Williams no.125 Turbo

[wag1]

Hi all, thought I would do a write up on my Turbo'd Williams.

Have got a rather unorganised project thread on c16v but thought I could update and neaten it into a new thread for (hopefully)more people to appreciate.

So to start a history of WAM

Bought back in Feb 2011 as my first Williams after wanting one for ages. I decided to bite the bullet and come away from the 16v's and go for a proper clio.

Ive had around 10 valvers over the last 5 years so the idea behind the williams was to fit my turbo engine I had been building to it.

In November 2008 I gave my F7R to Craig at APD with the intention of a standard rebuild. Well one thing lead to another, found some parts and ended up going low compression! Much to my bank managers disgust.

I went pretty OTT on the spec and made sure I had everything needed to go all out in the spec department. At least then I wouldnt regretnot doing it later. Anyway some pictures

Block

Lightened crank

Wossner pistons

Forged rods

Tickety turbo

Trying to cut a very very long story short I had alot of very new parts I had bought brand new over the years for my valvers.

The Williams, being my new baby, got whatever it wanted. So...

285mm Hi specs

New wishbones, bushes, newARB

Ive always been the kind of person who regrets not doing things properly the first time. So I made sure I went to a good spec.

Catcams turbo spec cams]
Gas flowed head
GT28RS60 Turbo
Lightened crank
Lightened 172 flywheel
Helix four paddle
33mm valves
Vernier pulleys
Uprated cam springs

So basically went as far as I could go without doing silly money.

Gas flow

Shiney things

My next port of call was receiving the engine backafter a solid 2 years with Craig...

Getting it built up on the stand was a great feeling

Fitting new JC5 to it

Luckily I had done all of this 100 times before so it all came naturally!

Once it was all mocked up,newbolts bought for the turbo, new manifoldstuds from renault I torqued it all up and got it ready to stick in the car.

In

Cooler mocked up

Ghetto ramp

Getting there

I had decided to go down the standalone management route. Basically I couldnt help thinking thats getting the car chipped was a bit of a bodgey way of doing it. Sorry to anyone that has.

So I ordered a part made loom (to help me a bit) and an Emerald K6 ecu. (which, btw, is the coolest gadget I have ever had)

After a few niggles with the loom were ironed out, I got the car cranking and everything reading right... basically got a chap downwho knows his Emeralds and we couldnt get it going.

Disaster, no compression. 40psi across the board.

As you can imagine. 2 1/2 years after paying alot of money for an engine and still not having a working one really hurt my feelings!

Back to Craig it went. Somehow the valves were getting stuck open and for whatever reason it kept knocking the timing out. So basically Craig put some different tensile bolts inand 16 new catcam valve springs. (another 800 odd quid!)

Finally the car came back to me (running).

Having now completed everything in terms of the build, I am waiting for mapping on the 6th.

The engine drives super nice, its a bit glitchy with the unmapped ecu but apart from that theres nothing major left.

Havnt even been allowed to let it boost yet, but ATM with less than 40% throttle allowance and my wastegate wide open, its actually quicker than a zetec s. Lolz

Figures to come on Friday!

thanks for reading even though it wasnt massively entertaining. Ive used language my Nan wouldnt be proud of quite a few times!

 

[leeds_182]

Nice write up dude. Look forward to seeing some more pics and bids when it's all sorted.

 

[rosco454]

Looks like a nice build,looking forward to seeing some finished pics and the results once its mapped.

Cheers Ross.

 

[wag1]

Thanks lads, Im practically bouncing off the ceiling for Friday. Im suprised my missus hasnt left me yet tbh

 

[Zmaster2k]

Omnomnomnom

 

[Gray]

Nice write up there

Sounds like a typical APD engine... 2yrs and still not right! Glad it's sorted now.

 

[Chip-mk1]

After a few niggles with the loom were ironed out, I got the car cranking and everything reading right... basically got a chap downwho knows his Emeralds and we couldnt get it going.

Disaster, no compression. 40psi across the board.

As you can imagine. 2 1/2 years after paying alot of money for an engine and still not having a working one really hurt my feelings!

Back to Craig it went. Somehow the valves were getting stuck open and for whatever reason it kept knocking the timing out. So basically Craig put some different tensile bolts inand 16 new catcam valve springs. (another 800 odd quid!)

What?
You paid 800 quid for some valve springs and a set of bolts to be fitted to an engine that never worked that you had paid to be built?
Why were the correct bolts not used in the first place?

