Adeys F4RT Twingo GT

[Adey.]

Ive gone with them as I have them tbh and they will fit with everything in this budget build.

That said the inners sections/connections to the diff are the same size as 197 items and probably 172 at 26mm (ill measure some 172 shafts tomorrow) the outers are smaller at I think 23mm (i think the 172 is 25mm and 197 27mm, ill check). That said I don't think they will be an issue, they arnt skinny in terms of driveshafts and I'm not slapping much power through them. The outer CV joints are the only place i think it would have any problems but it wouldn't take too much to upgrade them.

 

[Adey.]

Right, some ups and downs today.

Made a start on the throttle body adapter, I need to do this to retain the GT TB but mate it up too the 225 inlet manifold. Marked it all out on some aluminium and it looks good though I've ran put of countersink screws so have stopped playing until they arrive.



Old Flywheel and clutch also arrived, now this was a gamble and I wasn't sure if it would work, it was purchased as it matches the gearbox and the hydro clutch. Unfortunately, even though it sits nicely on the crank the holes do not line up. So next setup will be a 172 flywheel, modded to accept an rs133 hydro clutch cover (if actually needed) with an uprated friction disk, probably a paddle or dual material type.

Anyway with everything here I needed just to line parts up I was still able to modify the block to accept the 5 speed box and its now ready for a test fit in the engine bay. All being well there I can strip it all back down, clean everything and generally try and make a decent job of it. fingers crossed it fits 😬



PMT SW Division in effect 👌🏻 moody Black and white pics as the place is such a shite hole at the moment.

 

[Adey.]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooo

Well its a tight fit to get in, its pretty much the same size bay as a Clio 2 but the access is shite, the engine sits under the window and the front is taller and narrower meaning you have no space to swing things around.

That said, it sits on the standard 172 upper mount, standard twingo GT gearbox mount and the cables seem to work fine for shifting gears. The driveshafts look good and the correct length though I cant really confirm that till finial fitting. There's space around everything for movement and the only thing it looks like I need to make is a dogbone mount as its a few inches out of line. Win in my book

Will be slowing down now as the next stages require me to start spending some more money

 

[Adey.]

Nothing major to report. I spent a little time this morning swapping out sensors form the D4ft to the F4rt so I'd have less wiring changes to do. All the threads were the same so that was easy. Loom wise the odd bit may need extending but again nothing extreme.

All being well I should have another clutch setup here to look at next week too so the engine will come back out once that's here.

 

[JohnRogers]

Nothing major to report. I spent a little time this morning swapping out sensors form the D4ft to the F4rt so I'd have less wiring changes to do. All the threads were the same so that was easy. Loom wise the odd bit may need extending but again nothing extreme.

All being well I should have another clutch setup here to look at next week too so the engine will come back out once that's here.

View attachment 1518906

was down to see carl and rigs on the weekend and he asked for the old clutch plate off my new engine little did i know it was for you! cant wait to see it up and running.

 

[Adey.]

was down to see carl and rigs on the weekend and he asked for the old clutch plate off my new engine little did i know it was for you! cant wait to see it up and running.

ahh nice one cheers man much appreciated 👍 I didn't want to buy a new one as 1, it might not fit and 2, if it does fit I want an uprated one anyway. You shall forever be part of the Pikey Mod Tuning build 😁👌🏻

 

[JohnRogers]

ahh nice one cheers man much appreciated 👍 I didn't want to buy a new one as 1, it might not fit and 2, if it does fit I want an uprated one anyway. You shall forever be part of the Pikey Mod Tuning build 😁👌🏻

no worries mate! word of the build must be getting around now you've opened the GT up to many opportunities now.

 

[Adey.]

Engine and box back out of the hole today hopefully for the final time. I've wrapped some of the brake pipes by the servo in a hope too keep them cooler once the downpipe is made. Short of removing the brake servo I'm not sure how I can create much more clearance at the back (yes I googled brake servo delete, my other car doesn't have one........) I could run a bonnet exit exhaust, that would sort things out nicely On a side note does anyone know where I could buy just the turbo outlet flange? The downpipe is currently my only major concern.

