ABS- Good or Bad

[TB1]

Simon, thats a bit unrealistic isnt it

At 50mph your covering virtually 15yards a second and add that to your reaction time you would hit the obsitcal with or without abs 99% of the time anyway and even if you swerved around it you would probably put the car severely out of shape causing you to (a) hit the obsticle with another part of the car (b) spin out and hit something else anyway.

Tony

 

[TB1]

Simon,

Now what i should point out is that if you are 80 yards from the obsticle then you would be able to stop in a straight line with or without ABS as you left a big enough gap to anticipate something happening.



Tony

 

[Steveold]

lol.... your all crazy..... Give me 2 cars one with abs and one with out both exactly the same and i could stop quicker with abs... plus as previous posts i could also advoid things whilst braking

 

[KDF]

Quote: Originally posted by TB1 on 15 December 2002


Simon, thats a bit unrealistic isnt it

At 50mph your covering virtually 15yards a second and add that to your reaction time you would hit the obsitcal with or without abs 99% of the time anyway and even if you swerved around it you would probably put the car severely out of shape causing you to (a) hit the obsticle with another part of the car (b) spin out and hit something else anyway.

Tony







Not if your me.. A.K.A. Superman !!

 

[TB1]

LOL!

Tony

 

[Nick Read]

This is so exciting - and Ive never even driven an ABS equipped car! Ive got the perfect answer though, an ABS switch. Equip every car with ABS and an override switch on the steering wheel. Then as youre about to crash, you can press the button to turn off the ABS and take your chance without it if you want. Or you could have it the other way round, drive without ABS most of the time and then as you are about to stack it, turn the ABS on to save your bacon?

 

[Pillesnoppen]

Top Gear ROADtested the Cup vs the Cooper S( which has ABS ) a couple of months ago.

The testers are very experienced at their work, and set out to different things, such as acceleration and braking tests.

When carrying out braking tests from 70mph to 0mph, they are on a dedicated track, and set out to brake as well as possible.

Results were as follows: Cooper S stopped in 47.1 metres. Cup stopped in 60.2 metres.

All this depite desperately to shorten that braking distance under testing conditions by professionals.

That is a 13 metre difference, ie huge.

And with regards to all us "younger" drivers wanting ABS as opposed to the "older"( read "better" ) drivers who are so fantastically good that they always drive with the attention that they use on a track or a ss, that is pure bs. Im 36. And I still have respect for "the road". Thanks to all the mates who have passed away in RTAs over the years. ABS can be a life saver, not just because you are young, but because EVERYBODY makes mistakes. There are no ifs and buts here. I get sick and tire of hearing people blowing off about how good they are in a car whatever the time, place or circumstance. I have yet to come across a single person, professional driver or not, who NEVER makes mistakes. I am a reasonable driver on and off track, and I learned to drive on gravel. But I am not as good as my friend who made a simple judging mistake and nearly killed himself and the oncoming driver. He is a semiprofessional rally driver, btw.

ABS is no good in rallying. It is not particularly hot on circuit driving either, but it is without a shadow of doubt a good thing on Britains overcrowded, poorly surfaced and usually wet roads.

 

[Pillesnoppen]

Posted by Nick: "This is so exciting - and Ive never even driven an ABS equipped car! Ive got the perfect answer though, an ABS switch. Equip every car with ABS and an override switch on the steering wheel. Then as youre about to crash, you can press the button to turn off the ABS and take your chance without it if you want. Or you could have it the other way round, drive without ABS most of the time and then as you are about to stack it, turn the ABS on to save your bacon?"

Now thats a brilliant idea!

 

[TB1]

I can safely say that from 120mph to 0 in my car i did not at any stage activate the ABS shoving my foot to the floor on a slightly damp surface....

The reason.... excellent tyres, great brakes and pads (ok maybe not the best brakes and pads but they do the job being brembo!)