Finally the car came back to me (running).

Having now completed everything in terms of the build, I am waiting for mapping on the 6th.

The engine drives super nice, its a bit glitchy with the unmapped ecu but apart from that theres nothing major left.

Havnt even been allowed to let it boost yet, but ATM with less than 40% throttle allowance and my wastegate wide open, its actually quicker than a zetec s. Lolz

Figures to come on Friday!

thanks for reading even though it wasnt massively entertaining. Ive used language my Nan wouldnt be proud of quite a few times!

Hope all goes well on the 6th Is it going to Dave Walker for mapping?

 

[andywa]

Good build mate. I'm looking forward to seeing the figures. More pics needed!

 

[wag1]

Cheers lads

Well tbh I try and remain a bit neutralwith the whole builder thing. But I will probrably never use an engine builder again

Yes chip I know, call me mad, I just wanted it done at the end of the day and TBH I got sick of waiting for another excuse or **** up.

If Im totally honest I still dont know the full extent of the engine, it runs ok but there were things I shouldnt of had to do and pay for.

Again Chip yes, Dave Walker will have to put up with my nail-biting and constant sweating for a few hours. Genuinely cant wait, not just for the mapping but for the experience.

Will get photos and vids up in due course mate

 

[Chip-mk1]

Dave Walker is a fantastic mapper, im sure you will get a great result from him.

Dont get too hung up on the figures though, if its 280, 300, 320 it really isnt going to make a massive difference on how much you enjoy driving it IME

 

[wag1]

Im not really that worried. I just want it to work. I just have this disgusting feeling in the pit of my stomach its going to drop a valve or something while its on song

 

[Chip-mk1]

Well lets hope not, but doesnt sound very confindence inspiring so far.

 

[Will.]

High 5! Impressive stuff. Looking forward to the result.

 

[wag1]

Had another good off-boost running in session today. Still tappetty, still a fewminor niggles. Got more prepared for mapping on Friday. Hopefully Dave Walker doesnt mind an exhaust knock as I havnt got access to a welder between now and friday!

 

[.Stevo.C.]

I can imagine this being an animal to drive once it's mapped. They are nippy enough in standard form lol.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I can imagine this being an animal to drive once it's mapped. They are nippy enough in standard form lol.

Should go very quickly, lets just hope the boxes dont too, lol

 

[wag1]

I bought the new box to give me that little bit of extra confidence before it says tada to me!

yes animal is one of those words I would very much like to associate with the car.

It just seems like my luck, there was an R32 and a rangey sport up for play time today but i couldnt join in

 

[Russ_16v]

I had a new box from Renault on my F4R'd valver - lasted 22k before it blew 2nd gear syncro id like to think it was a one off and yours will be bettercmate!

Any more pictures of the rest of the car mate?

 

[Stu.]

love williams's! This will be a weapon! Watching with interest mate

 

[wag1]

Not a massive amount of pictures, mainly during the build when I had bits off for weld and underseal. I have a habit of smashing upiPhones so any pictures I take are lucky to make it past the phones memory!

It is as clean as it looks, been resprayed within the last 5 years i would say. However some has been bodged. So once Ive had a bit of enjoyment from the engine I will more than likely strip it all back out again and have some extensive work done on the chassis. One of the lads who works for me is a good welder so at least I can save some pennies.

 

[Chip-mk1]

I had a new box from Renault on my F4R'd valver - lasted 22k before it blew 2nd gear syncro id like to think it was a one off and yours will be bettercmate!

Any more pictures of the rest of the car mate?

I'd be over the moon if I got 22K out of a box on one of these engines.

Have been through 8 boxes in my valver, although the current 172 one in there is going strong still after about 3k, so by far the most ive had out of one yet.
Thats just using secondhand boxes though.

Such a shame. the f7r and f4r are great engines but the boxes really let them down

Not sure if its torque or revs that kills them though, am beginning to think perhaps its the revs (possibly throwing the oil off from the bits that need it when the input shaft is spending a lot of time spinning at 7K+) as the MWMsport turbo car is still working fine on its original box despite 260bhp and 250ftlb

 

[wag1]

Im mildy confident that by the time I blow up a brand new JC5 I could have another rebuilt Jc5 with a quaiffe and some sort of shot peened and polished internals ready to go.