I've taken a look at the alternator bracket and luckily the smaller sized Twingo Alternator fits up perfectly, slightly smaller in size but already ran everything in the car including EPAS so should be still be perfectly rated to this setup as I cant see there been any increased load requirements? This allowed me to measure up a belt at a 7puk920 (ish) mm. I've opted to delete the lower idler but keep the upper tensioner roller to keep things tight. So both belts ordered up ready for a belt change, just need to borrow some timing tools.

Also re routed some of my fuel lines so they are tucked out of the way abit more, ill be running a rising rate fuel pressure regulator again as recommended by Scoff. I may put something more around these later in the day if engine/bay temps are high.

 

[Krarl]

@dann2707 knows where to get 225 turbo outlet flanges iirc?

Why not just get a sidewinder manifold made? 👀

 

[Adey.]

@dann2707 knows where to get 225 turbo outlet flanges iirc?

Why not just get a sidewinder manifold made? 👀

id have to use that thing called money for that.....!

Want to buy some nudes?..........

 

[Krarl]

id have to use that thing called money for that.....!

Want to buy some nudes?..........

Who of? 😂

 

[Adey.]

hmmm depends what your turn on is, hairy fat blokes......?

 

[Krarl]

hmmm depends what your turn on is, hairy fat blokes......?

Unfortunately I'm already a fat hairy bloke so no 😂

 

[Adey.]

PMT throttle body adapter wrapped up. Chomped out of some aluminium plate. This allows a GT Throttle body to bolt up to the 225 inlet manifold, utilises the stock gaskets either side. Another little thing finished up on the swap. Thanks for taking a look 👍🏻

 

[Adey.]

As a side note as the question was asked on Turborenault.co.uk, the 1.2 GT throttle body and the Megane 225 Throttle body ARE the same size internally. Both measure up at 41mm

GT 42mm at the opening but with a slight step to 41mm



225 41mm



Thanks Renault

 

[Adey.]

Little update which is a decent step forward but without actually doing anything. This does mean I can now move forward and order the correct parts.

So @JohnRogers donated a Twingo rs133 clutch cheers man (fitment looks identical to a clio 182 item) and a cover. The cover was the important part for me and I needed a hydraulic specific cover that fits a 172 flywheel. This is that gem. And seeming looks to be a very a unique renault part only fit to a few cars. From what I can see it is rs133 and renault wind 1.6 specific. The clio 3 with the same engine looks to have a bigger 220mm clutch setup which wouldn't work with my bodgery.

Normal bearing cover plate

Hydro bearing cover plate

All that's left there now is for me to source an uprated friction plate for a 133/182 to take a chunk more torque. Uprated covers arnt readily available that I can find but as the standard 182 clutch can take 220lbft im going in with fingers crossed I can get away with just an uprated disk. (might bite me in the ass down the line but we will see 🤞🏻)

Second up was a flipping huge 3 inch decat downpipe from Jon 👍🏻 for me to chop and bend into shape for the twingo.

Still waiting on the cambelt stuff to turn up but the planning can now move forwards.

 

[JohnRogers]

Lovely stuff! we are using a 182 plate for mine but sending it off to cg motorsport to have it uprated, maybe give them a shout for prices will save you some time further down the line dude.

 

[Adey.]

Lovely stuff! we are using a 182 plate for mine but sending it off to cg motorsport to have it uprated, maybe give them a shout for prices will save you some time further down the line dude.

Great minds an all that. Spoke with them this morning I am sending them the parts so they can measure up, confirm its the same then sending something back to suit

 

[JohnRogers]

Great minds an all that. Spoke with them this morning I am sending them the parts so they can measure up, confirm its the same then sending something back to suit

Sweeeet, we need a victory burnout once its all put together

 

[Adey.]

Still looks like a pile of scrap currently. We are past 2 weeks wait for the cambelt and oil filter delivery. Got some other bits turning up next week though, I want to have this back in the car and fully mounted in the next 2 weeks. Id be happy with that then I can move to all the extras like the exhaust, intake, cooling and rad and hopefully the wiring.

