The great tuning debate

[ben_p]

the point of the thread was "is tuning worth it?"

i wouldnt spend 8k on a clio. there is just no logic imo..id put the money into somthing to make more money. but thats just me.

theres m3's knocking about for 18k..

12-14k for a 182 + your 8k.= 21-22k on a clio .... no thanks

Ben, your arguement is flawed and all over the place, make you mind up, as your using car examples that are proving your arguement the other way

M3 being the case in point. £18k for a high miler, yet I bought my Clio for f**k all in comparison and i've pulled a good couple of cars on one 2 up I might add from 40-140mph... so imo that's money well spent. I could get a Scooby with similar power output on the road, but it would cost loads more and wouldn't surprise the owner as much.

If tuning cars is pointless then you may as well argue that buying a faster car also is, as the relative performance wont be that much more than the previous car you have just upgraded from... so what's the point spending even more? you can argue a case for and against both, at the end of the day it comes down to personal choice.

sorry?

ok maybe its just me but spending 8k on clio to have it on the ramps once a week to have a unstable extra 30-40hp is beyond me.

its not just about stright line speed. theres lots of other things that come along with it.

you own a modified car so you are not going to sit there and agree. when you sell up and move on you mite one day agree

 

[damon]

Not sure how valid your point is though jesus because the majority of the cost was paid for by chris wasnt it? Doing all of the tuning yourself would have cost a great deal more than you have paid and perhaps you wouldnt have taken that route? How much did you pick up the car for out of interest?

Although there is alot of pleasure to be had in tuning cars, I prefer to opt for one thats already had alot of ground work done so that it reduces the cost/loss.

 

[TheJesus]

Damon, without wanting to sound rude the cost is no-one's business, but I think it's safe to say that I can go out now and buy a 172 of the same age for £4k and then spend a further £4k to get it to the same spec, so let's call it £8-10k for a car that goes quicker than an E46 M3 and doesn't cost over £20k for a used example, let alone a brand new one. Had I not spent over £12k on my Williams in repairs and mods I'd have just ITB'd that and it would have been even faster. As it was far from reliable this wasn't a viable option.

Benm, clearly you have a lack of understanding of tuned Clio's, as they only suffer the same faults as any other Clio, I've had no build related issues from the TB's with the car.
And of course it's all about speed! Why the hell else would people spend money on their engines you numpty? lol. I've had standard cars in the past and I prefer modified ones, I can see the arguement for and against, but my personal preference is to modify the car I own providing it's a good base to start with and the Clio ticks all the right boxes. You could argue why buy an M3 for £18k when you can buy a pulsar that's faster for pense, or you can buy an older 7 series for a fraction of the cost with more extras, more room, comfier etc etc... it's a never ending debate and boils down to what you want. I want a Clio that's fast, when I get bored I'll look at E39 M5's and keep it standard, doesn't mean to say I wont modify another car if I want more speed.

 

[ben_p]

we can discuss in depth later

 

[Andyman]

Is spending 100 notes on a night out only to piss it out the other end worth it and good value for money?

 

[stan*]

depends on the quantity of narcotics you can insuffilate using that £100.

 

[Ad]

There are M3s out there for 16k, and thats not just high milers.. bargins to be had if you put the effort in.

The scoob is lightly modded, would I have spent the kinda cash its had spend on it, if it was my own £££, not a chance. He could have had a TVR for the kind money thats been ploughed into it.

 

[stan*]

But why would you want a TVR?? again...status, cos there sure as hell isnt a whole lot else going for them.

I dont get it when someone says that sort of thing..."oh, but you could have such and such instead".

So?

That would have just had money splashed on it in the end...then what?? "you could have bought a Euro-fighter for that". lol

 

[Dash]

Are we forgeting some people might not want a big M3 or a Scooby saloon car however cheap or fast they may be? A wee Clio hatchback is just right for a lot of people.

 

[stoddie]

my car is now running about 203 brake.....

however, given the chance i would take the car back as normal and keep the money. Think just one day i got power hungry and obviously had more money than sense.

the gains are slightly noticeable, maybe more noticeable if i removed the sat nav/dvd player and all the other gubbings that slow it down. However on todays roads there are so many bloody speed cameras whats the point in driving about in a pocket rocket?

 

[Dash]

my car is now running about 203 brake.....


the gains are slightly noticeable,

30-35bhp more that standard and it's on slightly noticable? Got used to the massive power increase already?

 

[Gaz_]

Ben, clearly you have a lack of understanding of tuned Clio's,

fpmsl!!!!

that must be quote of the year

anybody else get tired of thejesus's costant arguing, and how he is always right?

keyboard warrior............ :quiet:

 

[stoddie]

my car is now running about 203 brake.....


the gains are slightly noticeable,

30-35bhp more that standard and it's on slightly noticable? Got used to the massive power increase already?

must of done mate!

