Would you pay 5k for a Williams

[_Tom]

Im not sure if i can?

Basically at 2 oclock tomos im going to look at a Williams 3. Its has a FRSH and loads of receipts to have the arches done, new sunroof, magnex exhaust, mapable chipped ecu, coilovers, 12 months mot, 6 months rax, everything. The guy said if i want one i honestly wont find a better condition willy for a long time. He also says its only done 3k in the past 2 years as he only drives it as a second car.

From what has been said it should be a good car but should i spend 5k on a N reg car with 80k? What will the depreceation be like? Bearing in mind ill keep it mint.

Ive also spoken to people who know the car and they all say it mint. Its got 17s on at the mo though.

 

[eves]

sounds pricey mate, but if its in that good condition, youd be silly to pay £3.5-£4k on one thats not soo mint and will need the work done on it!



Still £5k is a lotta money for an old car

 

[® Andy]

Yep ... not too far off 172 territory! £5k vs. £6.5k for a W/X plate 172 with less miles!

 

[_Tom]

Quote: Originally posted by Andy D on 23 December 2004

Yep ... not too far off 172 territory! £5k vs. £6.5k for a W/X plate 172 with less miles!

Thats my thoughts exactly! Not that i would want a mk1 172 though. (No Offence)

It just seems that my options are the likes of a 106 GTi, Punto GT, ect and the willy is much nicer. SHould have never sold my valver! lol

 

[jongsr4]

i might have paid it if it was a standard example, but i dont think id pay 5k for a modified one, modifiying just always devalues the car

 

[Winston]

If it a peach it could save you money in the long run, as you no to well from owning a valver

 

[TheJesus]

Tom, thing about the Williams is that their value is dependent on their condition, 172s aint, so where all the newer Clios will drop the price like a stone the Williams will stay the same. Some cases the price will go up, but prices have remained pretty constant for the past couple of years. Id say thats a good price by the sounds of it, as long as he has the original wheels anyway. mmmm coilovers...

 

[Iain C]

not unless it had done very low miles !

 

[Richyrich69]

I bought my williams 14 months ago for £4400, and have spent probably another 500 on replacing the steering column, brake hoses tyres breaks disks and pads etc and starting to get signs of needing to do the arches soon. if it really is in good condition may well save you money, although may be able to banter the price down on a modified one?

 

[_Tom]

Hmm i think im gunna have to take this car to pieces when i look at it.

Its on autotrader at the mo. Its up for 5.5k but i said on the phone all i have is 5k. He said if i was to offer him that tomos hed probs sell as he wants the room in his garage for his new car.

 

[GeeUK]

Id save up and get a MK2 PH2 172

 

[DAVE_RSi]

if i were you i might even try to offer him just under 5k as he may take it

personally i wouldnt do it, its mainly about the status "u own a williams" but for 5k, ouch, thats alot for an old car

see how it goes but dont jump into anything at the time if u have any doubts at all

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

You shouldnt lose any money on it at all if you keep it in good nick. One advantage of a Willy.

A 172 will continue to depreciate though. You factor that depreciation, the extra cost, and the maintenance and I bet (if the willys in as good nick as it seems) that the Willy would save you a packet over 3yrs or so.

 

[_Tom]

Nah i wouldnt dave. Any doubts id just walk away.

Merv - Yeah thats the thing if its a goodun i should be fine. Badun and im royaly f**ked! lol

Think i may get a RAC check if i want it.

 

[Ben H]

I sold No. 123 for £5,250 and think I might have got more if I were the type of person to hold on for the best price. It was on 63k and was spotless in all regards.

Id pay that again...possibly more to get the right example.

For many people, the equation will be that they see an "expensive" Williams and decide to buy a newer/more reliable 172 for similar money. Other people - with their heart set on a Williams - will disregard this.

I bet you can buy quite a few 2003 Audi TTs for under £20k, but youd find it hard to find a really nice original 1983 Quattro for less. Not quite the same, but a relevant comparison I think.

 

[Lagerlout]

I pay that for a MINT 1 but not a 3.

No matter how mint you keep it, it will lose money as you put more miles on it. The only way to keep the price is to hardly increase the miles. Once its gone over the mysterious 100k mark, it will be worth much less. The 100k mark is some kind of psychological barrier when looking to buy a car....