Tony

 

[BenR]

not bothered to read all 500 posts on here......

But ABS is ESSENTIAL on the rd........i bet schumy doesnt mind it in his rd car.

anyway, You actually concentrate less on the track as there are less variables and less of the unknown, on the track, you know the corner, direction, surface (flags) blah blah blah..........its far easier to get away with it on the track.

On the rd, the curb is only 2meters away, and lampost another 2.....so, i think ill stick with ABS.........i can sleep longer on the Mway that way.......

ANyway, who cares, it only kicks in when the sh*t is flying.......and people(women) who close their eyes when it all goes pear shaped........like the lady who went head on into me last yr.........thanks for trying lady.

 

[RSTDL]

All pants - depends how good u are at braking really and u should never have to emergency stop if ur sticking to the speed limits and keeping proper safe driving distances - is everyone on here scared to drive a car with no ABS (lack of confidence and driving ability me thinks) There is no deer over here but plenty of cows. I stop for cows or if Im clever flick the handbrake around them but I never stop for pigeons, crows or pigs! A non ABS car has the same brakes as an ABS car - the computer sensor thingy tells how hard ur braking and complements accordingly! Ill take anyone on in the wet or dry and stop in the same distance and time (incorporating a few donuts and an Ace Ventura style overhead 360 degree flip at the same time!!!

 

[RobFenn]

Cupsize, your letting your ego getting in front of the point of ABS. ABS allows you to steer whilst breaking. Thats the major point of it. Its not made to let you stop quicker. It also lets retarded drivers just step on the pedal to break, as theyre lazy and thats what they demand.

It would be pointless taking someone else on in a brake test as you have no direct comparison, Youd need a cup with ABS for a fair fight. Anyway, for example say me and you were driving at 100mph, in the wet, id bet my ass id stop better than you. I mean better as in stopping in a straight line and in a much shorter distance (if i was in a 172). I know what cups are like in the wet under breaking

 

[RobFenn]

meant braking *doh*

 

[KDF]

Quote: Originally posted by CUPSIZE? on 23 December 2002

All pants - depends how good u are at braking really and u should never have to emergency stop if ur sticking to the speed limits and keeping proper safe driving distances - is everyone on here scared to drive a car with no ABS (lack of confidence and driving ability me thinks) There is no deer over here but plenty of cows. I stop for cows or if Im clever flick the handbrake around them but I never stop for pigeons, crows or pigs! A non ABS car has the same brakes as an ABS car - the computer sensor thingy tells how hard ur braking and complements accordingly! Ill take anyone on in the wet or dry and stop in the same distance and time (incorporating a few donuts and an Ace Ventura style overhead 360 degree flip at the same time!!!




ABS does not sense how hard you are breaking, ABS senses if a wheel has locked up, it then intervens and releases this wheel.

You can keep to the speed limit all you want, and keep your safe driving distance.. if someone pulls out of a junction infront of you... I can quite confidently put my foot on the break peddle hard, and just steer around the obstacle.

I am scared to drive a car without ABS in the wet now, yes. Having now experienced the wonder that is ABS I would not buy a car without it, previous to this car I have been driving non ABS cars for 7 years.

 

[RSTDL]

Rob - without meaning to offend - I dont have an ego just many years of driving experience without a single scratch! And yes I hammer on most of the time! You drive a 1200 probably with limited driving experience (what age are you!) I drive a Cup and know exactly how they handle in the wet so if u were thrown into a 172 (having little or no experience of 172 horses) I bet YOUR ass I would stop in half the distance - simply down to driving experience. Its easy to stop a 1200 and in my books they have absolutely no need for ABS. i mean come on they werent built for performance? My 1600 has ABS, and in the wet I stop quicker, with no tail out action in the Cup - HOW? Advanced Driving School mate and having learned how to drive equally as well in a non ABS equipped car when called for!

