Should be good fun and its interesting cos there seems to be a alot of different personalities and skills amongst the people doing trackdays like I've said previously im as interested to see how it works but I definetly think there's a huge opportunity to learn alot from the different people out there
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Track Tyres - Feedback and Recommendations
- Thread starter imprezaworks
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You say there to tight to do proper testing isn't that more like there trying to save money to develop more and surely if there of a standard that means there possibly gona make a career of it or are even just competing for fun dont they have more rights than us guys who just turn up once a month trying to be Lewis Hamilton for a day I know personally if say I was playing football on a pitch with pals kicking about an a kids team came over and wanted to play id happily just let them play surely isn't that the right thing to do
dann2707
ClioSport Club Member
Franky, please use some punctuation in your posts! They are incredibly hard to read haha
I can disagree with a few and say that you can go on track and have fun on road tyres. Me and @leeds2592 had a right laugh in my absolutely bog standard MX5
A solo vid from the day, the car is asthmatic as it's just a 1.8 NA but it was a great day!
I can disagree with a few and say that you can go on track and have fun on road tyres. Me and @leeds2592 had a right laugh in my absolutely bog standard MX5
A solo vid from the day, the car is asthmatic as it's just a 1.8 NA but it was a great day!
dann2707
ClioSport Club Member
Yes? Why does it seem slower or something?
No, no was getting at mine being 'just' a 1.8 NA. Going well in the 5.
dann2707
ClioSport Club Member
Ohhhh, yeah but this was 140bhp and thr car was incredibly slow! Literally bog standard haha
Mr Underhill
ClioSport Club Member
My 2 pence worth. I started my first season on Yokohama AD08R's, not the new compound. 195/55/15's on TD Pro Race 1.2 wheels.
Worth noting my Clio 182 is running a modified version of the Spax coilovers as used in 750 MC 182 Clio Championships. Stiff as hell.
On track i found them quite grippy for the first few proper laps, then they slowly started to loose grip and after 6 or so spirited laps they'd be sliding all over the place. At Croft i literally took chucks out of them before the circuit was resurfaced. A friend runs them on his half track/road Clio 182 with B14 suspension and likes them, although like me, after a few hot laps they start to slide about. I refer to them as a 10 minute track day tyre. Nice and cheap.
I also had them on my Clio 182 daily with 16" Turinis & 205/45/16 tyres. I found them useless in the wet or cold damp mornings and they made my car tramline something rotten. Switched to 195/45/16 Michelin PS3's and it's transformed the way the car behaves.
Yokohama A050's - Switched to these from the AD08R's for my track car and they're night and day. I could stay out on track twich as long as before and the grip never changed. Obviously they're more expensive but i can't praise these tyres enough. My mate runs them in the TDT championship (45 minute race) with his Clio 182 and swears by them.
They have a re-enforced carcass construction so can take more camber but sadly not road legal haha. I was running 30 PSi in the front and 35 psi rear with - 3.5 negative camber on the front. Ran for 2 seasons and found them really hard wearing. I'd get 4 trackdays out of a set easily switching front to rears to even out the wear.
Yokohama A052's - i moved over to these after the A050's became difficult to find. I found them really grippy and set my fastest times on them. Despite the grip they move around underneath you a lot, but can withstand long stints (20 minutes) with little to no change in feel. They're also good on damp tracks, something the A050's are awful at, so you're not so much worried about the weather - unless it chucks it down of course - then you're fooked.
The downside for me was the degradation. I fitted a brand new set, did Croft and couldn't believe how much they'd worn away. By the time i got to Cadwell Park a month later, they'd literally thrown the towel in by lunchtime. Big lockup at the foot of the mountain and i was loading the car up shortly after lunch.
They're not cheap either at £135 a corner.
I have since discovered a few things about these tyres which would help with the longevity going forward.
1. They don't like as much camber
2. They have no under tread, so as soon as the tread cap is worn out .i.e. flatspot, the carcass belts are exposed and the rest of the tread starts to separate from the carcass.
3. They need slightly more pressure over the A050's, 32 psi front and less in the rears, so 32 psi as opposed to 35.
Overall i liked them a lot and have bought another set which i'll use for damper days and as a back up tyre.
Going forward i've now found a new supplier for the A050's so i'm back on those now. Best tyres i've used for track by a country mile and at £105 a corner i consider them a bargain.
I can't comment on other brands of trackday tyres, but my mate has also raced with NS2R's, AR1's, 888R's and went back to A050's. Personal preference i guess.
Worth noting my Clio 182 is running a modified version of the Spax coilovers as used in 750 MC 182 Clio Championships. Stiff as hell.