 

[BigBoreBri]

I paid well over £6k last year for my williams...

That was immaculate tho with only 18k on the clock!!!!

Sold it about 6 months ago for over £6k too...

Still gutted its gone!

 

[benhwolves]

way too much IMO, basically a ten year old car which no matter how well looked after will still have problems and will not hold its value. I read on the saxo site that someone acquired an 03 reg VTS with 30k miles for 4.5k which as an example is far better value.

Plus its been modded....... If it was totally standard then it would be better but still not worth 5k

 

[GazTwo]

Much cheaper, lower miles, standard and both could be just as good condition as the 5.5k or better

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.asp?modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&make=RENAULT&model=CLIO&variant=williams&keywords=&min_pr=3000&max_pr=5000&mileage=5&agerange=&postcode=wa5+1bj&miles=1500&max_records=50&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCHhttp://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.asp?modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&make=RENAULT&model=CLIO&variant=williams&keywords=&min_pr=3000&max_pr=5000&mileage=5&agerange=&postcode=wa5+1bj&miles=1500&max_records=50&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH

 

[_Tom]

Well its this one:- http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/cars_search.asp?modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&make=RENAULT&model=CLIO&variant=Williams&keywords=&min_pr=75&max_pr=&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=BS21+6JW&miles=20&max_records=200&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCHHere

 

[Willy Williams]

Quote: Originally posted by Ben H on 23 December 2004


I sold No. 123 for £5,250 and think I might have got more if I were the type of person to hold on for the best price. It was on 63k and was spotless in all regards.

Id pay that again...possibly more to get the right example.

For many people, the equation will be that they see an "expensive" Williams and decide to buy a newer/more reliable 172 for similar money. Other people - with their heart set on a Williams - will disregard this.

I bet you can buy quite a few 2003 Audi TTs for under £20k, but youd find it hard to find a really nice original 1983 Quattro for less. Not quite the same, but a relevant comparison I think.








Ben is quite right



For someone to say a Williams is not worth 5.5k, shows:

1. Nievety and lack of knowledge on classic cars

2. Lack of understanding of basic economics such as supply and demand

3. A self centred view of the world (i wouldnt pay 5.5k so it cant be worth it)

4. Lack of knowledge of current car market prices

The fact is that as a car becomes rarer, the best examples will appreciate (after first depreciating). A williams is worth whatever someone will pay. I beleive King off here paid 10k or something for Williams 0002 and has since had it valued and insured for alot more than that. So to say that a Williams isnt worth 5.5k is simply delusional (look at the real world, these cars sell for those sorts of prices).

[Edited by Willy Williams on 23 December 2004 at 3:22pm]

 

[Swervin_Mervin]

I honestly believe a well cared for Willy would hold its value, but that would be more assured with a 1.

The 100k mark would not matter to the kind of buyer that would look at a Willy these days. Buyers are more likely to become enthusiasts in the coming years as the Willy will enter classic status.

 

[TheJesus]

Quote: Originally posted by hoe261 on 23 December 2004


way too much IMO, basically a ten year old car which no matter how well looked after will still have problems and will not hold its value. I read on the saxo site that someone acquired an 03 reg VTS with 30k miles for 4.5k which as an example is far better value.

Plus its been modded....... If it was totally standard then it would be better but still not worth 5k

no offense but I dont think you understand basics of supply and demand, as people are willing to pay that much and more, so does this mean the car is not worth that? as for not holding its value, well simply put, your wrong, as thats what a mint one will cost, doesnt matter which number or how many miles they have as people still pay a premium to own a rare car. the saxo may well be better value, but it doesnt look as good and is common as muck in comparison. people pay silly money for old Ferraris, you may not think they are worth it, but the fact people are willing to pay the high tag suggests otherwise.

 

[Lagerlout]

Quote: Originally posted by Willy Williams on 23 December 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Ben H on 23 December 2004


I sold No. 123 for £5,250 and think I might have got more if I were the type of person to hold on for the best price. It was on 63k and was spotless in all regards.

Id pay that again...possibly more to get the right example.

For many people, the equation will be that they see an "expensive" Williams and decide to buy a newer/more reliable 172 for similar money. Other people - with their heart set on a Williams - will disregard this.

