Another question about AST coilovers

[drhowser]

change the spring rates to how you like them then!!! Its hardly fu**ing rocket science!!! if ur so great with suspension then u shud be able to get them how u like them. everyones ****OPINION*** at the end of the day.

the point is how they adjust, can you control the different areas seperately?
what i'm saying is that if the high bump or rebound value is too high, regardless of springs, you are more likely to enter a corner unsettled and have less grip.

i'm not having a go, about 8 years ago i was seriously looking at a set of ast, i went with kw because i had used them before and knew i liked them. i'm glad that i did to be honest.

i agree with fred, ast's reputation is very good! i just think they need to put some more r&d into the kit.

 

[Fred@BTM]

last set i drove were on warrens car, no idea which ones they were though

 

[Dan R]

the point is how they adjust, can you control the different areas seperately?
what i'm saying is that if the high bump or rebound value is too high, regardless of springs, you are more likely to enter a corner unsettled and have less grip.

i'm not having a go, about 8 years ago i was seriously looking at a set of ast, i went with kw because i had used them before and knew i liked them. i'm glad that i did to be honest.

i agree with fred, ast's reputation is very good! i just think they need to put some more r&d into the kit.

read my last post. The kit is due to change as of next year with the newer settings i had on mine just before i sold it and are designed to work with softer spring rates. i think youll find its ALOT better!

 

[Dan R]

last set i drove were on warrens car, no idea which ones they were though

completely different. have the softer springs too

 

[Tom@JMS]

a good thread discussion over then.

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

just buy a megane. mine walks all over the clio lol

I cant be assed with the hassle of changing cars, and I really like the clio at the moment.
And from my experience on track (which isnt a lot at the moment) the meganes, in standard form, didnt seem that much quicker.
The only thing that attracts me to the meganes is the easier tuning potential.

 

[Ollie82.]

So what differences do the KW's offer over the AST's in terms of basic car feel on a track?
Judging by the KW backers here, it makes me think that any cars with lesser equipment would be left for dead around a track. Is this the case then?

 

[Dan R]

I cant be assed with the hassle of changing cars, and I really like the clio at the moment.
And from my experience on track (which isnt a lot at the moment) the meganes, in standard form, didnt seem that much quicker.
The only thing that attracts me to the meganes is the easier tuning potential.

no quicker in a straightline but £300 remap and its completely different, u dont need to change from cup packs suspension as the chassis is significantly better than the clio, dampers are spot on for fast road use and has a much much better roll centre so none of that body roll u get from a clio, fat tyres so WAY more grip, turn in is better. cant lose really. Take mine out!!

 

[Dan R]

So what differences do the KW's offer over the AST's in terms of basic car feel on a track?
Judging by the KW backers here, it makes me think that any cars with lesser equipment would be left for dead around a track. Is this the case then?

drive 2 cars. u cant make a decision from what some bloke told u on here!!!

 

[drhowser]

read my last post. The kit is due to change as of next year with the newer settings i had on mine just before i sold it and are designed to work with softer spring rates. i think youll find its ALOT better!

i have read your last post, i am being serious when i ask how the adjustment works? i actually can't remember.

also by saying that the kit is due to change, surely that is saying that they accept that the current kit is wrong. are they still selling the old setup?

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

Take mine out!!

lol ok

What colour is your btw in case I see you near work?

(sorry for going OT )

 

[ForceIndia]

Have you driven the v2's Tom?

No I haven't mate, but I would like too. Your right about the valving aspect costing extra money, if you received one of the early sets that were not quite right, you are looking at more £age to get them right, when they should have just been that way in the first place.

If you're up brum way, welcome to have a shot.
Dan, the new kit maybe better, I can only and will only comment on the kit I've tried. And that was the kit sold to me by Curtis, after I explained my needs and useage. If he didn't get it right, what conclusions am I expected to draw?

 

[drhowser]

So what differences do the KW's offer over the AST's in terms of basic car feel on a track?
Judging by the KW backers here, it makes me think that any cars with lesser equipment would be left for dead around a track. Is this the case then?

from listening to people who have used the ast's (i haven't) the front is quite nervous with a tendancy to understeer.

but as said, it is all down to driving style and preferance. a lot of racers use an understeer biased setup.

 

[Dan R]

lol ok

What colour is your btw in case I see you near work?