 

[RSTDL]

No need to take any offense - non meant - its just a discussion remember but in the wend of the day I have faith inmy own ability to stop my car under all circumstances unless of course a car piles into the side of me or an accisdent happens due to the other drivers muck up! It doesnt matter how good a driver you are - its the other drivers you have to look out for!

 

[RobFenn]

Im 17, on road experience 7 months. Ive been racing for 5 years though, including van diemen single seaters, so id like to think i know my stuff when it comes to car control.

I agree that its the other people and road conditions which are the main problem but theres no excusing the fact that ABS saves lives, and so should be on every single road car. In my opinion, of course.

 

[TB1]

Its proven that ABS does not save lives, simple fact.

ABS equipped cars have as many if not more accidents than non ABS equipped cars, fact.

I have just gone out and bought a NONE ABS equipped car for my new job, and you lot would never buy one because you cannot live without it..... so how many of you have ACTUALLY activated your ABS?

Take into consideration that my car has 263bhp, has ABS and ive owned her for 32 months, i have activated the ABS ONCE! and that was in the snow....

Now figure this one out, you see a car that pulls out of the junction to your left, right in front of you (so you havnt considered the possibility that its going to do that?) and you brake and swerve, right into an on coming car..... your still going to have an accident, but you have put your faith into a gadget that makes you think you can do more than you actually can (and if you are running cheap tyres then your going to lock your wheels quicker as you loose traction faster!)

You do not need ABS on a car, you do need to improve your driving if your relying on it so much though!



Tony

 

[BenR]

um, thats the point...many people DO NOT have teh skill or natural talent to concienciously alter their brake pedal pressure to control locking wheels.

And not many people will go on an advanced driving course, and fewer will pass....if all were required.

I think the feature of ABS is great.........

I HAVE been racing for over 12 yrs now.......in cars with ABS and without. and although ABS does intervene, it does so in a good way. The driver can really dive into a corner, and if all else fails, can relly hump teh brakes and rely on them....its a safety feature....FACT.

Cupsize.....im very dissapointed that you think that way. ABS is almost essential on the rd, and no matter of experience (or what you think is eperience) will help you predict an accident. i know you are a decent bloke, and i dont want to start getting personal in anyway, so dont think i am.

Many real Racing drivers have been killed in rd crashes.....and try tell me taht they are no good at stopping. Im afraid you seem to need the lack of ABS to confirm your driving ability, which is false confidence. Where have proved your skill and awareness.......saying you can stop in 1/2 the distance is bull.......a car will stop as fast as it can stop, and abs just help take some of the guess work out of it.

your ability to break with no abs is nothing special, many old people still do it in non abs cars and have been doin it for ages. being able to stop wihtout locking the brakes is not a skill, its not a talent...it an ewssential part of driving, and if you cant, that is where ABS helps many people out.

oh, and there are jst as many peopl crashing with abs cause the proportion of cars in the UK with ABS is higher than without......

 

[petes]

CUPSIZE - why does a 172 need ABS and a 1.2 NOT need ABS?

 

[Nick Read]

well who would have thought this one would have run to 4 pages!?

lol Ben..."your ability to break with no abs is nothing special, many old people still do it in non abs cars and have been doin it for ages."

Yeah at the grand old age of 29 Ive been ploughing the brakes on the public roads for 13 years without ABS. Mainly cos all my cars have been old! ..sniff...

I just learnt to drive without ABS and Ive never ever driven an ABS equipped car so I probably dont know what Im missing. Sounds like a good idea to me though. Although when youve driven for a long time with normal locking brakes you do get a feel for how much you can cane them without locking up, a feeling you get from the weight of the car, the road surface, whether its dry or wet, the tyres Im using, how much Ive got in the boot etc.

Anyway Im still trying to convince my wife to change over the static seatbelts in her 66 Beetle for these new fangled inertia-reel jobs. Probably best to stick with the old statics though, it might encourage her to drive too fast if she knew that the belts would actually keep her in place if she had a crash...