On track i found them quite grippy for the first few proper laps, then they slowly started to loose grip and after 6 or so spirited laps they'd be sliding all over the place. At Croft i literally took chucks out of them before the circuit was resurfaced. A friend runs them on his half track/road Clio 182 with B14 suspension and likes them, although like me, after a few hot laps they start to slide about. I refer to them as a 10 minute track day tyre. Nice and cheap.
I also had them on my Clio 182 daily with 16" Turinis & 205/45/16 tyres. I found them useless in the wet or cold damp mornings and they made my car tramline something rotten. Switched to 195/45/16 Michelin PS3's and it's transformed the way the car behaves.
Yokohama A050's - Switched to these from the AD08R's for my track car and they're night and day. I could stay out on track twich as long as before and the grip never changed. Obviously they're more expensive but i can't praise these tyres enough. My mate runs them in the TDT championship (45 minute race) with his Clio 182 and swears by them.
They have a re-enforced carcass construction so can take more camber but sadly not road legal haha. I was running 30 PSi in the front and 35 psi rear with - 3.5 negative camber on the front. Ran for 2 seasons and found them really hard wearing. I'd get 4 trackdays out of a set easily switching front to rears to even out the wear.
Yokohama A052's - i moved over to these after the A050's became difficult to find. I found them really grippy and set my fastest times on them. Despite the grip they move around underneath you a lot, but can withstand long stints (20 minutes) with little to no change in feel. They're also good on damp tracks, something the A050's are awful at, so you're not so much worried about the weather - unless it chucks it down of course - then you're fooked.
The downside for me was the degradation. I fitted a brand new set, did Croft and couldn't believe how much they'd worn away. By the time i got to Cadwell Park a month later, they'd literally thrown the towel in by lunchtime. Big lockup at the foot of the mountain and i was loading the car up shortly after lunch.
They're not cheap either at £135 a corner.
I have since discovered a few things about these tyres which would help with the longevity going forward.
1. They don't like as much camber
2. They have no under tread, so as soon as the tread cap is worn out .i.e. flatspot, the carcass belts are exposed and the rest of the tread starts to separate from the carcass.
3. They need slightly more pressure over the A050's, 32 psi front and less in the rears, so 32 psi as opposed to 35.
Overall i liked them a lot and have bought another set which i'll use for damper days and as a back up tyre.
Going forward i've now found a new supplier for the A050's so i'm back on those now. Best tyres i've used for track by a country mile and at £105 a corner i consider them a bargain.
I can't comment on other brands of trackday tyres, but my mate has also raced with NS2R's, AR1's, 888R's and went back to A050's. Personal preference i guess.
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
Where are you getting A050's for £105 each Jon?
That's mega cheap!
That's mega cheap!
Mr Underhill
ClioSport Club Member
Not sure if i should say 😂 as i'll be needing a few sets and they might run out if everybody knows about it
Good read and agree with the AD08R's. Not tried the A050 but would like to as a replacement to my AR1's, but they are mega expensive in my sizes.
A052 seems a really interesting tyre, just that wear rate seems horrendous for the money. As you say maybe only good as an intermediate.
I was at Three Sisters last week competing in the Javelin Sprint Series, and the current class leader was running A052's. In the morning with pissing down rain I was leading on Rainsport 5's by near a second, as soon as the track started to dry he instantly started to get faster, by the end in the damp he was 1.2s a lap faster, and that was with me changing to AR1's. Its a lot of outlay for a tyre that would only be used in damp conditions though.
I'm now looking at Extreme performance tyres VR1 as the guys running these at 3S were miles ahead in heavy rain and the damp, supposedly the VR2 is also very good in the dry. They are remolds but they're getting rave reviews, and they're very cheap. They even do a full wet in the VR3.
EXTREME VR1 - Extreme - Tyres (extremetyresuk.com)
EXTREME VR2 - Extreme - Tyres (extremetyresuk.com)
EXTREME VR3 - Extreme - Tyres (extremetyresuk.com)
Mr Underhill
ClioSport Club Member
I agree. I'd already bought a new set of 52's as up until last weekend my search for A050's was fruitless. So already had them and will take them along to the next trackday's as we're starting to move towards Autumn and potential damp conditions. Got some Rainsports as well in case it chucks it down.
Greeny.
ClioSport Club Member
440i + 182
Come on @Jon Wright wheres these A050’s we all dream of that don’t actually seem to exist lol. Are the A048’s meant to be for us? I’m between these and AR1’s to try next for dry, although not 100% sure what to pair these with for a very damp/soaking track? Was tempted with two of the semi obvious choices, eg Rainsports or PS3’s
Mr Underhill
ClioSport Club Member
I was actually at Silverstone at a race meeting and just happened to be chatting to a lad, who knew a lad and it went from there. I've been looking forever. I'm not sure how many sets there are so i'll drop him an email and see if it's ok to put the word out. I don't want to s**t in my own nest so to speak 😂
I was going to go down the A048 or AR1 route once i'd used up the 52's. My mate said out of all the other tyres he'd tested in a race, the AR1 were the better dry tyres. I have Rainsports because of the suspension set up, they seem to cope ok. I've used PS3's at Cadwell in the wet and they were almost as good as RS grip wise, but they don't like my car for some reason.
Jamie86
ClioSport Club Member
RS175,595,205gti,172
I’ve gone from AO50 to AR1 and so far not gettting on with them. Much less front end grip but tbh not had much chance to play around with setup just took some camber off.
I’ve also got a set of the MRF ZTR which I think I will try out for the next round after hearing a lot of good things.
If they’re crap as well I guess it’s off to AO52 or back on DZ03G!
I’ve also got a set of the MRF ZTR which I think I will try out for the next round after hearing a lot of good things.
If they’re crap as well I guess it’s off to AO52 or back on DZ03G!
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
A050 are in the same class as DZ03G (1C)
AR1 are the class below (1B)
Usually a good indicator of what tyres are better than others in terms of dry laptimes.
Jamie86
ClioSport Club Member
RS175,595,205gti,172
So are Yoko A052 and arguably fastest tyre of the lot 😉
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
52's are actually in the same class as AR1 😂
Jamie86
ClioSport Club Member
RS175,595,205gti,172
That’s what I said…
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
The 50's and Direzzas will be faster.
Clio 197,with megan'
As an old mans perspective,( 81 years old.) I run a R26 360 bhp. The car is quicker than my ability. In a year I will do Oulton/Anglesey/Cadwell/Spa etc.,and I have been criticised for pulling over, and letting people past, BUT, I am happy to go at a pace I am happy with, and drive the car home at the end of the day. I go with a great group of guys, and am by far, the slowest in the group.I spend a lot of time, getting a corner right, only to fail miserably, as the next corner has come up, and I get it all wrong, but who cares, I am still having a great time. The younger you are, the more...mines bigger than yours....syndrome seems to apply.I got over that, by taking up solo parachuting in my mid years. Thank god, I am well past that stage.Mid September, I am at Oulton, then Anglesey the next day, nice to be back on track again. Stay safe people.
Clio 197,with megan'
Forgot to add, Rainsport 3 for the road, Cup 2 for track!.
Mr Underhill
ClioSport Club Member
I love this. Good on you fella. I’m 57 now and a relative pup compared to you, but I’m still ultra competitive and can hold my own against the younger drivers with similar machinery.
The time will come when I’m just happy to get out on track. And if I reach 81 and I’m still doing what you’re doing, then I’ll be over the moon.
Keep doing what you’re doing fella and might see you out there one day.
Robbie Corbett
ClioSport Club Member
Anyone tried interstate sprint tyres? Seem very cheap
Very interesting thread, as another old git who still loves racing and track days I have enjoyed reading the recent posts about the tyres currently available.
I feel discussing tyres is a bit like debating Brexit, the origin of the universe, or religion! A different opinion for every possible combination of tyre-driver-car-track-weather, but there is a lot of useful information in there.
I am still looking for a tyre that will give me a marked improvement in lap time, without to going full slicks, and have been conducting my own ongoing 'tyre test' at Lydden Hill.
The test is fairly consistent in that it is the same track, dry weather only, same driver, and the same car: Clio 182, 176BHP, 950kg, Gripper LSD.
I've also done over a thousand laps of the track.
My first observation is how little effect the tyres have on lap times in the Clio compared to my previous car: 4WD Impreza, 460bhp, 1280kg.
Obviously the Impreza was significantly quicker overall, but the type and condition of tyre made a much bigger difference to the lap tines.
Possibly because the car had both the power and the weight to punish the tyres a lot harder than the lighter less powerful Clio?
Anyway tyres I have tried in the last couple of years are:
Federal 595 RS R
Federal 595 RS Pro
Yoko AD08
Zestinho Gredge
Nakang Ar-1
Toyo R888R
I have generally have combinations of the above with the better tyres on the front and less grippy on the rear.
I'm not making any subjective comments, just going on lap times from the same AIM solo DS datalogger
There is a 'huge' variation of 0.421 seconds between the best and worst!
Best: New AR-1s on the front, scrubbed Ar-1s on the rear 49.288
Federal 595 RS scrubbed all round 49.317
Federal 595 RS new on front, used and 'softened' Yoko AD08 on rear 49.344
Zestinho Gredge new on front, scrubbed on rear 49.397
Toyo r888r on front, used Ar-1 on rear 49.471
Worst: Federal 595 Pro new on front, used and softened Yoko AD08 on rear 49.709
So the difference the tyres make can easily be lost in one cocked-up corner or by being baulked by another car.
From the recent posts I guess I need to try either the Dunlops or Yoko A050s If I can find them, otherwise its full slicks or more power!
I think I will try the Dunlops and report back.
I feel discussing tyres is a bit like debating Brexit, the origin of the universe, or religion! A different opinion for every possible combination of tyre-driver-car-track-weather, but there is a lot of useful information in there.
I am still looking for a tyre that will give me a marked improvement in lap time, without to going full slicks, and have been conducting my own ongoing 'tyre test' at Lydden Hill.
The test is fairly consistent in that it is the same track, dry weather only, same driver, and the same car: Clio 182, 176BHP, 950kg, Gripper LSD.
I've also done over a thousand laps of the track.
My first observation is how little effect the tyres have on lap times in the Clio compared to my previous car: 4WD Impreza, 460bhp, 1280kg.
Obviously the Impreza was significantly quicker overall, but the type and condition of tyre made a much bigger difference to the lap tines.
Possibly because the car had both the power and the weight to punish the tyres a lot harder than the lighter less powerful Clio?
Anyway tyres I have tried in the last couple of years are:
Federal 595 RS R
Federal 595 RS Pro
Yoko AD08
Zestinho Gredge
Nakang Ar-1
Toyo R888R
I have generally have combinations of the above with the better tyres on the front and less grippy on the rear.
I'm not making any subjective comments, just going on lap times from the same AIM solo DS datalogger
There is a 'huge' variation of 0.421 seconds between the best and worst!
Best: New AR-1s on the front, scrubbed Ar-1s on the rear 49.288
Federal 595 RS scrubbed all round 49.317
Federal 595 RS new on front, used and 'softened' Yoko AD08 on rear 49.344
Zestinho Gredge new on front, scrubbed on rear 49.397
Toyo r888r on front, used Ar-1 on rear 49.471
Worst: Federal 595 Pro new on front, used and softened Yoko AD08 on rear 49.709
So the difference the tyres make can easily be lost in one cocked-up corner or by being baulked by another car.
From the recent posts I guess I need to try either the Dunlops or Yoko A050s If I can find them, otherwise its full slicks or more power!
I think I will try the Dunlops and report back.
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
You need to try the DZ03G yeah.
Greeny.
ClioSport Club Member
440i + 182
DZ03G are fantastic but prices have gone up quite a lot since I last bought a set which is putting me off slightly, got mine previously from:
Home
Mr Tyre Motorsport Ltd are a long established market leader in the supply of Multi Brand Race, Rally and Trackday tyres. Operating from our Tamworth warehouse, we are distributors for Cooper, Dunlop, Goodyear, Hankook, Kumho, Maxxis and Yokohama Race and Rally Tyres. We can provide Competition...
www.mrtyremotorsport.com
That's a big difference!
I know Donnington is about twice as long as Lydden, but also has about twice as many corners, so I should be able to find around 0.5 seconds at least.
Looks like A052s might be a bit more than the DZ03G, so I'll try the cheapest first.
I'd love to get a lap in the 48s with the current power.
Just a thought though. Find a tyre that gets you a quicker lap time and you keep having to shell out......get cams, timing and mapping and pay out once?!
Less satisfying in a way though.
Jamie86
ClioSport Club Member
RS175,595,205gti,172
Than Ao52? They aren’t.
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
Really?
I can't see how a non road legal race tyre (A050) is slower than the A052.
They even used the A050 in World Time Attack as the mandatory tyre.
Jamie86
ClioSport Club Member
RS175,595,205gti,172
Everyone I know that has tested back to back has gone faster on 52
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
If that's same day testing, then that's good.
182
Although capable of setting a fast lap time A052’s in our experience will go off in the latter stages of a 15 minute race and the sidewalls are noticeably softer.
On a front wheel drive car doing 15 minute races A050’s on the front and A052’s on the back has been working well so far this season.
On a front wheel drive car doing 15 minute races A050’s on the front and A052’s on the back has been working well so far this season.
JamesBryan
ClioSport Club Member
A working temperature of 40°c versus 70+ would indicate you were right.
Mertin
ClioSport Club Member
Ph1 172&Ph2 172 Cup
Pretty sure interstate are no more. I was looking into them few months back as their on the MSA tyre list and not one Id heard much about