I bet you can buy quite a few 2003 Audi TTs for under £20k, but youd find it hard to find a really nice original 1983 Quattro for less. Not quite the same, but a relevant comparison I think.








Ben is quite right



For someone to say a Williams is not worth 5.5k, shows:

1. Nievety and lack of knowledge on classic cars

2. Lack of understanding of basic economics such as supply and demand

3. A self centred view of the world (i wouldnt pay 5.5k so it cant be worth it)

4. Lack of knowledge of current car market prices

The fact is that as a car becomes rarer, the best examples will appreciate (after first depreciating). A williams is worth whatever someone will pay. I beleive King off here paid 10k or something for Williams 0002 and has since had it valued and insured for alot more than that. So to say that a Williams isnt worth 5.5k is simply delusional (look at the real world, these cars sell for those sorts of prices).

[Edited by Willy Williams on 23 December 2004 at 3:22pm]

Ive no doubt that there are Williams out there that are worth 5.5k and above. I was talking about this car in particular, and after looking at what other Williams have gone for on Auto trader, this car is not worth 5.5k.

And as for supply and demand, the demand for a 10 year old french hatch isnt that great. Some stay for sale for a long time - there are not hoardes of people queueing up to buy them as you might have us believe... There have been several people on here and other forums who have been trying to sell their Williams Clio for quite a while.....

But the Williams is a (future) classic. So prices will inevitably go up. But only the plaqued Williams 1s will see any major increase in price. Which is why Im after one in the New Year!!


And whose this King guy your on about?

 

[Tucks]

I paid 5300 for mine 12 months ago(willy2 47k m-reg),Hardly spent anything on it repair wise since then,apart from the services.Its a difficult car to value I know! If ya asking would I buy again at the same price.....I honestly would,ive owned a lot of cars and its the only one I think id say that about! The wheels on the one yor looking at look pretty smart imo.

 

[cat171]

to be honest that williams does seem a lot & it looks poo with those alloys on it !
to be honest i reckon you could find a better example for 5k.

 

[TheJesus]

Quote: Originally posted by lagerlout1 on 23 December 2004


Ive no doubt that there are Williams out there that are worth 5.5k and above. I was talking about this car in particular, and after looking at what other Williams have gone for on Auto trader, this car is not worth 5.5k.

And as for supply and demand, the demand for a 10 year old french hatch isnt that great. Some stay for sale for a long time - there are not hoardes of people queueing up to buy them as you might have us believe... There have been several people on here and other forums who have been trying to sell their Williams Clio for quite a while.....

But the Williams is a (future) classic. So prices will inevitably go up. But only the plaqued Williams 1s will see any major increase in price. Which is why Im after one in the New Year!!


And whose this King guy your on about?

The demand has and always will be high for a DECENT Williams. Im testing the water as I plan to sell mine if I can afford to and so far have had 6 people ask about the car and 4 are willing to pay my asking price of £5k+ for a Williams 2. The ones still on autotrader etc probably have something wrong with them, or have been modified. A good example of a rare car will always fetch better money that most people would like to believe and with the Williams being the last of its line it wont suffer like the 172s have done.

 

[will 2]

my GF paid £4495 for her will 2 with 90000 on a 95 model vgc, not needing much if any work to do on it.

but on the other hand i paid £2500 for my will 3 with 110000 on the clock for a 96 model, but i need to do quite a few jobs including replacing the bonnet for a new one and possibly giving it a full respray, interior is mint though.

 

[Lagerlout]

Quote: Originally posted by TheJesus on 23 December 2004

Quote: Originally posted by lagerlout1 on 23 December 2004


Ive no doubt that there are Williams out there that are worth 5.5k and above. I was talking about this car in particular, and after looking at what other Williams have gone for on Auto trader, this car is not worth 5.5k.

And as for supply and demand, the demand for a 10 year old french hatch isnt that great. Some stay for sale for a long time - there are not hoardes of people queueing up to buy them as you might have us believe... There have been several people on here and other forums who have been trying to sell their Williams Clio for quite a while.....

But the Williams is a (future) classic. So prices will inevitably go up. But only the plaqued Williams 1s will see any major increase in price. Which is why Im after one in the New Year!!