(sorry for going OT )

its a trophy, nimbus grey

 

[Dan R]

If you're up brum way, welcome to have a shot.
Dan, the new kit maybe better, I can only and will only comment on the kit I've tried. And that was the kit sold to me by Curtis, after I explained my needs and useage. If he didn't get it right, what conclusions am I expected to draw?

fair enough mate. im not arguing with anyone. I dont even own a clio anymore.
if anyone orders a set ask curtis for new rebound damper settings and soft setup

 

[Ollie82.]

drive 2 cars. u cant make a decision from what some bloke told u on here!!!

This is what im getting at. I don't understand these sweeping statements declaring all else is shite compared to a certain brand.
If someone was sat on a pit wall timing two identical cars, one with KW's and one with AST's and they were worlds apart (obviously with identical drivers) then i'd say, ok you have a point.
But there are so many different variables.

From what i can tell, certain people are quick to point out faults with the machinery when its nothing to do with it.
If you are capable enough a driver then you'll drive the socks off whatever you have a be quicker than someone in relatively similar equipment.

Most important above all this rubbish debate though.....is, does it really matter in terms of the fun you are having?
Most of us on here don't race....we do track days.

 

[Ollie82.]

from listening to people who have used the ast's (i haven't) the front is quite nervous with a tendancy to understeer.

but as said, it is all down to driving style and preferance. a lot of racers use an understeer biased setup.

See thats a nice, to the point explanation about the differences.

I can't actually relate to either. I use FK's (cue lots of gasps and scowls from the elitists....yawn).

 

[Tom@JMS]

Most of us on here don't race....we do track days.

And some of us don't even do that well

but as said, it is all down to driving style and preferance. a lot of racers use an understeer biased setup.

Usually in the wet for consistency sake IIRC

 

[Tom@JMS]

Warren, are you attending any of the RS track days next season, it would be good to compare the setups, assuming you are running KWs?

 

[drhowser]

This is what im getting at. I don't understand these sweeping statements declaring all else is s**te compared to a certain brand.
If someone was sat on a pit wall timing two identical cars, one with KW's and one with AST's and they were worlds apart (obviously with identical drivers) then i'd say, ok you have a point.
But there are so many different variables.

From what i can tell, certain people are quick to point out faults with the machinery when its nothing to do with it.
If you are capable enough a driver then you'll drive the socks off whatever you have a be quicker than someone in relatively similar equipment.

Most important above all this rubbish debate though.....is, does it really matter in terms of the fun you are having?
Most of us on here don't race....we do track days.

it is worth bearing in mind that this debate (which has been going on for a long time, and not ast v kw specifically) has led to a new and aparently much improved ast set up. maybe it's not so rubbish?

i know what you mean though, it does get a bit heated at times.

 

[Ollie82.]

Maybe im a bit ignorant of the finer point of suspension. Infact, i KNOW i am, but i'll drive the socks off anything, no matter how well or poorly its set up.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Warrens KW's are very nice.Our AST have been completely rebuilt to a race spec and we have yet to try them,but were to dusty before.

 

[Fred@BTM]

Warren, are you attending any of the RS track days next season, it would be good to compare the setups, assuming you are running KWs?

yeah he will be with his test driver "the twig"

 

[drhowser]

Warren, are you attending any of the RS track days next season, it would be good to compare the setups, assuming you are running KWs?

if fred makes some time i will be, i'd say my set is probably the most directly comparable in terms of price. you're more than welcome to try it.

 

[ForceIndia]

Warren, are you attending any of the RS track days next season, it would be good to compare the setups, assuming you are running KWs?

I will be, if I still have a Clio! Mines setup to be a bit tail happy. Max stiff on the rear+whiteline arb, just off softest on the front. Same toe out as the trophy.

 

[ForceIndia]

Maybe im a bit ignorant of the finer point of suspension. Infact, i KNOW i am, but i'll drive the socks off anything, no matter how well or poorly its set up.

I don't think there would be a huge margin between most of the kits. As said, it's more about the feeling and balance you prefer.

 

[Fred@BTM]

just ave it!

 

[Ollie82.]

I don't think there would be a huge margin between most of the kits. As said, it's more about the feeling and balance you prefer.

