172 Cup Track/Fast Road car.

[Cup_Phil]

Been keeping myself busy this last week

Found a cheap battery tray on ebay so set about moving the battery to the boot

Chuffed with it - car isn't quite as back end happy any more which is a good thing and after attacking the gearbox mount bit with an angle grinder I found a nice place to mount the ECU. Induction kit is temporary, I'm planning a long tube to mount the filter behind the headlight at some point. Need to get an oil breather filter though


I'm doing Mallory Park this weekend and sadly have nowhere to mount a camera due to not having the cage yet. So I nipped to B&Q and bought some bits and bodged this together

Actually works pretty well for an hours work with a junior hacksaw LOL

Coilovers have all settled - had to raise the front back up - but here she is all finally ready for a bit of track abuse (I even pre-coated the front wheels in brake dust doing a few test drives out lol)

 

[Sir_Dave]

Are you sure on that battery mount Phil, im not sure i'd trust that little strap to stop the battery flying forwards & taking your head off!!!

Personally, id want it fully enclosed.

Good work on the camera mount though, thats the type of thing id do, if i could be bothered

 

[daveski]

Where did you get the junction box from to move the battery?

As Dave mentioned I would look at another way of securing the battery, bolt it down maybe?

 

[Gray]

I would not trust that battery one bit!

If that strap frays and snaps, mid corner etc.


You are going to have 10kg~ of plastic and acid flying around your car... Which will end in tears!!!

 

[Gray]

Where did you get the junction box from to move the battery?

Old bmws, mercedes, volvo etc.

Or their is an electrical component place in Ilkeston, I got mine from there with all the cabling and connectors for £25

 

[daveski]

Cheers mate, any chance you could remember where? Think I might need to tap into your knowledge more often

 

[Gray]

Cheers mate, any chance you could remember where? Think I might need to tap into your knowledge more often

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/VWP-onlinestore/home/homepage.php

Anytime mate

 

[daveski]

Cheers . Sorry for spamming your thread Fuzzy

 

[AdamR]

Camera mount looks sweet Is it bolted into the seat belt mounts?

I would possibly get a couple of bits of flat plate steel and wrap them round the battery though, bolting them into the same place your tray is!

 

[ElkWorks]

what time track session you got at mallory tomorrow?

im on in Session F

 

[Cup_Phil]

I'm on in session G!!

The battery mount I hit with a hammer - it's going nowhere. I was a bit iffy about the strap too but it's doubled over and pretty secure
I don't want to spend too much money on it as I'm planning on swapping it for a race battery at some point

Camera thing does bolt into the seatbelt mounts yeah

And the junction box is actually a fuse box - takes a megafuse (currently a 175amp one) so that if the cable in the car shorts out anywhere the alternator won't just ground to earth it'll blow a fuse first
Cost £12 for the box and fuse from a local auto-electricians and it's awesome!

 

[Cup_Phil]

Are you sure on that battery mount Phil, im not sure i'd trust that little strap to stop the battery flying forwards & taking your head off!!!

That's also the main reason it's on the passengers side LOL

 

[ElkWorks]

i'll try and get some photos for you if i can then bud!

 

[Cup_Phil]

That'd be awesome

I'm taking my dslr - always annoys me that I take lots of good pics of other people then none of my own lol

 

[ElkWorks]

try and take some of my shitheap then if you can im only on point and shoot, but it aint a bad camera. we'll see what we can come up with.

 

[Earpl]

Are you sure on that battery mount Phil, im not sure i'd trust that little strap to stop the battery flying forwards & taking your head off!!!

Personally, id want it fully enclosed.

Good work on the camera mount though, thats the type of thing id do, if i could be bothered

Does the battery have the vent pipe on it? If not I'd be more concerned with spare wheel well filling up with hydrogen lol. Awesome car btw track slags are for winners

 

[Cup_Phil]

Earpl - no it doesn't lol
But then I can't drive with the windows up anyway because the exhaust deafens me lol

As I said it's just temporary for PPC and FCS so I can get some weight over the back wheels - then it's being replaced for a solid battery

 

[Cup_Phil]

Video from Mallory Park yesterday


New suspension was brilliant - car was much more balanced and the back end felt better planted

The brakes were utterly s**t - completely killed them on the first session. By the time I got to the 2nd session (the youtube one) I had to stomp on them to get them to do anything
To be fair though for £20 from halfords I didn't expect much better lol

Need DS2500's before FCS ...

