172 / 182 oil pump mod worthwhileness & bleeding

[Iamhiding]

I’ll be replacing a suspected failing oil pump later in the week. 148k engine, Howling bottom end like the pump is struggling when cold with the thickness of the cold oil and vibrations from the oil filter. No oil light popping up and the noise goes away once warm. Very subtle valve tick once warm too. Here’s hoping it’s just the pump starting to go. Still need to check oil pressure.

just wondering if it’s worthwhile modifying the pressure relief valve by adjusting the seat depth for the clip before fitting And what kind of pressure increase would you expect to see per mm?

long term I’ll be building a low boost setup or going cams etc so it might be a sensible supporting mod whilst i’m at it.

regarding bleeding the pump is there a preferred method with these? It’s not in my workshop manual.

Cheers for any input,
B.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

How do you know its the oil pump? I've never heard a howling oil pump, at least not with out all kinds of other awful 'your fucked' noises....

I was recently in a similar quandary regarding the oil pump mods... What I would personally do is ask your self this:
"Has it just lasted for 148k... Have I given it regular death" if the answer is yes then leave the pump mod alone, seems to be proving they work just fine.

Good luck!

 

[Iamhiding]

How do you know its the oil pump? I've never heard a howling oil pump, at least not with out all kinds of other awful 'your fucked' noises....

I was recently in a similar quandary regarding the oil pump mods... What I would personally do is ask your self this:
"Has it just lasted for 148k... Have I given it regular death" if the answer is yes then leave the pump mod alone, seems to be proving they work just fine.

Good luck!

alrighty man, yeah I suspect it’s the issue but I can’t 100% say so. Descriptive words are subjective, was toying with words, overplaying a whine with how Harrowing and guttural a whine feels when it’s coming from your engine and you suffer mechanical sympathy that and the filters acting like a speaker and projecting it, making it sound worse than it likely is.

based on it being a whirring/harmonic/screechy whine, having been round the engine with a stethoscope and finding it strongest at the oil filter (like the filter is resonating the noise, initially I thought it was alternator/ps pump noise). considering the typical ways bottom end elements act when they fail I think it’s fair to suspect the pump. Yet again my 1st hand experience with engines is limited, doing bike valve clearances is as far as I’ve gone physically but I’ve got a decent grasp of how they operate. Throwing a pump in at minimal cost vs the potential alternative failures or outcome of not replacing pump leading to rebuilding an engine, definitely the right call. That’s my thoughts and deduction anyway.

completely agree with your logic, no doubt it’s had a hard life over the years and it’s going strong at 148k, ive kept it serviced for the last 20-30k but ultimately it’s treated as a budget B road basher / track build. For me I’d rather make the most out of what I have.

What I’m thinking is that with it being a higher mileage engine and as such bearing clearances being further into their lifespan which will lower pressures in my understanding it might make sense to increase the pressure to help keep a good film between surfaces to help it keep going for longer, that and it might make sense as a supporting mod for when I start putting power in / increasing strain. However like I’ve said I’m not an engine builder, these are just my thoughts.

issue is to do the research myself to gain figures I’d Need to first replace the pump, pressure test it, modify it 0.5-1mm, assemble it, pressure test again And repeat as necessary. I love to tinker but it’s costly in time and resources for something that might make no impact. Whereas here’s hoping someone in the know can shed some light on it being worthwhile to do as I’m doing the pump anyway

Excuse the long winded writing

 

[Darren S]

Have you had the sump off at all?

My oil pickup was clogged with silicone when it had the engine rebuild recently. How/why/when that happened is anyone's guess - but in the past it looks like an oil seep has been plugged using silicone and that over time has been ingested by the pickup.

How I've got away without serious oil starvation an ceasing issues is beyond me....

 

[Robbie Corbett]

Right, dude - try this logic:

If your removing the sump and suspect your pump may be failing (not saying it hasn't), AND your engine is pretty high miles then you would be a toolbox to not also change, or at the VERY least inspect your main and big end bearings.......

 

[Iamhiding]

Have you had the sump off at all?

My oil pickup was clogged with silicone when it had the engine rebuild recently. How/why/when that happened is anyone's guess - but in the past it looks like an oil seep has been plugged using silicone and that over time has been ingested by the pickup.

How I've got away without serious oil starvation an ceasing issues is beyond me....

hadn't had it off previous to replacing the pump, was pleasantly Surprised by there being no crap in the sump, was fairly clean and pickup was clear too. Half expected to find it full of metal flake knowing my luck

thats awesome you got away with that, I’ve seen a few pickups rammed with silicone to be fair. i was always told when using the stuff to be canny and let it go a wee bit tacky before fitting a cover so it doesn’t all just smoosh out the sides and do that.

 

[Iamhiding]

Right, dude - try this logic:

If your removing the sump and suspect your pump may be failing (not saying it hasn't), AND your engine is pretty high miles then you would be a toolbox to not also change, or at the VERY least inspect your main and big end bearings.......

I get you. Honestly time as it’s my daily and space but also a lack of experience with engines as I didn’t even think to check, would’ve been a good shout to at least see how they’re doing. My workshops for bikes and there just isn’t space for a car so 9/10 I’m outside On gravel swearing in the dark.

Had the plan in my head that if it wasn’t the oil pump I’d be pulling the motor out for a full inspection anyway and replace everything it needed or pick up another engine to run whilst I decide what I want to do power wise and build the old one to suit dependant on its state. Never assembled an engine before but eager to put my hand to it. Gives me a reason to get my leaky rocker Cover sealed finally too.

hit a hiccup with modifying the pump, was going to install the new one, run the old oil back through not to waste my new stuff, get a pressure reading on it before moving stripping it back down to move the prv a mm and repeat so at least I wasn’t Making blind pressure changes... but Ive lost or lent my pressure gauge so that was that.

anyway, new oil pump cured the problem, I was about 90% certain it was that but what a relief. Internally the gears were fouling their case a wee bit but no deep marring. Teeth were fine where they mesh, The shaft felt fine. Didn’t really see any Reason for the pump to be making noise other than that light marring. Who knows but the noise is gone with the new pump.

im still curious about playing with the pressure as apparently these engines are known for having low pressure issues, can’t quantify that statement with my experience though. I’ll document my findings but it’ll be as and when I need to make changes. If anyone has anything technical to input I’d be interested to hear as there just isn’t any easy to find info

 

[Iamhiding]

Just realised in the title and 1st post I said bleeding the pump Hmm someone had brakes on their mind.

not sure what the correct procedure for priming is but I filled the pump prior to fitting. disconnected coilPack / fuel pump connectors So it couldn’t start and cranked the engine with the starter in a few 10 second bursts to get oil moving before starting it up as normal and just keeping an eye on the oil pressure idiot light.

 

[JamesBryan]

On my oil gauge it reads 17/18psi at 85c on idle, with 14psi at 120c.

 

[gambit]

Instead of starting a new thread i thought i'd ask here: I'm after an oil pump and will modify the pressure relief valve as well. Having said that has anyone used the Pierberg oil pump below or should just go genuine renault?

7.07919.00.0 - Oil pump

7.07919.00.0 - Oil pump manufactured by PIERBURG applicable for the RENAULT. This oil pump is fully compatible with original part numbers 15 01 005 65R, 15 01 054 28R, and 77 01 669 290. Order PIERBURG oil pump online and find many other parts and accessories that fit your car, bike or truck.

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