 

[Eddd]

I love my Willy for the fact that it doesnt have ABS.

But I will say that ABS is a good thing and I wouldnt mind having a switchable system. Years ago, my Audi had a switch on the dash to disable the ABS.

I went off the road due to ABS years ago. I was driving a new M3 which was my first car with ABS. I was on a dirt road which I knew intimately doing a fair impression of a rally driver. There was about an inch of fresh snow lying on the dirt...when I stomped the brakes to cut down to the gravel, the ABS decided that it would override me. Damn, if that wasnt exciting as I spun the car sideways to scrub speed before going up an embankment backwards. Very little damage but a lesson learned...

I also almsot put an Evo III into the wall of my barn trying to execute a J turn in my yard. The ABS didnt want to lock the wheels on the gravel and just kept doing its thing as I head for the wall backwards. Guess I had forgotten the lesson...after all it was about 14 years later!

 

[RobFenn]

TB1 you dont need abs, you dont need airbags etc but they are there, and rightly so because the bad might just happen. EVERY person i know who drives have said if it werent for ABS i would of been in trouble by doing general motorway driving with people undercutting etc etc

An example for you TB1, i was driving down a local road at 36mph when a person pulled into a sideroad in front of me without looking. I had to brake and swerve onto the other side of the road otherwise i would of gone straight into the side of him. I had about one second to react, so instead of thinking "ooh must brake release brake release" i thought "f**kIMGOINGTODIE". Now sure, if there was a car on the otherside of the road i would be in trouble, but there wasnt and i carried on my merry way. Now in non-abs car i would of locked up and crashed. Simple. Thats why all road cars should have ABS.

The people who are against abs in this thread (correct me if im wrong) all have powerful cars, quite a bit of road driving experience and dont have ABS. Ill be nice and say you seem to be getting a bit defensive. If abs wasnt any help it wouldnt be on cars!!! Imagine all the manufacturing costs which would of been saved!

I was interested to see what people thought, but to be honest, and ill stick my neck out, if you dont think abs is worthwile, your f**king stupid.

 

[BenR]

haha...eddd, it sound like you need a tractor!!!!! barn, fields.........gravel rd!

humvee? LOL

rob, maybe they should have a black box type thing to record sounds in teh cocpit when ABS is activated.....we would all learn a few new swear words!

i think i screamed goose gobbling nutbar once...then thought what the hell did i say!" LOL

 

[RobFenn]

lol, they should have them theme park cameras where they take your picture just before you crash

http://www.novi.org/NoviHockey/2001-Photos/patrick-scary-face.jpg

 

[RobFenn]

dont worry, its not me lol

 

[KDF]

hehe lol @ that pic..

 

[TB1]

Rob,

The stupid people are the ones like you who rely on ABS, now, one of my cars has ABS, the other one doesnt, i would get in either one and drive it without bothering about ABS, now if you wont get in a none ABS equipped car then sorry, your driving sucks big style as you are RELYING on something and not your own skill.

ABS is meant to be a driving AID! nothing else, Airbags, seatbelts and side impact bars are for the safety of passengers/driver, ABS is NOT!

You state that you were driving at 36mph down a road, a car pulled out infront of you, i take it the road was a 40 zone then? You should have anticipated that there was a "Hazard" at the junction ahead, that person can do anything, you have to anticipate that but by the looks you didnt......

For me the topic meant is ABS good or bad..... well my answer is im not bothered, your answer would be good but its acutally bad as its something you cannot seem to live without, putting your trust in it rather than your own driving capabilities...... I fear you have answered and proved that in no doubt the answer isnt a positive one.