 

[Adey.]

Thought id crack on what I thought would be a daunting task but really wasn't. Re-looming everything to suit the new sensor positions, being a relatively new loom it was very easy with no nasty surprises. Most things were very close in position from the d4ft to the F4rt bar a few little bits, plenty of wiring in there to reposition everything that was needed bar the starter motor and solenoid. On the Twingo its on the front of the engine on the f4rt its on the back. As I had the Laguna loom here I removed that section and used it to replace the the Twingo item, this also gave more some heat shielding too. I may have to still extend the wiring for the pre throttle map and air temp sensor but I will do that one the pipe work is in place so I get it right. It looks a mess but everything is in place now, just need to get some insulation tape to wrap it back up and add all the conduit back on but its all there

 

[Adey.]

Cracked on with the belts today. Was a bit of a pain doing the bottom pulley up with an engine loose on the floor and ended up leaning it against the work bench and putting a scaffold pole on the bar to get my 95 degree tightening. All went well though and everything seems to line up nicely when checking. Covers back on and one more thing ticked off the list. Also started on the brakes by removing the 20mm Twingo MC and replacing it with a Peugeot 23mm MC, this moves the pipes to the other side for some more clearance and acts as an upgrade so I can hopefully run Brembo's and rear disks in the future. Also note the little Renault part I was hunting which gives me a nice factory take off for a remote reservoir.

Clutch was also paid for today after a measure up of the old one so that should hopefully be here by the weekend

Big thanks to Adam from Perraghan Racing for the lend of the tools

 

[Adey.]

how come you have went with the GT drive shafts will they be able to take the power or is it just for a mock up good progress tho, loving it

only just got round to getting pics but gt shafts next to the 172 shafts I have here. GT one have the twisted spline ends. Not worried about them tbh.

 

[Adey.]

Finished up the brake lines this eve, I HATE working with copper lines but they will do the job. Had to borrow the kit, must be 15 years since I've had to touch a flaring tool as I usually get someone else to do a neater job of running lines in for me. Slipped on some heat sleeving to maybe help keep things cooler. I will add more to the master cylinder itself once I finish up the reservoir side of things and i have the OEM heatshield to go back over the top. Unlike the Clio's the Twingo's downpipe runs in a very similar place to where the new one will need to go so has a nice factory heatshield to cover everything.

 

[Adey.]

A good friend, well 2 sorted me out on a new fuel pump today and an Oil cooler for the Twingo.

I was gifted 3 spare pumps from his workshop .Checked them over and part numbers to get flow rates. 1st was a denso r35 gtr pump 145lph, 2nd a unisia jecs a42h24 which comes in at 190lph and 3rd a walbro GSS342 (255lph). All pretty much the same fitment. I tested the walbro and it jumped with 12v on so I decided to use that one. It didn't have a filter sock though so a quick call to @jezer101 who dropped one of his spare pumps off so I could steal the sock off that 👍🏻. It needed a little fettle but pretty easy to fit in the housing. Replaced one of the electrical connectors and refitted it all into the car. With a 12v supply added it fills a Jerry can pretty quickly so hopefully its a good one. That said it is overkill, I've only used it as I've got it, a 255lph pump is plenty for 500+bhp!

 

[VenomUK]

Enjoying this thread and can’t wait to see it finished

 

[Adey.]

Enjoying this thread and can’t wait to see it finished

Cheers probably a while off yet but if its out and rolling by the summer ill be happy

 

[Adey.]

Found some energy today so got the sump on, gearbox on and starter on and loomed up. Swung the crane out and got it back in the hole and loosely on its mounts. Next I'll get everything I can bolted up and see if it fits correctly, so shifter cables and driveshafts and ill look at the dogbone mount and downpipe. With swapping the MC I've been able to clear some more space back there but I will still probably have to make a new downpipe for it.

 

[Adey.]

