What makes a Cup Car a Cup Car? Other race/rally Clios?

[massiveCoRbyn]

Apologies, I'm sure this will have come up before. I did some searching, but didn't turn much up. I'm interested in what was done to create the Clio Cup race cars? In 1*2 guise I mean.

Obviously there was the Sadev box, but interested in the rest of the car. I assume the shell was an unsealed job, with weld-in cage. What about suspension/brakes etc? There appears to have been a few rally versions around, were there many differences for these? Presumably the gearing would have been different at the very least. Also, seen a couple of supposed "Group N" versions with dog engagement H-pattern boxes instead of the clicky ones. Being Group N, I guess these are fairly standard otherwise.

Just interested in what modifications were carried out from the road cars and if there is a definitive spec around. Not for any real reason, just find that kind of thing interesting!

Pictures as well as descriptions would be even better of course :smile:

 

[Andy93]

I'd like to know this as well, particularly the entire suspension and geo setup info.

 

[Mr R.]

Id say @NorthloopCup is your man.

 

[MarcB]

I have the full PDF's for all three of these with every OE part number and picture for them.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Erm, basically, s**t loads! Lol! @p@blo has the homologation paperwork I believe.

 

[p@blo]

Erm, basically, s**t loads! Lol! @p@blo has the homologation paperwork I believe.

I just have the build manual - no technical specs sorry. The parts catalgoues will give a bit of a feel for whats different. clicky

Suspension wise all evos ran bilstein dampers with 1000lb front & 400lb rear springs with modified Laguna mk1 hubs (bushed insert to suit clio steering arms). Steering arm had a heat shield for the TREs & swapped solid lines on rack for braided items. Also had electric pump for the rack.

Early evo cars ran a silver rear damper with later evo running slightly heavier damper black ones. There was also a yellow variant with a softer dual rate spring on the later evo cars, but don't know for sure what was different about the damper - guessing similar to the silver maybe.

Believe early evo cars ran ET43 speedlines with evo01 onwards running ET48.5.

Camber was adjusted through different dia bolts (upper hole?) at 0.5mm increments - 3° 40' front and 3° 30' +/- 30' rear. Rear adjusted through shims with a max of five at a time & all facing the same direction allowed in the series.

Castor wasnt adjustable as used solid topmounts with the integral OMP strut bar.

They used a cup specific bushed wishbone with an additional strengtening plate. Outboard mount holes are drilled somewhere between the two road going clio types.

There were two lengths of uniball carrier to suit to two subframe types - evo01 onwards with the ST75 has the mount holes further out & hence a shorter uniball carrier. Heard there were different pin lengths too but all mine appear to be the same.

Rear beam was the same, just with solid bushes on later evos. UK/early evo cars also seemed to use the road going clio rear discs (poss for wheel speed pick ups) although late evo spec used a laguna rear hub with removable Alcon disc. Later evo cars ran the 182 style beam with marginally thicker ARB & the additional welded plating.

They ran std calipers with PF97 pads on the UK cars & the parts catalogue offering Pagid blue or grey fronts and 'i think' ds2500 or pagid rears. Master cyl was a 23.8mm item & used a dial type bias valve that was upgraded on the last evo to the same one used on the clio 3 cup.

Early evo/UK cars ran full braided lines bar between the bias to the rear t-piece & evo01 onwards only use braided on the rear beam. German Cup cars (last evo?) ran the Renaultsport embossed four pots.

Think thats about it suspension/brakes wise. There's obviously all the other cup specific bits too - solid engine & box mounts / Sadev box, lever, shafts & detachable wheel boss / Marelli electrics & milspec looms / Aim data logging (via ecu & limited no of sensor inputs) / Matter cage / braided fuel lines & Tatuus fuel rail / Orbisoud exhaust / Green cotton or 25 v6 airbox setup etc.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Interesting stuff!

Assume use of Laguna hubs got a bigger wheel bearing? Wonder what impact it has on geometry.

Do you have a copy of the build manual you could send me?

 

[p@blo]

Guess it was the best fit item out of the parts bin that worked with the rollcentre correction.

Think the bearing is bigger, at least compared to the early style 172 hub. If i remember i'll put up a couple of shots of them side by side.

PM your email and i'll fire over the pdf for the build manual.

 

[bozothenutter]

been looking at the S1600 bits......nice!
would love some of that wide track action...but...different everything!

 

[sam JFM]

[QUOTEo, post: 10810776, member: 39299"]Guess it was the best fit item out of the parts bin that worked with the rollcentre correction.

Think the bearing is bigger, at least compared to the early style 172 hub. If i remember i'll put up a couple of shots of them side by side.

PM your email and i'll fire over the pdf for the build manual.[/QUOTE]
Build manual or parts catalog,

 

[p@blo]

Have both Sam, didnt i already give you a copy?

 

[sam JFM]

Not of the build manual,

If you could send me a copy of that it would be great!

 

[Simon_16v]

@p@blo

Could you send me a copy of both across please? Interested to have read through it

 

[p@blo]

Yes mate no problem, i had to send the other guys the earlier version as the latest one was too large a file size to email. They're essentially the same though.

Fire over your email in a pm and i'll sort it out when i next get on the laptop. The parts catalogue is just the same as the one i linked up earlier.

Sam - will you be at Oulton next month for the Rsport day? If not drop me a pm and I'll likewise sort you a copy.

 

[s.mac]

Interesting read. I've always wanted a cup car and after missing out on a mint one I jumped in feet first and bought a bad one. Car number #11 so I presume it should have the older bits.
I've just started a winter/spring rebuild.
I took it to Croft for a test and after 2 x 20min sessions had to retire.
Over heating and clutch packed in.
Did a leak test and there's an issue. no idea why the clutch won't engage, will investigate later.
I have started the rebuild and will no doubt be using the search facility on here. It will be interesting to if the parts are as described. It has had a few mods and some original stuff is no more.
Kicking myself that I didn't walk away but after forking out for the car I need to make something out of it.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

So hit and miss buying competition car second hand. My Escort rally car has proven a right nightmare.

Stick a thread up, would be great to see some more pictures, especially of the Cup-specific parts.

 

[s.mac]

Yes nightmare, only buy a race car when is pulling off track, after a race. Why didn't I listen ...
I've 2 cars in bits at the moment. I will put some pics up a bit further down the line. I've already sold the original bolt in cage and going for an international weld in cage.
All work in progress. There seems to be loads of info on here. But some of the threads take all night to read ....

 

[kingjm]

We're any of the cup cars road legal??

 

[mikekean]

Not from the factory, none of the cars had VIN numbers are were not type approved for road use. I put my car through the equivalent of an SVA here, as far as I know its the only if not one of very few properly road legal cup cars in the UK. Everyone else just does a dodgy and uses a log book from a scrapped car, but no worse than most mk2 Escorts..