8k to spend on your car then why not.

 

[ben_p]

if i bought a 182 and put it against one of the tuned 182's would i notice 8ks worth of difference? really? would you be any better off than the stock 182 at the end of it? would you have a little more fun and be thankful that you have spent your 8k

that was really the point of the thread.

the standard 182 would be 4.5secs behind to 100 and you would have a car that could get there in mid 12s. There cant be many cars that would be as quick standard.

If you dont care about going a little bit faster then why not buy a more sensible car in the first place. If you have 8k to spend on your car then why not.

the point of the thread was "is tuning worth it?"

i wouldnt spend 8k on a clio. there is just no logic imo..id put the money into somthing to make more money. but thats just me.

theres m3's knocking about for 18k..

12-14k for a 182 + your 8k.= 21-22k on a clio .... no thanks

 

[edde]

i think those that know that tuning, no matter how costly is worth it, and those that think its a waste will always think that. no point in trying to convince people otherwise.

People always say why spend when ou can buy X,Y,Z car thats quicker. but usually car X,Y,Z is totally different to the clio, ie not a small french hot hatch.

I love my clio, have spent alot on it already (mainly development cost) and will be continuing to spend on it in the future. Making it perform better. And knowing that when i skin the rear end of Mr. Buy-something-quicker in his scooby i will have the feel good factor!

I see what your saying but I remain in both sides of opinion for example tunning a 1.2 isn't worth it stick a 172 engine in but thats nowt worth it get a 172 is easier and cheaper. Then tunning the 172/182 engine isn't huge gains for the money realy if Renault had produced a camed up throttle bodied 230hp N/A engined Clio at the same time as the 182 as a bigger brother to it as such would you still tinker with your car? I realise your a tunner as such and tunning costs are much lower and good for business and development tunning but would you have ever recomended a normla paying punter to buy the 182 and tunning to xxx rarther than the 230 N/A version I mentioned earlier?
Its great tunning individuality etc but you never get back what you pay so its not worth it unless you realy have the money your willing to throw away as such IMO.

 

[ben_p]

i think those that know that tuning, no matter how costly is worth it, and those that think its a waste will always think that. no point in trying to convince people otherwise.

People always say why spend when ou can buy X,Y,Z car thats quicker. but usually car X,Y,Z is totally different to the clio, ie not a small french hot hatch.

I love my clio, have spent alot on it already (mainly development cost) and will be continuing to spend on it in the future. Making it perform better. And knowing that when i skin the rear end of Mr. Buy-something-quicker in his scooby i will have the feel good factor!

I see what your saying but I remain in both sides of opinion for example tunning a 1.2 isn't worth it stick a 172 engine in but thats nowt worth it get a 172 is easier and cheaper. Then tunning the 172/182 engine isn't huge gains for the money realy if Renault had produced a camed up throttle bodied 230hp N/A engined Clio at the same time as the 182 as a bigger brother to it as such would you still tinker with your car? I realise your a tunner as such and tunning costs are much lower and good for business and development tunning but would you have ever recomended a normla paying punter to buy the 182 and tunning to xxx rarther than the 230 N/A version I mentioned earlier?
Its great tunning individuality etc but you never get back what you pay so its not worth it unless you realy have the money your willing to throw away as such IMO.

agree with that

 

[leighk18]

at the end of the why tune a car at all if your worried about getting your money back when you sell?, A car is what you make it i plain to turn my 1.2 clio in a 1.4 gt clio (r5 engine) and ya i no when it comes to sell i will lose a lot of money etc and if i wanted somthink quicker i could go buy somthink quicker but i just want to do somthink which i think would be cool i aint worried about losing the money on it if i was going to lose to much id just keep as a track car. if people want to go our and buy a faster car then go and do it and dont moan at people for spending there money on what they think ya there car mite not be the fastest thing on the road but some people dont want that other people do its all down to ya own choice why do young lads spend ££££ on there 1.2 corsa bec they want to lol you all say its stupid when you see them but thats what they choose lol if they can afford a 500 body kit 1000 spray job etc im sur they could get a quicker car if they want lol any way rant over just dont see whay people moan bout tunning

also i would of loved to off seen matt tt clio the hole idea of that car i loved wish could of seen it go any one any videos bet it was nippy lol

ps ya i dislxic why if anythink spelt wrong and i dont use full stops etc as dont really no were put um im thick lol

