The Works Cooper!!!! Oh No

[abbs_172]

Right this is a wake up call to Reno BMW have beaten them to providing upgrades, even though they were promised in the Cup brochure...

Lets all get onto Reno and get them to pull their finger out.........

The new mini cooper s works is spanking............i love the looks and for "2k or 3 k extra you can upgrade your cooper s! Now surely there laughing at us...

I think these things will be quick damn quick

200 bhp , 0 - 60 6.8 secs, and then the rest is spankingly good!

Buy Autocar to read a full review.........

 

[RobFenn]

I hate them personally but i agree with the fact that Renault should get the title back that we should own!

 

[Dash]

Is 0 - 60 6.8 secs "damn quick" ?

 

[BenR]

playing with forced induction is far easier than getting more out of a static NA engine though......

 

[RobFenn]

I think the mid range is the thing with the mini, gearing doesnt allow quick 0-60 times in them. But no, 6.8 isnt quick!

 

[Norfolk-172]

Yep they do look VERY nice, but 18K No way would I pay that! But im sure plenty of ppl will.

Yeah, but Renault wont get much unless they go with throttle bodies. And there is NO WAY that will happen, chip is the best they can give us im guessing?

 

[RobFenn]

I think its too little too late, the new clios coming out next year, if i were Renault i wouldnt bother.

Yeah 18 grand for a little hatchback, you could get a Cup and get TBs and all kinds of goodies for that.

 

[Tommy]

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 19 March 2003


I hate them personally but i agree with the fact that Renault should get the title back that we should own!

Rob is it something specific or everything about the mini you hate ?

Just curious,

Tommy.

 

[RSTDL]

Evo tested it at 7.2 to 62mph - utter crap for the ammount of money u need to spend - typical BMW! Hate the looks and its performance isnt really a worry!

 

[RobFenn]

Tommy i dont like the looks and the overdesigned interior. Rear seats and boot space are a joke, engine isnt good..

 

[RSTDL]

6.8 do 62 is not damn quick - the cup does 6.5 to 62 and that aint quick either, even 6 secs isnt quick, what it does the tonne in is what counts?

 

[philip]

my 2 cents on the Mini/Clio debate: I had a Mini cooper for 6 months from March to late summer 2002. I loved the cooper in terms of handling, design, looks. I then started to think about a cooper S, and checked out the various conversions available from JC Works, Hartge etc. I can assure you that a cooper running at 200hp would be a fantastic car, with few others to match its handling.

That was until a good friend who races a caterham R300 and drives a modded elise for "normal" use, recommended I took a look at a clio cup. Even though we have other cars, I wanted something fast, fun but with two seats in the back. Having spent some time working out the bhp/ton/handling vs. cost, I cannot think of any other car that comes anywhere near the cup. To make matters even better, I found a local dealer with a demonstrator that I am getting in April (the day it reaches its 3 months). It will have 3k miles on the clock (should be opening up nicely) and I got the VAT off ... After Im done with the modifications I have in mind, Ill have a 200hp+ cup for a price well below a standard Cooper S - No brainer -

 

[STICKER TWONK]

Ummm 6 seconds to 60 not quick? Does that make the 172, vavler and willys slow then?

IMO 6 seconds to 60 is very quick.

 

[RobFenn]

For what it is 0-60 in 6 secs is bloody quick. Though in the general scheme of things a quick 0-60 time would be under 6 seconds.

 

[DanG]

For road use id group it as follows.

Anything with a 0-60 under 8 secs is quick

anything 6-7 secs is chuffing quick

sub 6 secs and below and its time to get the spare undies out.

You dont need much quicker than 7.5 secs that to have a great time on the road... esp if it handles like its on rails.

 

[Frosty]

Well everything is comparative isnt it.

0-62 in 6.5 is quick for a car that costs very little, and has only a 2 litre NA engine.

0-62 in 6.5 is a lifetime to some of the cars I have been in though. I have been in some road-legal cars that do it in way under half that!

What I would say is look at the price of the package, then the 0-62 time. That way you can see if it is quick. E.g. A car that costs £100,000 that does 0-62 in 6 seconds is SLOW, but a car that costs £5,000 that puts in the same time is FAST.

My conclusion:

172 Cup:


Cost: £13,000
0-62: 6.5 seconds
Result: FAST
Mini Cooper S Works:


Cost: > £18,000!
0-60: 6.8 seconds
Result: SLOW
Does that make sence to anyone?

 

[abbs_172]

Me it does!

 

[Ben H]

I actually think that once youre actually out there in the real world that 0-60 in anything below 10 secs is quick. OK, so a car that does it in 6secs is probably a lot quicker than one that does it in 10 secs, but its all relative and there arent many cars sold that do it in less than 10 secs. Just think, for every Valver/Willy/172/Cooper S ever sold, there were about 200 Escort 1.3 Popular Plus sold!

I also think that relying on say 0-60 in 6.5 as opposed to 6.7/7.2 is really misleading. Firstly, 60 is an aribtrary speed figure and you might find very different results if it were 55 or 65. The Valver and Willy share a 0-60 of 7.7 secs, but the Willy is definitely faster in the real world.

Moreover we should be looking at braking, handling and gear ratios - as make a car fast too. BenR was not kidding when he said his mk1 XR2 snaps at the heels of Sapphire Cosworths on the track and that his barely altered 16v would pan his 172.

 

[RSTDL]

Just read the review in Auto express and autocar - in my opinion its rubbish for the money - 6.8 and 17.2 to 100 - everybody keepscomparing the cooper s to the type R the Golf R32 or Alfa romeo 147 GTA - they forget the cup beats or equals these cars in pe4rfromance and the cup defo beats the copper s works and all for £11995....................I sleep peacefully at night!

 

[CooperS-Boy]

So you are trying to say the Works Cooper S is only .1 seconds quicker than the standard Cooper S? According to the info I have the Cooper S hits 60 in 6.9 seconds and 62 in 7.4. Take a look at the John Cooper website and it says the Works S hits 62 in 6.6 seconds. I am going with Hartge anyway due to the money. That does 0-100 in 16.1 (Hartge website & Brochure) so I will leave it up to Cupsize to determin if he thinks that is quick or not seen as he rekons 0-60 times dont count. I look forward to seeing some clio cups at the up and coming RR day in Chesterfield. I think with the bunch of cars we will have between us we should be able to make up some nice comparisons.

Clio cup hits 60 in 6.5 and 62 in 6.8 I think? I dont own one so I dont have the brochures with all the details in but I think this is correct. Maybe someone will confirm this.

 

[RSTDL]

Wonder if this will speed the Cup mods up in response toi the 200BHP cooper works? Not that the cup needs and more power to match it..........lol

 

[abbs_172]

Cupsize have a look at my post about the ecu upgrade, Im sure BMW are laughing at us!

I still think the cup will keep up with the Cooper S works, and yes Cooper S boy those are the figures, go buy autocar the Cooper bloke is in it!

 

[CooperS-Boy]

You going to the RR day abbs_172??? I think I saw your name down. Look forward to seeing your motor. I have yet to see a Cup on the road.

 

[172man]

there wont be any mods as this would undermine future models. The Ecu thing is a waste of money itll just make it better drivability

 

[abbs_172]

Dont think so is it on the 12th I ve been a little lazy but I may come on long for a peak though! My Cup is standard..........

We may have to meet up in Sheff all of us sheff owners!

 

[RSTDL]

COOPER s boy ayeeee - the cup easily does 60 in under 6.5 no probs without even trying - ALL FOR UNDER £12k and if you are one of the lucky ones who waited they are now going for £10,995 over here, might have to buy another one just to have 2! Tuning u-pgrade packs that cost more than a couple of £100 are daft - I mean 0.1/0.2 of a sec differnce for all that cash - cheez by the time you have done all the upgrades to the standard cooper s - u coul dhave bought a second hand porsche or something thats worth all the money! BTW the ccoper s I heard does 62 in 7.7 - thats odd, then again the cup was tested at 6.2 to 62 so its down to the driver at the end of the day! And theyre aint gonna be a lot in it indfact cooper S works/hartge/GGR etc will be even stephens with a cup, no doubt about that - just think the pound per brake horse is a bit steep!

 

[abbs_172]

Go cup size, you tell it how you see it!

 

[teady172]

I have never seen a Cooper S timed at anything near 6.9 seconds to 60. All the mags have been around the 7.4-7.7s mark!

 

[RobFenn]

Guys its the midrange improved, gearing prevents a good 0-60

 

[BozVanDam]

Sorry to sound like Im banging on about this but the thing is - whatever it is (still favour BMW Compact myself) it ISNT a Mini. And Cooper S - dont make me laugh. As far as Im concerned BMW are p***ing all over the Mini and the Cooper name.

Here endeth todays rant

 

[Tommy]

Agree with Rob that the boot is tiny (can only get a couple of cases of Stella in) and the back seats are large with little or no leg room. But are there any cup/172 owners on here that specifically bought the car for the rear leg room or boot size ? When the mini first came out I did not like it, but again when the mk2 clio came out I didnt like that either. Both have since grown on me.

Each to their own,

Tommy.