Luckily I don't do track days and TBH ill only go to pod once with it just to get a figure. how true this remains will be one to find out maybe.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Im mildy confident that by the time I blow up a brand new JC5 I could have another rebuilt Jc5 with a quaiffe and some sort of shot peened and polished internals ready to go.

Luckily I don't do track days and TBH ill only go to pod once with it just to get a figure. how true this remains will be one to find out maybe.

On the road I dont think it will be an issue TBH, so fingers crossed.

Quaiffe certainly transforms the handling so a good investment in that respect aside from being stronger too.

 

[wag1]

My biggest worry is how unprotected the sump is. I never cared when the engine owed me nothing. Now it owes me a deposit ona decent sized 3 bed semi... Bit teeth gritting

 

[Chip-mk1]

Houses must be cheap new you, unless that engine owes you 30K, lol

But yes I know what you mean, why not just fit a sump guard though?

 

[wag1]

I cant say ive ever heard of one mate!

 

[Chip-mk1]

I cant say ive ever heard of one mate!

It goes under the sump so that if you whack anything it hits that instead, would be pretty easy to make for a clio because you have the subframe you can easily attach it to.

This sort of thing:
http://atlasteam.gr/eshop/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=588&language=en

You could make your own if you wished though, nothing very complex about it, its just a bent bit of faily thick ally with some holes in it really!

 

[wag1]

Fair do's. Thats definately been something nagging at me. I scraped the sump of my old golf and that was standard ride height down these back lanes before. Bit of a nightmare when I try and leave the house with a clean clio for a meet!

 

[Kieran..]

epic stuff!

 

[Zmaster2k]

Aye cracked my sump... Luckily I saw I'd done it in time...and did not lasting damage

Omp do an off the shelf sump guard dude...but it's a tad expensive...

 

[Chip-mk1]

I cracked the sump on my old f7p.

Chemical metalled it, and it was fine for another 6 months till I put an F7R in, lol
Would NOT try the same trick on an engine of any value though, but as an F7P is coincidentally worth exactly 7p, it made sense.

 

[Zmaster2k]

FLol!!! Couldn't even sell my old lump

Nothing wrong with her either ended up scrapping it lol

 

[.Stevo.C.]

How much did the new gearbox set you back from Renault?

 

[wag1]

a little over 1450

i could have got a service exchange for around 800 with a surcharge

 

[matty w]

a little over 1450

i could have got a service exchange for around 800 with a surcharge

God they've gone up in price I remember buying one from Renault for about £500

 

[2 live]

nice build mate. as above though, the box price seems a little ott. they were £600 exchange last time i checked. i then did the same as chip, bought, or should that be brought on here??, 2nd hand ones. had varying degrees of reliability from them, all around the £100 mark. some lasted a while, others not so long lol. but i did hammer every single 1 of them. hard launches, full throttle changes, thousands of 1/4 runs over the period of a few years

 

[Jaff.]

Holy crap! Could have done a bag box conversion for that price

Nice car tho will be interesting to see what it makes. My build is very very similar!

 

[wag1]

Yea Ive also had a service exchange, which has a bolt in diff, that was around 850 and i got a 175 surcharge back from that. If im completely honest I wanted a brand new one just to make myself feel better.

The service exchange ones have a particular code on them (cant remember though).

Ive left out so many things from the thread that went pete tong, f**k ups, hold ups, upsets etc that I didnt want to give ANYTHING a reason to break within my first year.

Trust me, I would be suicidal if it had. When you look at some of the costings of the parts combined with the balls ups. I think ill be looking at about £500 per BHP per year!

Building this engine has genuinely been a nightmare and only since ive had it back at my yard, where I live, so that noother interfering muppet canget involved, have I started to enjoy building it!

 

[Chip-mk1]

Most service exchange parts contain an element of secondhand parts, at least you know yours is "all new" I guess.

Sod paying that for it though, you must have far deeper pockets than me. lol

 

[wag1]

Update for today

Had a small issues with the map sensor, basically the live wire and signal wire were the wrong way round. Definately confused me this one. It had set itself onover-ride at -0.65bar

So took it out for its first boosted drive. Turned actuator down to 7psi, and basically tried my best not to go too silly with it.

Couldnt help one or two goes, by fcuk its so quick I cant really compare it. Very similar to a mates Saphire Cossie

Few silly issues, still papping myself though. Definately knackered all four spark plugs though. Over fuel is a bit naughty really. Last oil dump tomorrow night, will stick something like 10-40 or 10-50 semi synthetic in it.

Bring on friday