 

[ben_p]

at the end of the why tune a car at all if your worried about getting your money back when you sell?, A car is what you make it i plain to turn my 1.2 clio in a 1.4 gt clio (r5 engine) and ya i no when it comes to sell i will lose a lot of money etc and if i wanted somthink quicker i could go buy somthink quicker but i just want to do somthink which i think would be cool i aint worried about losing the money on it if i was going to lose to much id just keep as a track car. if people want to go our and buy a faster car then go and do it and dont moan at people for spending there money on what they think ya there car mite not be the fastest thing on the road but some people dont want that other people do its all down to ya own choice why do young lads spend ££££ on there 1.2 corsa bec they want to lol you all say its stupid when you see them but thats what they choose lol if they can afford a 500 body kit 1000 spray job etc im sur they could get a quicker car if they want lol any way rant over just dont see whay people moan bout tunning

also i would of loved to off seen matt tt clio the hole idea of that car i loved wish could of seen it go any one any videos bet it was nippy lol

ps ya i dislxic why if anythink spelt wrong and i dont use full stops etc as dont really no were put um im thick lol

like ed siad.. on a 1.2 you can spend 1.5 k on a 172 engine and get 100bhp then your having fun... spend 1500 on a 172/182 and you will get a lumpy idle lol

 

[MarkM]

the point of the thread was "is tuning worth it?"

i wouldnt spend 8k on a clio. there is just no logic imo..id put the money into somthing to make more money. but thats just me.

theres m3's knocking about for 18k..

12-14k for a 182 + your 8k.= 21-22k on a clio .... no thanks

You would put the money into something that would make money? What like stocks and shares or a house?

I already own a house and the 8k is disposable income. At the end of the day I dont think there is a right or wrong answer it depends on the individual.

I wouldnt consider jap turbo or exec saloon to replace my clio. The only possible other option would be a Caterham/Westfield but I would be looking at 10k+ to get something half decent.

Then again why would I want a kit car made out of fibreglass when I could have any number of far 'better' cars

 

[ben_p]

im in the same boat. already own a few propertys. have the spare cash but like you said it depends on the indivual.. but i could proberly think of better things to spend the spare 8k on

 

[Ali]

Yep think about it, a turbo charged 182 up to about 310 bhp, would only be slightly slower than a 911 turbo

PMSL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have a word.

 

[Gaz_]

drugs?

i'd love an ITB clio, love to do it to the cup, as i think it deserves it. What really worries me is the day to day use, i want to just turn the key and go..... do you still get that with itbs? You hear lots of stories on here about people who seem to get the work done, then sell up.... why? I dont want it jerky round town, i want it to be as drivable as it is now, and no nagging worries that its gonna break etc

 

[Fred@BTM]

yoz's cup is now his everyday car, mad b*****d

 

[Batman]

i want tb;s ill get them eventually yea!

 

[Ali]

I would never TB a clio...I wouldn't even change the ECU! Pointless chit chat is tuning clio's wish i'd never bothered!

Vee soon!

 

[MarkCup]

Another option would be to spend the money on trackdays and driver training.

I think that would give you more laptime gains in a standard car, than an extra 50 bhp ever would. Plus, you keep the "skills" for life.

Wouldn't it?

 

[Gaz_]

I would never TB a clio...I wouldn't even change the ECU! Pointless chit chat is tuning clio's wish i'd never bothered!

Vee soon!

but again, the flip side would be to see your face as my ITB cup fly past





















by all accouts its close anyway :rasp: