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182 oil-ordered





Just been onto Debra and ordered the Elf, still only £64.01 delivered, 24 litres :D

Funny but when i rang at first the bloke that answered asked for my phone number so she could ring me back, and as soon as i said 0161, he said isnt that Manchester, we dont deliver that far.

So it seems you really do have to speak to Debra to get it :confused:

[Edited by chris182 on 1/17/2005 5:42:20 PM]

BTW thanks for the info, saved a fortune.
 


Yeah Chris you really do have to speak to Debz............I dont think its anything in particular just that she seems to be the only who is prepared to accomadate us................cause they dont normally deal with the public ;)

Also just to repeat that this totally above board complete with invoice including vat.............I only mention this cause Ive been asked before.

Cya Stu
 

M.C..

ClioSport Club Member


i spoke to sombody else first because she said Debra was on the phone and when i asked her about it she said do i have an account etc because if you dont you cant have it then Debra came on the phone and it was sorted in a couple of mins top bird
 


Why PM it here you go............Tel. 01977 603363..................and just ask for Debra.

Also if youre not sure which oil to use in your particular car just ask Debz to have a word with the technical department theyll soon tell you.

Ive also asked about other types of oil so here are some more prices: -

Total Quartz 9000 5 w 30 = £1.89 per litre.

Toatl Quartz 9000 5 w 40 = £2.00 per litre.

Elf Evolution SXR 0 w 30 = £2.40 per litre.

All plus £10 delivery.

Cya Stu


[Edited by stusV6 on 17 January 2005 at 8:37pm]
 


Quote: Originally posted by Gary G on 17 January 2005

Anyone here know off hand which is best for the 182?




Yeah thatll be Elf Excellium LDX 5 w 40................just ask Debz shell confirm it eh.

Cya Stu

PS you could always ask Liam182 he has 48 litres of it.


[Edited by stusV6 on 17 January 2005 at 9:17pm]
 


Not meaning to sound funny or controversial but does anyone know how good this oil is?

Looking at the price (even for a larger amount) is would appear to be Group III (hydrocracked) basestocks and not a Group IV or V (pao/ester) proper synthetic.

Just playing devils advocate, its your car and money at the end of the day.

If someone can find what the VI Index, HTHS and NOACK numbers are I can make some comparisons.

Cheers,

Simon.

PS. Remember this?

A word of caution – You get what you pay for!



Below is an article written by John Rowland, Silkolene/Fuchs Chief R & D Chemist for 40 years.



Quote:



Costs of synthetics vary considerably. The most expensive are the “Ester” types originally only used in jet engines. These cost 6 to 10 times more than high quality mineral oils.



The cheapest synthetics are not really synthetic at all, from a chemists point of view. These are in fact specially refined light viscosity mineral oils known as “hydrocracked”. These have some advantages over equivalent mineral oils, particularly in lower viscosity motor oils such as 5w-30 or other oils with a low “W” rating such as 5w-50 etc and they cost about 1.5 times more than good quality mineral fractions.



We use several different grades of this base oil, where appropriate. This is the “synthetic” which is always used in cheap oils that are labelled “synthetic”. Yes it’s a cruel world, you get what you pay for!



Now, you may ask, why are these special mineral oils called “synthetic”?



Well, it was all sorted in a legal battle that took place in the USA about ten years ago. Sound reasons (including evidence from a Nobel Prize winning chemist) were disregarded and the final ruling was that certain mineral bases that had undergone extra chemical treatments could be called “synthetic”.



Needless to say, the marketing executives wet their knickers with pure delight! They realised that this meant, and still does, that the critical buzz-word “synthetic” could be printed on a can of cheap oil provided that the contents included a few percent of “hydrocracked” mineral oil, at a cost of quite literally a few pence.



So, the chemistry of “synthetics” is complex and so is the politics!



The economics are very simple. If you like the look of a smart well-marketed can with “synthetic” printed on it, fair enough, it will not cost you a lot; and now you know why this is the case. But, if you drive a high performance car, and you intend to keep it for several years, and maybe do the odd “track day”, then you need a genuine Ester/PAO (Poly Alpha Olefin) synthetic oil.



This oil costs more money to buy, because it costs us a lot of money to make, very simply, you always get what you pay for!



Unquote:
 
  Ziel Nurburgring


Uh, ok. Can you put it into words a person that doesnt look like the professor out back to the future and an IQ below 300 might understand.

Is it going to be the same argument as Optimax/95 ron petrol?
 

Has

  RS 182 - Black Gold


in my understanding, the Elf is not as good quality as the silkolene (ester) based???



based on reading above article|
 
  Ford Fiesta


Quote: Originally posted by stusV6 on 17 January 2005


Quote: Originally posted by Gary G on 17 January 2005

Anyone here know off hand which is best for the 182?




Yeah thatll be Elf Excellium LDX 5 w 40................just ask Debz shell confirm it eh.

Cya Stu

PS you could always ask Liam182 he has 48 litres of it.


[Edited by stusV6 on 17 January 2005 at 9:17pm]


Glad I contacted Debra now. Basically I was after some elf oil and she was my local depot I got the number from elf/Fina/Total UK.

Luckily it seems I spoke to Debra and she managed to source me some. I did ask her if she minded me giving you lot her details and she said no.

Both me and Stu reccommend her highly.

Stu dont have 48litres anymore, use 4.5 at 6K oil change, still got plenty, plenty left though ;-) should last for years.

As for the quality all I know is it is a fully synhetic oil and the top one the renaultsport suggest for their cars. The 5w40 elf excellium ldx that is. That is good enough for me. Debra gets you it dirt cheap but buy it from a dealer, (if they can get it as most just stick 10w40 in your cars!) and it is very expensive.

The elf site I linked ot before no longer works regarding this oil, thats was:

http://www.lubricants.elf.com/cgi-bin/frames/frames.pl?site=en&part=/part2&chap=/part2/chap1&file=/part2/chap1/sub/00000805.htm&teasing=off&sub=1http://www.lubricants.elf.com/cgi-bin/frames/frames.pl?site=en&part=/part2&chap=/part2/chap1&file=/part2/chap1/sub/00000805.htm&teasing=off&sub=1

but found this link too not quite as much info though:

http://www.elfmoto.com/elfauto/elfexcellium5w40.phphttp://www.elfmoto.com/elfauto/elfexcellium5w40.php
 


Well all i can say is, its what reno tell you to use, so that will do for me.

Not saying reno are the be all and end all, but they do make formula 1 engines so should know a thing or two, more than me anyway.

And thanks again to Liam and Stu for the contact No. which i have now passed on, to me thats what cliosport is all about, sharing knowledge.

Looks like Debra is going to be a busy girl
 


Ok, there are different types of basestocks that can be called synthetics although some are just actually highly refined mineral oils which are called hydrocracked (group III) but true synthetics are not petroleum based, they are made in laboratories by chemists and unlike petroleum basestocks the molecules are of a uniform size. These are PAO and Esters which are Group IV and V basestocks and are far more superior lubricants.

Here is an explanation of the different types which goes some way to explaining why an oil labelled synthetic may not actually be a true one.

“HYDROCRACKED” (HC) or MOLECULARLY CONVERTED (MC) BASESTOCKS

There are many petroleum oils available on the market that are so pure and refined, they can now be passed off as synthetics.

They are not made from true synthetic basestocks (at least not in the way that synthetics have traditionally been defined), but they have so little in common with traditional petroleum basestocks, it is really somewhat silly to classify them as petroleum oils.

Petroleum oil basestocks can be put through a super-extreme refining process called “hydrocracking”. In some cases, as in the case of one particular name-brand "synthetic" oil, these highly refined petroleum basestocks can actually be termed and sold as "synthetic".

It is completely legal for lubricants manufacturers to label these oils as "synthetic".

These are extremely high performance petroleum basestocks, but they are not truly synthetic the way that most people understand the term and will not necessarily perform to the same level as a premium synthetic oil like PAO (poly alfa olefins) or Esters.



Hydrocracking involves changing the actual structure of many of the oil basestock molecules by breaking and fragmenting different molecular structures into far more stable ones. This results in a basestock which has far better thermal and oxidative stability as well as a better ability to maintain proper viscosity through a wide temperature range - when compared to a typical petroleum basestock.



Although contaminants are still present, and these are still petroleum basestocks, contamination is minimal and performance characteristics are high. This process also can turn a wider range of crude oil stock into well-performing petroleum lubricant basestocks.



TYPES OF SYNTHETIC BASESTOCKS



Synthetic basestocks are not all the same. There are few different chemical types that may be used as synthetic basestock fluids. There are only three that are seen commonly in automotive applications:



Polyalphaolefins (PAOs)

These are the most common synthetic basestocks used in the US and in Europe. In fact, many synthetics on the market use PAO basestocks exclusively. PAOs are also called synthesized hydrocarbons and contain absolutely no wax, metals, sulfur or phosphorous. Viscosity indexes for nearly all PAOs are around 150, and they have extremely low pour points (normally below –40 degrees F). Although PAOs are also very thermally stable, there are a couple of drawbacks to using PAO basestocks. One drawback to using PAOs is that they are not as oxidatively stable as other synthetics. But, when properly additized, oxidative stability can be achieved.