Tony

 

[DTWD]

Right, I drive a car without ABS. I sometimes come round a corner to find something in the road (tractor, combine (not this time of year) mud, cow, horse, young Lithuanian children, old people, Ladas, lorrys and numerouse other things. I live in the country and you see all sorts on the roads. Sometimes they appear in just a few seconds and you have to react instantly. I have had many occasion where I have put my foot down and thought "come on baby just a little bit quicker at braking if you dont mind". I have stopped before hitting anything everytime (apart from in scotland) but I felt like my car was on the edge of letting go everytime. Ok so that may be good driving, but I would have like to know that if all of a suden my wheels lock up I will have some help. If your doing 60mph down a straight road, then you round a corner doing 40. Then all of a suden there is a little sign at the side of the road "caution mud on road" you dab the brakes through the rest of the corner, now your doing 30. You exit the corner, your now running on a muddy wet tarmac road. Those nice fat alloy wheels with nice expensive tyres are gripping the road like glue. You round the next corner still doing 30. Then wham there is a cow in the road just litterally metres away from you. Your still in the corner, if you slam on the brakes your going to end up in that field with that big hairy bull. If you keep going a bit you might be able to get on the straight and brake before you hit the cow. But if you do that you have to brake beyond what you know the car can handle. You decided to take your chances with the cow. You brake, you know your not going to stop and thats a big smelly cow full of milk. Its going to end up in the cab sitting on you. So you press the break harder, your wheels lock up. Now all you have is a few feet untill crunch time. You say your goodbyes and then you hit the cow. The cows legs are taken away from it by the front of the car. Varoise physics forces are acted upon the cow and it is flung into the cab. Crushing you to death. ABS may not have stopped you hitting the cow, but it would have given you back braking power when you needed it the most. The last few feet of braking that might make the difference between life and death.

Thats what ABS is about. To say its not a safety feature is stupid. Big wide alloy wheels are a safety feature aswell. But you dont seem them as one. If something helps you control your car in an emergancy then its a must. Power steering is a driving aid, it helps you turn corners easier. In the envent of an accident your adrenaline levels will shoot up and you will turn that steering wheel no matter how heavy it is. But no matter how much adrenaline is pumping through your body, you cant pump that brake pedal 15 times a second.

Besides in most seriouse situations (probably beyond what most people have experienced here) the body stops thinking and goes onto instinct mode. From a very young age (from riding bikes) people have known that if you want to stop faster you brake harder. Now if your thinking straight and your wheels lock up you should release the brake and then reaply. But your not thinking striaght. Your not thinking, your body is running on auto-pilot and that deep routed thought pattern of "brake harder=stop quicker" will kick in. And your going to just litterally floor the brake pedal. The ABS on the other hand does thinks clearly.



Paul

 

[coolspot007007]

Has any one in a non ABS valver or Willy had it put in?

 

[TB1]

DTWD......

You are yet another "My car must be better if it has ABS" type person then?

The situation that you have just described above would have left you in EXACTLY the same position as a car without ABS.....

The reason why?

1. You relied on ABS to get you out of a situation rather than your driving skills.

2. You quoted one little bit here that states:- "ABS may not have stopped you hitting the cow, but it would have given you back braking power when you needed it the most" and you also stated this:- "caution mud on road" now any driver who thinks this really does need to be shot......

3. ABS DOESNT work on mud.

Tony

 

[TB1]

Right,

For all you people that think ABS is a safety feature and have the same thoughts about it stopping or getting you out of situations then think again....

As proven above, very few of you know actually anything about ABS.

Your only REAL advantage with ABS is in the wet, this is because it stops you locking your wheels so you can stop practically as quick as you could in the dry.

In the following conditions your car will actually be at a DISADVANTAGE with ABS..... Snow, Mud, Gravel, Ice (as no doubt some of you think this too would be stoppable on with ABS.....)

ABS is a drivers AID.

ABS is not a safety feature.