 

[Ali]

Ben, clearly you have a lack of understanding of tuned Clio's,

fpmsl!!!!

that must be quote of the year

anybody else get tired of thejesus's costant arguing, and how he is always right?

keyboard warrior............ :quiet:

12k on a williams defies his stupidity! John, behave you've bought a TB's car, (You didn't tune it) and why did you get it so cheap...Because no one wants the hassle of owning one.

Give me a Std E46 anyday! +4k in mods and we'll discuss this again!

 

[Ali]

30-35bhp more that standard and it's on slightly noticable? Got used to the massive power increase already?

must of done mate!

China if you strip your car you might even beat the pink bus next time! Don't let me go behind you again..."That brake fade was a bit disconcerting!"

 

[stoddie]

must of done mate!

China if you strip your car you might even beat the pink bus next time! Don't let me go behind you again..."That brake fade was a bit disconcerting!"

i know! i wondered why the hell you weren't slowing down!

luckily the road was wide enough or that would of been 2 busses written off big time.....

 

[haitch]

meaty thread Mark, for me its already been said, some smoke & piss it up the wall, whatever puts a smile on your face, the fun factor. when i started tuning my 172 there didnt seem to be many options, i spent a lot on it only for some idiot to write it off, but when i took it to goodwood i had no regrets spending what i did, and i didnt have 'lumpy idle'. i see a waste of money on the clio as in having that shiny engine cover, the colour coded engine bay or the 2 days spent being a clay bar fairy. ive not long bought an older clio, with a not so old engine, ive spent a couple of grand on it already. if i did it all over id probably get a 172 mk1 & stick in the vag. a friend has a modded import scoob and is thinking of getting rid as nobody wants to 'have a go', the 1.2 on the other hand is very popular & the grin factor is massive.

 

[FlamingMonkey]

Runny Turds

 

[Inferno]

Modifying a car doesn't mean it has to be unreliable. I've seen older Fiesta's converted to rwd and running cosworth engines - leave the engine relatively standard and gain a load more power. I had a 4.2 V8 stuck into my old 2.8 Capri, ended up as a very rapid machine and much more reliable than than it was with the old lump. You can put a CTR engine in the back of a saxo now for around £8k-10k, again mighty fast for the money with no reliability problems.

IMO spending £6k on a Clio 172/182 engine may be stretching the limits a bit too far and will more than likely be problematic at some point (but still probably less to maintain than a prestige high performance standard car with similar performance). Spend a bit more, be more inventive and you can have a real sleeper with some serious go with none of the reliability issues.

 

[ja.jack]

That Jesus guy is an entertaining fellow. If you went out for a beer with him you'd probably spend a night in the cells.

 

[dannyb]

I had a 4.2 V8 stuck into my old 2.8 Capri, ended up as a very rapid machine and much more reliable than than it was with the old lump.

mental my 2.8 special had magnex zorsts , cams and headwork and scared the s*it out of me as my first venture into rwd, miss it though

 

[2 live]

That Jesus guy is an entertaining fellow. If you went out for a beer with him you'd probably spend a night in the cells.

its the turnin water into wine thing that freaks me out evry time lol

 

[fizzy_drink]

There's a lot of talk about tuning the engine.

What about weight? Gearing?

If I were keeping the 182, I'd:

1) Get 15" superleggs (or equally lightweight wheels).
2) Drop the rolling radius Via using 205/45/15 tyres.
3) Swap the gearbox for a 172 box (shorter gearing)

So, already there's a little gearing-edge to the car, for relatively little outlay.

Next, lose weight (which includes 1 above):

4) Strip the interior (including carpets & door cards & airbags)
5) Lightweight bucket seat (yes, just one)
6) Carbon-fibre replacement parts (as long as they're reasonably-priced).
7) Perspex windows
8) Lighter exhaust system (reasonably priced)
9) A/C out & electric window internals out!

That's a few Kg off.


Engine (which includes 8 above):

9) Manifold match
10) Panel filter



Can anyone price that up for me? It's got to be good VFM?

 

[ja.jack]

Don't know why no ones commented on this?

''99% of people on here are complete fukwits''

MATT, Most members don't have the inclination/knowledge to build a death trap motor like you did. It's not rocket science after all. So don't you be feeling smug and superior.

Your comment just reinforces a long held belief that tuners hold their customers in contempt.

 

[Ad]

But why would you want a TVR?? again...status, cos there sure as hell isnt a whole lot else going for them.

I dont get it when someone says that sort of thing..."oh, but you could have such and such instead".

So?

