Just been to B&Q and they sell some nice drain pipe pieces that would make ideal scoops for air intake pipes on my Williams. Experimentation at the weekend has convinced me that there is power to be had by using some sort of front mounted air scoop to ram ait into the air box. The only trouble is, where would i locate them. I dont like the idea of removing a fog light. Removing both and having a scoop each side might be an idea. The one on my mates Pug 106 sits ontop of the radiator. What about under the car? If you had a long enough scoop (say the entire width of the front of the car), you may only need it to stick one inch under the front of the car to give a big enough surface are to be effective. You think this would work??
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Williams Air Scoop
- Thread starter king.stromba
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- williams
Just been to B&Q and they sell some nice drain pipe pieces that would make ideal scoops for air intake pipes on my Williams. Experimentation at the weekend has convinced me that there is power to be had by using some sort of front mounted air scoop to ram ait into the air box. The only trouble is, where would i locate them. I dont like the idea of removing a fog light. Removing both and having a scoop each side might be an idea. The one on my mates Pug 106 sits ontop of the radiator. What about under the car? If you had a long enough scoop (say the entire width of the front of the car), you may only need it to stick one inch under the front of the car to give a big enough surface are to be effective. You think this would work??
If its sitting under the car, might want to advoid any puddles or gravel car parks...
This is true. Id rather it was high up on the car. Could you use the air flow that cools the exhaust manifold from the bonnet scoop?
Im wanting to do something similar with the 172. Ive got 3 pipes coming out the bottom of the car which scoops air up to the open K&N filter (shielded with aluminium). However, Im going to seal the kit to make it work like a PiperX Viper. I want some sort of scoop to force air up into the space below the headlamp. Let us know how you go, as I need ideas of materials to use to do this.
Ive just been round B&Q and they have all sorts of piping. Some of the piping alows split flow, corner pieces and a really cool piece called a split flow pipe, that really couldnt be better designed as an air scoop. I am thinking of fabricating my own though. Im going to have a good look at my mates Pug 106 as that seems to be a real good solution. I cant beleive the difference a chip, exhaust and ram scoop has made to his car. Big gains.
Just spoken to my friend with the Pug 106 gti and he had a rolling road before and after his mods. A chip (set up on the rolling road), exhaust, air scoop and performance filter and a decat gave him 25 BHP. Not bad gains for a light little car with those mods. What do you think a Willy would gain with the same?
Nice dead fly collection. Ever thought of making the circumfrence of the intake pipe bigger at the opening (like a funnel)? What about a square funnel that sits behind the grill. Trouble with a With is that there is nowhere to really put a pipe in the front of the car, except the fog light. Looks good though.
Tight bends means less airflow, as do long pipes, it s very hit and miss, keep trying your ideas till something works, but expect about 3-4 bhp max if you can get more, give up your day job!
3 or 4 BHP for a piece of piping and a bit of time. Ill have a piece of THAT. I just tried a similar thing on my Volvo 340. The carb is ontop of the engine and ontop of this is the air box. From this passing forwards is the inlet pipe which bends down and attaches to the front on the car behing the bumper. I just ripped the pipe from the front of the car and opened the bonet and stuck the pipe out the front of the car. So now the pipe is short, has no bends, wide and passes straight to the airbox. And WOW. A different car. Much improved. Obviously im not going to drive around with the bonnet open but it shows how restrictive some of these inlets are.
Clio 1.6 16V
MarkC, done the temperature tests with a 24degC ambient over a range of driving speeds (30-80mph) and clocked up an average of 2 decC differential between ambient and temp at the air filter (you will see my temp sensor in the picture below). Dont think you will get much better than that from an aftermarket sealed system which uses a much smaller more restrictive air filter. BTW I use a custom air box with K&N 57i which seals to the inside of the bonnet (everybody says K&N are crap!). I have certainly noticed differences in throttle response since fitting.
http://www.fifegallery.co.uk/domains/cliosport/coldair03.jpg
Is that housing completely sealed with the bonnet down?
Mine:
http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/file.php?image=1059939263__new_01.jpg
http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/file.php?image=1059939207__new_02.jpg
http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/cliosport/file.php?image=1059939364__new_05.jpg
Ive wrapped heat resistant tape round the silver piping now and changed the 60mm tubes for some 70mm tubes.
Clio 1.6 16V
Pretty much so. You can see the mark of the seal on the under-felt pad when you lift the bonnet. When idling you can just feel the air sucking in through the bottom air scoop. A "semi-sealed" system! BTW Ive fired a hose at the bottom duct while the wife had it on part throttle and the filter element was dry afterwards. You may have noticed that the pipe routes downwards slightly before heading up to the airbox. I have a small hole at the bottom of this bend to let water drain out. Ive since driven the car in torrential downpours on motorways without problems.
With that drain / inlet you may be able to replace those three pipes with one large bore pipe
Thats a good idea having a drain plug. I noticed after i went out in the rain the other day, i took the air box after i got in and the piping was wet. Bit concerned but the filter was dry.
Clio 1.6 16V
The inlet ducting I use is 75mm. About the max you can get up behind the 172 NS Xenon headlamp with the air valve thingy removed. You could possibly get a larger inlet diameter on the Cup with standard headlights.
I noticed when i did my blue peter job on my Willy with the funnel, that the car was faster at lower revs? Whats the reason for this. You think i am not getting enough air to the engine with the hill power chip?
Clio 1.6 16V
Its all about getting enough cold air to the inlet tracts of the engine. Even if you could reach 200 mph you would not reach a significant positive (boost) pressure. So IMHO pressurisation doesnt come into the equation at normal road speeds. If you have a larger inlet duct you will probably "force" more cold air in there at lower speeds though creating some extra torque when compared to standard airbox/ducting designs.
so multiple cold air pipes from various locations to cool the air passing into the airbox (like rhys) may be the way to go? Any scoop would just increase flow of cold air at lower velocities making the system work at fast and low speeds?
Clio 1.6 16V
Yep, I reckon so to a certain extent! Its all about min differentail temp between inlet and temp at the TB at the end of the day with enough volumetric flow IMHO.
The question is, are there any clever ways to lower the temp? Dry ice in a sealed tube wrapped round the piping might work, but youd have to fill it up evertime you drove.
Am i right in assuming that the intake of air by the engine is caused by the downstroke of the cylinder? If so then this creates a low pressure above the desended cylinder which results in a pressure differential between this area and the inlet manifold. The result is that air travels down the inlet manifold from the area of high pressure, to the engine the area of low pressure. A scoop that rams air into the airbox will increase the pressure in the airbox. Would this increased pressure the create a greater pressure differential between the engine and the air box with the result that more air will pass into the engine? So although temp is important, pressure is important too?
What does the old thread conclude? Could save alot of time. Does ram air work for a Williams? Is the original induction restrictive in any way?
So why would Peugot develop one as an add on for the 106 GTI?
dunno, not aware of any drain pipe like pipe in teh engine bay, jsut a rubber elbow from the airbox
And the pug design is to best get a fresh supply of cold air.
The Ram principal does work in theory, but not even F1 or Indycars apply it.
The speeds we can reach are just not high enough to build a positive presssure.
Ok so air travels from an area of high pressure to an area of low pressure. Basic science. The low pressure is in the engine caused by the downstroke of the cylinder (im not very technical i hope this is right). This creates a pressure difference that alllows air to passively move from the air inlet manifold to the engine (this is in the standard case). A normal filter (paper) impedes this air flow particularly as it gets old, and this is the principle of a performance filter. The performance filter is less restrictive and facilitates an easier flow of passive air down its concentration gradient from the airbox to the engine.
Now, from a non techinical viewpoint with my scientific hat on, i would have thought that if you can increase the pressure in the airbox, you will in effect create a greater pressure differential between the airbox and the engine. The greater the difference between the area of low pressure and the area of high pressure, the faster the air will travel (this is basic meteorology). This increased pressure differential may allow a greater flow of passive air down the pressure differential from thew airbox to the engine. So im not saying that you ramming air into the engine. Im saying you are trying to facilitate the normal process by increasing the pressure differential from the airbox to the engine.
However, this does in fact assume that there is less air reaching the engine than it actually needs. i.e. there is no point supplying 150% of the air required by the engine, as it will only ever need 100%. So if a standard Willy gets 95% of the air it needs (perhaps due to a poor inlet pipe that is restrictive), you could by increasing the pressure in the airbox suupply the extra 5% and get a performance increase.
This is only theory. Please feel free to shoot me down in flames. Also i know where only talking 1 maybe 2 BHP, but i feel that if you can find 1 or 2 BHP in a number of areas, it soon adds up.
Rhys, did you have a look at that piping?
I agree it wont work on all cars, but if a car had a restrictive inlet pipe it may be losing power due to restrictive air flow. The question is - is thw Williams inlet pipe restrictive?