The 2.75 inch miltek downpipe only f**king fits! has clearance and space to wrap it, getting it in and out is tight as a nuns chuff though.

One driveshaft in perfectly the other side has the support bearing in the wrong place. Not sure how to sort that yet.... Will do some investigation.

Shift cables on and it feels like its shifting perfectly 👌

Also the clio 172 hose setup looks perfect, I can mod it a little to suit what I need. I'll likely use a 172 rad as its the same height as a twingo item, the meg rad is taller.

All in all a good and bad day but still further along than I was 😁👍🏻

I might also see if I can get hold of an evol dogbone mount in swap for my powerflex item. Its made of steel so I can chop and weld it to make a mount that fits.

 

[Adey.]

I think I can use a clio 3/197 half shaft and I think I will need to shorten the out side part of the shaft to suit the narrower car.... anyone able to measure an inner shaft length from the edge of the block (gearbox mounting face) to the inside edge of the bearing please?

 

[Krarl]

@RuskiWeldShit

Also, what length is the MK3 1.6 shaft?

 

[Adey.]

@RuskiWeldShit

Also, what length is the MK3 1.6 shaft?

not sure, I though 197 purely for having the f4r block and I'm assuming same position support bearing. looking pictures the inner is definitely longer and will probably suit itll be the outer that causes the issue. I wonder if the 172 outer is shorter than what I have and I could maybe make a hybrid shaft... lots of measuring to be done 😁

 

[Adey.]

OK think its sussed just need to double check everything actually fits as its just an idea at the moment.

I need a longer inner shaft and shorter outer to keep the same overall length. The clio 3 inner defo looks longer. I measure that I have a 52mm longer inner and shorter outer.

The 172/182 outer shaft i have here looks nigh on 52mm shorter 😀

So just the inner to sort/source and that should be the right length. Its just making them mate up together which may be an issue....

 

[alistairolsen]

Loving the car and the approach! Look forward to more parts bin raiding for neat factory solutions!

 

[Adey.]

Loving the car and the approach! Look forward to more parts bin raiding for neat factory solutions!

Cheers 👍🏻 half the fun is figuring what can be made to fit, and renault are really good for having interchangeable parts. Also raiding the parts bin keeps the price really low and makes it a fun budget build 😀

 

[alistairolsen]

Oh absolutely, I've done it with vauxhall and VW in the past, it's always a nice feeling when you find the perfect part, or better still, combination of parts like yout suspected driveshaft situation.

Makes a refreshing change from throwing money at it, or resorting to a hack job!

 

[Adey.]

Engage super pikey mode, but in reality if it works........... take one rear dog mount and give it a slight curve to fit what you need. Tbh after doing it I cant actually see a problem with it. Only tweaked it over about 1.5inch.

Topped up the oil, connected the loom and ecu up and then.....a frustrating 20min where after connecting everything back up the starter wouldn't spin at all. Don't forget to fit the main earth lead (full on school boy error that one) Span over for a long while to make sure oil pressure was good. Then as the battery was getting low i bought over the VRS to give it some extra oomph.... No exhaust, no map (still on the efi parts 1.2 GT remap) and the bores full of oil where i got paranoid it would seize up after being sat around.

Im quite chuffed, I blame @Brigsy for getting his running and it made me jealous Still loads to do but the fact it starts and runs is a huge weight off my shoulders considering i kind of bought it blind

 

[Donny_Dog]

Make a thread on that saxo.

 

[Adey.]

thats the neighbours. not moved in 11 months

 

[Adey.]

So I slapped in some 172 hoses and piped it all to a crusty old 172 rad so I could see what would and wouldn't work. Starting to get tight in there now though. Ran it up for a good 30min but the temp wouldn't get above 86 degrees, would ge there then drop to high 70s and just cycle. I didn't want to rev it up for ages to get the fan to cut in as it sounds like the apocalypse. Anyone know what normal temp is on this engine?

Not much to see tbh. Now I need to get everything in nicely and on to some finishing work. Give me another month and we might be ready for a test drive 🤞🏻