The biggest failing of drivers is that they RELY on drivers AIDS like ABS and EBD, you should NEVER rely on them, its you whos driving the car not ABS or EBD, if you have an accident its normally a DRIVER who causes it, its also normally caused due to LACK of CONCENTRATION on the behalf of the driver. Myself i think that many of the young drivers who feel that an ABS equipped car is a miracle (as you seem to think it is) and wouldnt drive a car without it, should actually BUY a car without it! If your driving is that BAD as you NEED ABS then i would definately go out and take more driving lessons! (i think alot of you must have bribed the driving instructors!)

Tony

PS, and you wonder why insurance for young drivers is so much..... sigh...

 

[Eddd]

Tony,

I will have to disagree with you.

You have a point about people relying on the ABS, but but and large, on any slippy surface, the ABs will save your arse.

I used to disable the ABS on my race car but found I was faster with it working. The F1 boys would be faster if they were allowed ABS now.

In an earlier post, I listed a couple of incidents where a non ABS car would have performed better, but those are exceptions to the rule.

ABS is a good thing.

 

[DTWD]

I mentioned the mud as just another thing that can be thrown up at you. Not really anything to do with the car letting go. The roads are never totally muddy. They are not mud tracks. There are just patches of mud. ie there is still plenty of road there. Have you never been down a country lane TB1?

Without ABS brakes on a normal dry road if you push the brake to hard they will lock. If the difference between life and death is a few extra feet of non locked braking then surely ABS is going to save your ass!

And I dont have ABS so I dont rely on it. I drive to what the conditions allow. But things dont always go as you expect them. You absoloutly cannot control or predict everything. So in the event of something happening its there if you need it.

Paul

 

[BenR]

ABS give you control when you need it, ABS can and will save your shorts from an extra wash when its needed.

INdeed, if you are activating ABS all teh time, you are exceedinthe capabilities of your baking system...back off abit.

TB1, you are extreemely arrogant to say you area a sh*t driver to need/use/rely on abs.

You must be an awful driver to need 4WD, traction control and a turbo.......all that fake speed.

ABS WILL work on mud as it has been tested on it and only works when the wheels lock or reach a certain deg of slip. I have seen a ABS motorbike vid where a he locked it on tarmac....skidded and fell over (test driver showing pure braking and nothing else, so dont start)...then with ABS on gravel, he stayed up merely because ABS gave him the ability to retain directional control.

ABS also saves the lesser drivers.........do you think manufaturers would advertise ABS for bad drivers only? NO.........

Im almost positive that you could not beat a + average driver round a track if he had the ability to rely on ABS to dive and hold a line far deeper than you could with no abs.........

 

[Louise]

Neither my Williams or Fiesta have abs, although I do have use of a 1.3 Fez with abs... mechanical kind though.

To b honest, Id like my cars to have abs, as I have locked up in them in the past.

Also MarkRS on this board wants to have a brake test between my Williams and his abs equipped FRST... would b interesting to see how much quicker he can stop in the wet....

 

[TB1]

Right....

Ben, i know where your coming from, i am not arrogant though, the fact is that you also sound like someone who relies on ABS......

Work this out though!

ABS and a muddy road, no matter how slippy the surface is, if one wheel cannot grip it WILL NOT grip, that wheel will let go, simple..... thus proving that you cannot drive without it...... That one wheel will still make your car slide, this is a fact, having no grip, ie leaves for instance, will still make your car slide..... this is the point, you lot are RELYING on the ABS to save you, it actually hinders you in more situations than you think......

The wet is THE only clear advantage ABS has over a non-ABS car, this is a fact, now if you understand what ABS was acutally designed for then you would agree with me (BTW it wasnt designed for cars, it was designed for aircraft so they wouldnt slide on wet runways).

Here is a proven point....

1. accident in a 306 GTi-6.... driving out of junction (T junc) blind r corner, lights on green, ABS equipped car, crashed as someone ran the red light, didnt see them until they were virtually on top of me, i was going 25mph at the time of impact, other driver was doing approx 40mph in a 30 zone.... airbag and pretentioners saved my life.