That would have just had money splashed on it in the end...then what?? "you could have bought a Euro-fighter for that". lol

easy explanation... it is more car for the same expenditure... Why not start of with a 1.0l micra and start modding, no point spend 10k on a 182 then is there??? on your theory????

secondly mods dont raise value signifcantly... I paid the money for the RB5 because it was best looked after example, not because of the extras.

The Guys has spent 6-8k on it, cover 30k in 3.5yrs and has combine with some depreciation thats quite some money....

I

 

[edde]

Modifying a car doesn't mean it has to be unreliable. I've seen older Fiesta's converted to rwd and running cosworth engines - leave the engine relatively standard and gain a load more power. I had a 4.2 V8 stuck into my old 2.8 Capri, ended up as a very rapid machine and much more reliable than than it was with the old lump. You can put a CTR engine in the back of a saxo now for around £8k-10k, again mighty fast for the money with no reliability problems.

The cars your mentioning both are with different engine were on about tunning the stock ones.

3) Swap the gearbox for a 172 box (shorter gearing)
6) Carbon-fibre replacement parts (as long as they're reasonably-priced).
7) Perspex windows
8) Lighter exhaust system (reasonably priced)
9) A/C out & electric window internals out!
9) Manifold match
10) Panel filter

Forget to say the gearbox swop isn't worth it time wise realy get the box for when yours were to go and then do it otherwsie leve it for the minimal gains realy

Forget carbon fiber its only adding weight.

Perspex windows is good dump the winders on the passenger side as well.

Dump the alarm to save weight if you want.

Loads of extra wiring to strip out if you wanted. rear wiper for starters plus its piping etc.

You could dump the coolent pump as well if you want run an electric one stop the PAS sapping the power dump the PAS as well to save weight etc either manal rack or electric from a normal car.

Don't know why no ones commented on this?

''99% of people on here are complete fukwits''

MATT, Most members don't have the inclination/knowledge to build a death trap motor like you did. It's not rocket science after all. So don't you be feeling smug and superior.

Your comment just reinforces a long held belief that tuners hold their customers in contempt.

Matts wan't a death trap if he's have sorted the dirveshafts he's still alive so it wasn't that bad. I've seen much worst on normal cars.

Matts not a tunner business though what he does is for himself so he has no tunner clients.

 

[ja.jack]

Hear what you're saying edde, but does'nt give him the right to look down on the guys with clean finger nails.

 

[edde]

Hear what you're saying edde, but does'nt give him the right to look down on the guys with clean finger nails.

Thats his opinion Matt speaks him mind whats wrong with they he's never been one to hide away his views and be all nicy nice. He's a mechanic he know how to make cars work few people on here have even an incline how to do that sort of thing. Look at some of the posts on the forum many people arn't mechanic don't know or care how things work or how to fix them.

Only one other person on here tried something as complex as he did. And they did it after Matt had fitted a TT to his car they fitted it to a ligther Mk1 shell.

 

[ja.jack]

So to sum up:

You think it's ok for MATT to **** off the forum members?

You seem to be doing it yourself in a weird unaware fashion.

What if I was to make a nasty comment about your obvious DYSLEXIA,
How would you like that?

 

[Middo]

So to sum up:

You think it's ok for MATT to **** off the forum members?

You seem to be doing it yourself in a weird unaware fashion.

What if I was to make a nasty comment about your obvious DYSLEXIA,
How would you like that?

cant see for the life of me what this thread has got to do about eddes 'obvious dyslexia' so grow up, and stop trying to make it personal.

edde is entitled to his opinion, and as far as i'm concerned i think its a valid point. i am a member of this forum - yes, but yet have no idea how to even start a VAG transplant into my clio. so if matt wants to 'look down' on me i personally really dont have a problem with that as i respect him for attempting/doing it.

 

[edde]

So to sum up:

You think it's ok for MATT to **** off the forum members?

You seem to be doing it yourself in a weird unaware fashion.

What if I was to make a nasty comment about your obvious DYSLEXIA,
How would you like that?

1) Its his mind and his opinion how can I affect his opinion of 99% of the forum members? Thats his and there problem I don't care if he included me in that 99% its his opinion. His choice of words wasn't polite but thats his view complain to the mods if you disagree with what he think but you'll never change his opinion he held at the time. You can silence him if mods agree though.

2) He can call me a dyslexia prat if he wants I don't care if his view why should I care? I could say loads about him its my view. You may think I'm an a genious doesn't make me one its your view. Same if you think I'm an idiot you can print it on the foum doesn't make it so its your view.

If Matt had said

"99% of the people on here havn't got the knowedge to do any tunning" Would that be wrong?

What about
"99% of the people on here havn't got the ability to do any tunning"
Would that be wrong?

What about
"99% of the people on here don't know anything about tunning or car mechanics"
Would that be wrong?