And whose this King guy your on about?

The demand has and always will be high for a DECENT Williams. Im testing the water as I plan to sell mine if I can afford to and so far have had 6 people ask about the car and 4 are willing to pay my asking price of £5k+ for a Williams 2. The ones still on autotrader etc probably have something wrong with them, or have been modified. A good example of a rare car will always fetch better money that most people would like to believe and with the Williams being the last of its line it wont suffer like the 172s have done.

Theres a guy on williamsclio.co.uk whos been trying to sell his Willy 1 for ages and thats a minter.

The car on the link above is a mint, low mile standard Williams 3 and its up for £3495.

 

[stan*]

id go for the 1 in the link for £3900

generally, alloys like that=boyracer=ragged IMO

A williams is worth the kind of money you have (5k) if you want/anyone wants to pay it....which they do.

 

[Mike Wright]

"For someone to say a Williams is not worth 5.5k, shows:

1. Nievety and lack of knowledge on classic cars

2. Lack of understanding of basic economics such as supply and demand

3. A self centred view of the world (i wouldnt pay 5.5k so it cant be worth it)

4. Lack of knowledge of current car market prices

The fact is that as a car becomes rarer, the best examples will appreciate (after first depreciating). A williams is worth whatever someone will pay. I beleive King off here paid 10k or something for Williams 0002 and has since had it valued and insured for alot more than that. So to say that a Williams isnt worth 5.5k is simply delusional (look at the real world, these cars sell for those sorts of prices).2


What a complete load of crap!...

 

[007]

I sold my Williams with 39,000 on the clock for £5,500 earlier this year - sold within 2 hours of being advertised.

Really should have been looking for £6+ but I live in the Highlands so less people usually= less value.

I think a Williams is a better hot hatch than a 172 IMO anyway - and a lot of people feel the same. While there are people like that in the world Willies will demand a decent price.

Once all cars get old its a pretty level playing field and the rarer possibly better car will always be worth more.

You may think the 172 is better and thats not my point - my point is age is irrelevant to some people - mostly Hot Hatch enthusiasts.

I certainly dont think a Williams with 80k is worth anymore than £3k but there you go.

I have been trying to buy a bloody Super Nintendo recently and prices are rising as they become rarer.

2 words sum it all up:

Market forces

 

[Willy Williams]

Quote: Originally posted by Mike Wright on 23 December 2004





"For someone to say a Williams is not worth 5.5k, shows:

1. Nievety and lack of knowledge on classic cars

2. Lack of understanding of basic economics such as supply and demand

3. A self centred view of the world (i wouldnt pay 5.5k so it cant be worth it)

4. Lack of knowledge of current car market prices

The fact is that as a car becomes rarer, the best examples will appreciate (after first depreciating). A williams is worth whatever someone will pay. I beleive King off here paid 10k or something for Williams 0002 and has since had it valued and insured for alot more than that. So to say that a Williams isnt worth 5.5k is simply delusional (look at the real world, these cars sell for those sorts of prices).2


What a complete load of crap!...

Please point out what is complete crap?

There are two car markets.

1. A market for normal cars. Here the buyer is the general public (most people on this forum). In this market the big factor is depreciation. As a car gets older and accumulates miles its value depreciates, because the general population wants cars with low miles and which are new. Market force here is that there are plenty of cars too choose from so demand is outstripped by supply, hence there is rapid depreciation.

2. A classic car market. Here the buyer is a collector. He doesnt care about age or miles but more on the TYPE of car (it must forfill certain criteria to become a classic) and the condition of the car (ie it must resemble as near to possible as it was originally supplied). As certain cars become rarer their value appreciates, because the collector wants cars that are hard to get hold of, that nobody else owns or that have a history in racing. Market forces here is that demand completely outstrips supply, hence there is appreciation and usually the rich collector is the only one who can afford the best classics.

If a Williams is worth 5.5k really depends on which camp you happen to fall into, and what you plan to do to the car. Sure, Frank Williams Clio Williams 0001 is just a 11 year old hatch back to the first category. But to the collector it is a masterpiece worth many 10s of thousands of pounds.

 

[Lagerlout]

I certainly dont think a Williams with 80k is worth anymore than £3k but there you go.