2. Wet road..... 65mph at 2.30am in the morning, had seen some guy flying off chasing an audi quattro in his clapped out celica with his 16yr old girlfriend.... comes round a corner 5 miles later, 2 lanes of a motorway over a 2 lane bridge, am in the lhs lane, 1.6ltr astra mk4, come face to face with the rear of a vectra estate (it was a blind corner due to the fact the road was sweeping right and the vectra/celica driver were 3-4 mins infront of me and couldnt be bothered to get out of their cars and slow traffic down) and having approx 30m to stop at 65mph in light drizzle i impacted the rear of the vectra estate as the rhs lane was blocked by the celica (side on so an impact whould have killed the passenger) and no room to swerve due to a 30foot drop so even ABS wouldnt have stopped the car in time.....

I HAVE been there, ABS cannot and will not get you out of your situations without you having an accident as most (ie 99.9% of the time) being too far gone to save yourself and even that .1% i doubt that any of you would get out of it......

It isnt a SAFETY feature, it ISNT a necessity as most of you think, it does hinder you more than a non-ABS fitted car yet most of you think you can save yourselves due to it..... this IS the point, you ARE relying on it to do so.... this IS the reason I dont approve as you never really appreciate the ability of your brakes, just the gadgets fitted to your car.... this is YOUR downfall.....

Im sorry if ive upset anyone but YOU ARE relying on ABS, not your driving skills, i dont mind driving a NON-ABS equipped cars, YOU LOT though are SCRARED of getting into anything WITHOUT ABS..... now thats SCARY!

(remembers the days when you were taught to brake passively in an emergency stop whilst taking driving lessons!).

Also can anyone tell me why (this is a HARD question BTW) the brake pedle vibrates (and its not because the ABS kicks in before you answer it!)

Tony

 

[TB1]

Oooooooops cant spell scared

 

[Eddd]

Some more examples of the contribution of ABS to safety:

By momentarily kicking in, it can alert the driver to slippy conditions. Driving along at night, you might not realise that the outside temp has dropped significantly until you come across some ice. You might not even notice that one or more wheels had locked the last time you braked. But if you have ABS, the telltale vibration will alert you to the situation. This happens all the time...

ABS not only helps you to stop the car in a shorter distance on any surface bar dry tarmac, but allows some semblence of steering control whilst you are decelerating. The ABS modulates the pressure better than any driver. It is banned in F1 for this very reason.

TB1s two crashes may have been unavoidable and ABS may not have contributed to his walking away, but there are lots of times when ABS has assisted me in avoiding a crash and I am sure there are others who have had the same experience. I would put the figure of avoidable accidents on which ABS played a significant role higher than .1% however. But I would be just guessing at a number...

 

[BenR]

TB1, your attitude is of arrogance........that is why you are proclaiming we RELY (you really love that word dont ya!) om ABS.

ANd your examples...completlely useless......im not saying that ABS will stop you where a noin abs equipped car wont......thats just plain silly.....

What i am saying is that it does give you the extra control in tricky or slick conditions. and where lesses drivers come into a predicament where it helps...it obviously IS a safety feature.

The nature of ABS will mean on leaves etc, when a wheel locks, it will release it to the point where some .....i.e. more......directional control can be kept than if you locked it on a non ABS equiped car.

Now, you say im scared of a non ABS car....i drive 75% of my (current) cars have no ABS.......and im fine without it.....but it does help.

From my early yrs of racing, i learnt the, i like to say, art of braking, in karting i had NO ABS and rear axle brakes only.....so slowing, fast, and controlled whilst setting teh kart up, as a 12yr old.....i would say even then i had more of an idea than you do right now.......

from all i have learnt, ABS is a GREAT feature to have on the rds, and possibly in amatuer or club level racing......it could save alot of pranged panels.

Im not trying to upset you or anybody either, and it certainly aint personal before we start grabbing throats! LOL

SO, all im saying is ABS is a good thing.......as the title asks.