 

[edde]

cant see for the life of me what this thread has got to do about eddes 'obvious dyslexia' so grow up, and stop trying to make it personal.

edde is entitled to his opinion, and as far as i'm concerned i think its a valid point. i am a member of this forum - yes, but yet have no idea how to even start a VAG transplant into my clio. so if matt wants to 'look down' on me i personally really dont have a problem with that as i respect him for attempting/doing it.

I'm glad I'm making sence to someone else.

Anyway back to the topic (Unless you want to go offtopic again I've no problem with that)

People want to go quick why buy a 182 when a 1.2 8V is enought you'll still break the speed limits and save a huge amount of money surly the basic tunning and needing for speed is being foprfilled by Renault making more than 1 petrol and 1 diesel engine people pay for HP with warenties.

 

[ja.jack]

I rest my case.

 

[ahmet]

lol.so whos 182 has done the 1/4 in 12 secs or v low 13s??

who has a 230bhp 182

i am going to have

 

[ahmet]

the point of the thread was "is tuning worth it?"

i wouldnt spend 8k on a clio. there is just no logic imo..id put the money into somthing to make more money. but thats just me.

theres m3's knocking about for 18k..

12-14k for a 182 + your 8k.= 21-22k on a clio .... no thanks

You would put the money into something that would make money? What like stocks and shares or a house?

I already own a house and the 8k is disposable income. At the end of the day I dont think there is a right or wrong answer it depends on the individual.

I wouldnt consider jap turbo or exec saloon to replace my clio. The only possible other option would be a Caterham/Westfield but I would be looking at 10k+ to get something half decent.

Then again why would I want a kit car made out of fibreglass when I could have any number of far 'better' cars

mark they cant understand the feeling between quick hatch and quick sedan.thats why dont waste your breath.whan my car finish i ll be the happiest man.230 bhp small beast.impress every drive on the road

 

[TheJesus]

Ben, clearly you have a lack of understanding of tuned Clio's,

fpmsl!!!!

that must be quote of the year

anybody else get tired of thejesus's costant arguing, and how he is always right?

keyboard warrior............ :quiet:

It's not a case of being right or wrong, if you bothered to read any of what I wrote you'll clearly see that I said it's down to personal choice. some people say tuning a Clio is pointless and buy a faster car, you can make a case either side is what I said. If people want to start bringing £40k+ cars in to make a point then I think it's only fair to remind them of the relative costs. Sure, a Clio will never be an M3, but then even tuned it will never cost the same, so it's all relative... that any easier to understand?

think we need to define what a keyboard warrior is, I thought that was someone that acted 'ard over the internet threatening people, yet's a complete wet when you actually meet them? I'll have you know I'm every bit as obnoxious in person and have no heirs and graces thank you very much! :clown:

 

[TheJesus]

That Jesus guy is an entertaining fellow. If you went out for a beer with him you'd probably spend a night in the cells.

hey, sometimes a sheep just needs to be pushed through a fence... I never knew my methods were illegal :quiet:

 

[2 live]

The cars your mentioning both are with different engine were on about tunning the stock ones.

3) Swap the gearbox for a 172 box (shorter gearing)
6) Carbon-fibre replacement parts (as long as they're reasonably-priced).
7) Perspex windows
8) Lighter exhaust system (reasonably priced)
9) A/C out & electric window internals out!
9) Manifold match
10) Panel filter

Forget to say the gearbox swop isn't worth it time wise realy get the box for when yours were to go and then do it otherwsie leve it for the minimal gains realy

Forget carbon fiber its only adding weight.

Perspex windows is good dump the winders on the passenger side as well.

Dump the alarm to save weight if you want.

Loads of extra wiring to strip out if you wanted. rear wiper for starters plus its piping etc.

You could dump the coolent pump as well if you want run an electric one stop the PAS sapping the power dump the PAS as well to save weight etc either manal rack or electric from a normal car.

Don't know why no ones commented on this?

''99% of people on here are complete fukwits''

MATT, Most members don't have the inclination/knowledge to build a death trap motor like you did. It's not rocket science after all. So don't you be feeling smug and superior.

Your comment just reinforces a long held belief that tuners hold their customers in contempt.

Matts wan't a death trap if he's have sorted the dirveshafts he's still alive so it wasn't that bad. I've seen much worst on normal cars.

Matts not a tunner business though what he does is for himself so he has no tunner clients.

lol.ask jordi who built it.......same as the scirocco.

 

[TheJesus]

the Clio TT was well converted, considering it's not meant to go into a Clio I think it's pretty commendable that he's tried and succeeded. No one else has managed anything even half as interesting or fast on here.

 

[Fred@BTM]

was scary to drive it though!