Diesters

These synthetic basestocks offer many of the same benefits of PAOs but are more varied in structure. Therefore, their performance characteristics vary more than PAOs do. Nevertheless, if chosen carefully, diesters generally provide better pour points than PAOs (about -60 to -80 degrees F) and are a little more oxidatively stable when properly additized.

Diesters also have very good inherent solvency characteristics which means that not only do they burn cleanly, they also clean out deposits left behind by other lubricants - even without the aid of detergency additives.

They do have one extra benefit though, they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), PAO’s are not “polar”, they are “inert”.



Polyolesters

Similar to diesters, but slightly more complex. Greater range of pour points and viscosity indexes than diesters, but some polyolester basestocks will outperform diesters with pour points as low as -90 degrees F and viscosity indexes as high as 160 (without VI additive improvers). They are also “polar”.



Other synthetic basestocks exist but are not nearly as widely used as those above - especially in automotive type applications. Most synthetics on the market will use a single PAO basestock combined with an adequate additive package to provide a medium quality synthetic lubricant. However, PAO basestocks are not all the same. Their final lubricating characteristics depend on the chemical reactions used to create them.



Premium quality synthetics will blend more than one "species" of PAO and/or will blend these PAO basestocks with a certain amount of diester or polyolester in order to create a basestock which combines all of the relative benefits of these different basestocks.



This requires a great deal of experience and expertise. As a result, such basestock blending is rare within the synthetic lubricants industry and only done by very experienced companies. In addition, although such blending creates extremely high quality synthetic oils, they dont come cheap. You get what you pay for!

If this is too technical Im sorry but its a technical subject.

Cheers

Simon


[Edited by oilman on 19 January 2005 at 6:04pm]
 


If you are talking quality and performance the following order should be observed:

Best = Fully synthetic (Group IV PAO and Group V Esters)

Second best = Fully/Semi-synthetic (Group III hydrocracked oils)

Third = Mineral oils (Group II mineral basestocks)

This should explain:

Basestock categories and descriptions

All oils are comprised of basestocks and additives. Basestocks make up the majority of the finished product and represent between 75-95%.



Not all basestocks are derived from petroleum, in fact the better quality ones are synthetics made in laboratories by chemists specifically designed for the application for which they are intended.



Basestocks are classified in 5 Groups as follows:



Group I



These are derived from petroleum and are the least refined. These are used in a small amount of automotive oils where the applications are not demanding.



Group II



These are derived from petroleum and are mainly used in mineral automotive oils. Their performance is acceptable with regards to wear, thermal stability and oxidation stability but not so good at lower temperatures.



Group III



These are derived from petroleum but are the most refined of the mineral oil basestocks. They are not chemically engineered like synthetics but offer the highest level of performance of all the petroleum basestocks. They are also known as “hydrocracked” or “molecularly modified” basestocks.

They are usually labelled/marketed as synthetic or semi-synthetic oils and make up a very high percentage of the oils retailed today.



Group IV



These are polyalphaolefins known as PAO and are chemically manufactured rather than being dug out of the ground. These basestocks have excellent stability in both hot and cold temperatures and give superior protection due to their uniform molecules.



Group V



These special basestocks are also chemically engineered but are not PAO.

The main types used in automotive oils are diesters and polyolesters. Like the group IV basestocks they have uniform molecules and give superior performance and protection over petroleum basestocks. These special stocks are used in all aviation engines due to their stability and durability. Esters are also polar (electro statically attracted to metal surfaces) which has great benefits. They are usually blended with Group IV stocks rather than being used exclusively.



It is common practice for oil companies to blend different basestocks to achieve a certain specification, performance or cost. The blending of group IV and V produces lubricants with the best overall performance which cannot be matched by any of the petroleum basestock groups.


Cheers

Simon






[Edited by oilman on 20 January 2005 at 9:18am]
 


I would say based on price its Group III.

The HTHS number would confirm this if we could get hold of it.

Cheers

Simon
 
  Golf Mk6 Oil Burner


Anyone close to bolton in manchester want to go 1/2 on some oil for their 172/182 ? ....

excellium ldx 5w40

Cheers

Moz
 
  Ford Fiesta


Quote: Originally posted by oilman on 20 January 2005


I would say based on price its Group III.

The HTHS number would confirm this if we could get hold of it.

Cheers

Simon


where will the HTHS number be listed?
 


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