So you agree with me then. The Williams above is not worth 5.5k

And who mentioned 172s? I certainly didnt. I couldnt give a rats ass how much my 172 may or may not be worth. I can afford to lose the money. And I dont care whether or not YOU think its better than a Williams. Are all (ex) Williams owners so paranoid about the 172?!!?


[Edited by lagerlout1 on 23 December 2004 at 7:12pm]

 

[Willy Williams]

Quote: Originally posted by lagerlout1 on 23 December 2004

Quote: Originally posted by TheJesus on 23 December 2004

Quote: Originally posted by lagerlout1 on 23 December 2004


Ive no doubt that there are Williams out there that are worth 5.5k and above. I was talking about this car in particular, and after looking at what other Williams have gone for on Auto trader, this car is not worth 5.5k.

And as for supply and demand, the demand for a 10 year old french hatch isnt that great. Some stay for sale for a long time - there are not hoardes of people queueing up to buy them as you might have us believe... There have been several people on here and other forums who have been trying to sell their Williams Clio for quite a while.....

But the Williams is a (future) classic. So prices will inevitably go up. But only the plaqued Williams 1s will see any major increase in price. Which is why Im after one in the New Year!!


And whose this King guy your on about?

The demand has and always will be high for a DECENT Williams. Im testing the water as I plan to sell mine if I can afford to and so far have had 6 people ask about the car and 4 are willing to pay my asking price of £5k+ for a Williams 2. The ones still on autotrader etc probably have something wrong with them, or have been modified. A good example of a rare car will always fetch better money that most people would like to believe and with the Williams being the last of its line it wont suffer like the 172s have done.

Theres a guy on williamsclio.co.uk whos been trying to sell his Willy 1 for ages and thats a minter.

The car on the link above is a mint, low mile standard Williams 3 and its up for £3495.







Its been resprayed.

All Williams can be made to look in very good condition in pictures.

 

[Martin]

I think the Williams 3 in the link is definatly overpriced I just wouldnt buy a williams with aftermarket wheels on anyway! 80k and modified ...Id say 3.5k would be a fair price.

 

[JayR]

Im 50-50 weather to put my valver up after xmas and get a williams as i can now afford to do the insurance!!

However i expect to pay anything between 3.5k and 5k for one as i want a minter of a willy 3!!

I paid lots for my valver 7mths ago and have carried on putting money into it both maintenance wise and mods but i wanted a gooden and wanted keep it 100%!!

If i were you mate id go for the willy or maybe look at the other 2 one of the previous posters has pointed out (if you go for the one your to look at change the wheels back tho) Like previous peeps have said and as your probs all to aware of, if this car is mint and you keep it mint in a 2 years or whenever you come to sell the car it will more than likely go for more than you paid for it as lets face it true minters are getting rarer by the day!!


[Edited by JayR on 23 December 2004 at 8:01pm]

 

[_Tom]

Well im going to look at it tomos anyway and he said hed take 5k not 5.5 down the phone already anyway. Lets see hey!

Oh and he has the standards and theyd be back on!

 

[007]

Quote: Originally posted by lagerlout1 on 23 December 2004


I certainly dont think a Williams with 80k is worth anymore than £3k but there you go.

So you agree with me then. The Williams above is not worth 5.5k

And who mentioned 172s? I certainly didnt. I couldnt give a rats ass how much my 172 may or may not be worth. I can afford to lose the money. And I dont care whether or not YOU think its better than a Williams. Are all (ex) Williams owners so paranoid about the 172?!!?


[Edited by lagerlout1 on 23 December 2004 at 7:12pm]

You need to chill a bit LMAO

I never at any point said that the Williams in question was worth £5,500

Paranoid - you should maybe look the word up as your reaction certainly smells closer to it than my post.

I never had a go at the 172 I was using it as a comparason as I guess I could have the 16v.

I really couldnt care less one way or the other to be honest - maybe you need some time away from that keyboard to calm down?

 

[Daz]

For 5k, Id expect it to be mint (no paint etc..) and to be mechanically sound with FSH.. on about 50-80k.. at a rough guess.. but again, to the right person, whos prepared to pay more for the perfect car.. then, Im sure theyd be prepared to go a bit higher.