 

[ElkWorks]

was good to meet you yesterday man, car sounds good, and looked great out on track!

 

[Cup_Phil]

Brembo High-Carbon Discs and Ferodo DS2500's
Both ordered yesterday afternoon and both arrived first thing this morning
Good old demon tweeks - and massive thanks to "G 172" from here for the discs

 

[Cup_Phil]

Quick video from early on in the 3hr session at FCS

Not the best driving - been a while since I've done Rockingham



Oh and Uniroyal Rainsports might be good on the road - but worst I've ever had on track. The front are completely shot now - they were new 2 months ago
Front right one is bald on the outside half. They squeeled and the f**king car under-steered every corner.

I think I'm gonna have to get R888's next

 

[Missing Link]

Good read,

Going back to your battery install, I'd have put the fuse at the other end near the battery, You may have enclosed your battery cable and "p" clipped it down by now but the pic shows it threaded through the box section.

If that chaffs through, you will have a great little bonfire in that back corner.

God forbid you ever bin it, But if that panel gets pushed in and the metal cuts into that cable then there will be nothing to catch it.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yeah don't worry mate - I'm putting another one of those megafuse boxes in the boot - so it's fused at both ends.
It was only £15 for the box and fuse so be daft not too

 

[Missing Link]

Well done that man, :approve:

 

[Sir_Dave]

I just took a call from my old Cup Phil, he's asking you to heal & toe ....

 

[Cup_Phil]

I think you mean she - and f**k that

I'm struggling to be honest mate to drive the clio fast - the fooking thing understeers like a b**ch
In the old 106 you could come up to a corner - lift off, tail went happy - aim round the corner and nail it and it pulled itself out with speed

The clio seems to be - brake early to get speed down - aim for apex, turn in and understeer like f**k, lift off to try to get some grip on the front end, see the exit and apply half throttle, wheels spin up and produce more oversteer - lift off more to try to stop yourself running out on to the grass and come out the bend slow as f**k

I'm pretty close to selling it and going back to an s1 106 with a throttle bodied engine - but I'm trying to be patient and assuming I'm just not driving the clio properly

They are nose heavy understeering bitches though - even with 2degrees of neg. camber and billies on it

 

[Cupman29]

I've got 2 degrees of -ve camber on the front until I got used to it but the garage that is setting mine up says you're better making small changes to the set up and explore the limits of each set up.

In the wet mine understeers but I know its the way I drive as after some tuition on how to take corners in the wet the lines are completely different from the dry and it makes a massive difference. The harder something is to master the more rewarding it is when you crack it!

 

[Sir_Dave]

I'm struggling to be honest mate to drive the clio fast - the fooking thing understeers like a b**ch(

Have you had the coilovers setup properly?

Trophy is set up for oversteer. I turn in, lift, backend comes round, floor it, move onto next corner. Thats -2.8 camber on the front, -1.8 on the rear, front toe slightly out. I do have a Whiteline (set to hard) though. Its not quite the LOOS happy monster than the saxo was, but very similar, just with more grip!

Im surprised about yours tbh, cant say Ollie, Nick etc have problems like that with their cups, in fact, i never had those problems with your cup lol. Perhaps the tyres are cr4p?

 

[AdamR]

I'm struggling to be honest mate to drive the clio fast - the fooking thing understeers like a b**ch

Decent tyres + RARB + good geo/corner weighting = done!

I've got a good balance on mine now, can sling it into the turns under balanced throttle and it'll be very neutral, very very slight understeer which is instantly cured by a small lift. Might stiffen the RARB a touch to see if that dials it out... Gotta be patient with the throttle on the way out though - good tip I got was imagine that you have strings from your steering wheel at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock to the loud pedal - more you turn the wheel, less you can apply the throttle.

Similar subject - my mate changed from T1Rs to Rainsports and finds them poor in the dry too (same 'symptoms' as you), but MUCH better in the wet. I think the tread blocks are too 'thin' and spaced out on the Uniroyals for hard use in the dry. From what you've said (and my relatively limited knowledge) I reckon your car will be transformed with a new set of tyres.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Yes I've come to the conclusion that Uniroyal Rainsports are a bag of s**t
They got hot and just fell apart - the strips of tread on them are now completely missing ... I'll post some pics up later

I've got Rear ARB - The coilovers are setup sensibly with the rear slighly higher (10-15mm) than the front
I think the tracking needs setting up to some toe out and I definitely need better tyres!!

 

[AdamR]

Yeah that's what I thought might happen, tread blocks too small They are apparently REALLY good in the wet though which I guess is what they are designed for, so don't give them too much of a hrd time, hehe.

For the setup, from memory I think most people tend to run the rear lower than the front? Mine's like that anyway... I can see the theory though - more load over the front, more grip, less understeer. However if your tyres are shredded I don't think anything'll help really.

I reckon try some new tyres then see how it goes dude!

 

[Pryor]

100% get some semi slick, huge difference.

 

[Cup_Phil]

Cheers guys - gonna order some R888's and then get the suspension geometry setup at Tour De Force (or Track Group as it's now called)

 

[Cup_Phil]

Second video finally uploaded from later on in the same 3hr session

 

[hhh182]

really like your thread mate, just starting my own project and id dream of getting my cup to half the stage you have with yours as for the understeer dont give up, im interested in how i can solve it if i get to this stage lol

 

[Cup_Phil]

My feelings currently are the rainsports are a s**t track tyre

I'm ordering some Federal 595RSR's this week and booking an open pit track session at Blyton for a full day end of July
The car is getting booked in for a full geometry setup before then

I'll report back (with videos lol) of how it handles then

Then silverstone in september - then it's going in the garage for some engine work over winter and to get the cage welded in etc...

 

[Cup_Phil]

FCS Pics arrived

That's probably picture heavy enough LOL - rest are on my blog http://www.phil-barker.com/2011/06/rockingham-track-photos/

 

[john lloyd]

Looks like rob took some nice pics Phil.

 

[Chris205]

Just watched the vids there, looks like it could definetely benefit from some better road tyres, Hankook Rs2's, Yoko AD08's or R888's.

My cup was set up with 2 degrees negative camber and slight toe out, it never span the tyres up coming out of any corner in second

 

[Cup_Phil]

Thanks Chris - I suspect my toe is miles out as I lowered the car on the coilies and never got it re-setup DOH

Been a while since I've updated - and it's been a nightmare to be honest

Bought a full set of powerflex bushes (wishbones and ARB), new ball joints, and a Pure Motorsport solid top mount and strut brace kit

Took the wishbones off and pressed the old bushes out - now can't get the new ones in. So I've left them at a garage to do and weld in place

Went to fit the solid top mounts and unfortunately cross threaded a nut on the top of one of my billies. And being in a rush (and a moron) used an impact gun to assemble them - so that was properly welded on
Got it off now and the thread was fairly knackered but I think still useable - just got to order a new nut from Pure Motorsport as one of mine is wrecked - then I can finish that
Drilled the strut tops and fitted the strut brace

Also fitted my ARB bushes last night. OH MY GOD started at 5pm and was still doing them at 11pm - worst job I've ever done on a car. Trying to get the ARB bush brackets back on with the new bushes in is insane lol

Oh well - onwards and upwards. Should all be back together by the weekend then getting tracking set back up - and going for a test blast. Hopefully will have cured the understeer

Next on the list... safety devices cage and quaiffe diff

Also went out and bought a bargain run-around - £400 for a 306 1.4 meridian 2001 with a years mot

This has taken the stress off loads for finishing the clio - think I'll take the dashboard out this weekend and strip the last of the sound deadening out - and start attacking the loom