I'd probably plump for a set of slicks and a mid range set of coilovers.
I like a pointy nose setup, so i'd probably not get along with AST's if they are naturally understeery.

 

[DanFreemanPhoto]

Arent the KWs quite a bit cheaper than the ASTs too?

 

[ForceIndia]

Arent the KWs quite a bit cheaper than the ASTs too?

Approx 1k to buy. If they're an option you're welcome to a drive of mine fella.

 

[riz]

completely different. have the softer springs too

LOL @ soft!!!

 

[d4ve86]

interesting thread, somewhat worried about chaning to AST's now from the LEDA's but hey if they dont work I guess the PSS10's will have to be ordered. Im not fussed about road driving as the car will be on a trailer, but will hopefully see some of you at RS Days next year and see how the KW's compare to AST's

i think tho it comes down to set up, ride height, camber, toe, corner weights if you take it that far on all 4 wheels, so shims in the rear etc to get all 4 wheels alligned for a proper set up

but mainly driver talent, KW's could be a good set up, so could AST's but put a proper dirver in a standard 182 trophy and im sure he would walk all over us lot!

 

[Ollie82.]

but mainly driver talent, KW's could be a good set up, so could AST's but put a proper dirver in a standard 182 trophy and im sure he would walk all over us lot!

Amen to that.

 

[drhowser]

interesting thread, somewhat worried about chaning to AST's now from the LEDA's but hey if they dont work I guess the PSS10's will have to be ordered. Im not fussed about road driving as the car will be on a trailer, but will hopefully see some of you at RS Days next year and see how the KW's compare to AST's

i think tho it comes down to set up, ride height, camber, toe, corner weights if you take it that far on all 4 wheels, so shims in the rear etc to get all 4 wheels alligned for a proper set up

but mainly driver talent, KW's could be a good set up, so could AST's but put a proper dirver in a standard 182 trophy and im sure he would walk all over us lot!

exactly right to be honest. i think for most of us it is just something else to play with.

 

[Tom@JMS]

I also would not be suprised if a large majority of people who buy these adjustable kits at any price point actually experiment with them? I see siezed adjustment parts - be it height or damping - all the time?

 

[drhowser]

I also would not be suprised if a large majority of people who buy these adjustable kits at any price point actually experiment with them? I see siezed adjustment parts - be it height or damping - all the time?

i can imagine!

i'm the opposite to be honest, i spent about three months randomly driving and playing with settings.

 

[Dan R]

LOL @ soft!!!

280 front isnt heavy!!!

 

[mbarnes]

wow. 4 pages lol. Cheers for the input guys. I am no great driver or anything. I wont run 20laps fully timed to see what setting is ideal for a specific track etc. I just want something that will do the job. I dont want to 'slam my ride'. I want something thats going to be able to be setup by pros and will be good on track. The idea of a proper rear coilover is very appealing but the other issues with ast are putting me off. I will try and get an answer about the comp spec kw stuff from them. Been speaking to kw uk so far but have been amazed at how unhelpful they are when someone has money waiting to be spent lol.

With the ast sportline 2 they have a 45mm shaft so are they presumably inverted dampers? Are the kws? Both have 2 way adj but the kw have seperate knobs at top and bottom of unit. Ast are in one knob.

My ideal would be kw v3 fronts and a proper rear coilover from kw if that exists.

 

[Dan R]

wow. 4 pages lol. Cheers for the input guys. I am no great driver or anything. I wont run 20laps fully timed to see what setting is ideal for a specific track etc. I just want something that will do the job. I dont want to 'slam my ride'. I want something thats going to be able to be setup by pros and will be good on track. The idea of a proper rear coilover is very appealing but the other issues with ast are putting me off. I will try and get an answer about the comp spec kw stuff from them. Been speaking to kw uk so far but have been amazed at how unhelpful they are when someone has money waiting to be spent lol.

With the ast sportline 2 they have a 45mm shaft so are they presumably inverted dampers? Are the kws? Both have 2 way adj but the kw have seperate knobs at top and bottom of unit. Ast are in one knob.

My ideal would be kw v3 fronts and a proper rear coilover from kw if that exists.

sounds like the same kind of phonecall my mate had when his kw v3 damper went bang on the front of his M Roadster and ripped all the front bumper off and they basically had no interest.

 

[mbarnes]

it went like this:

i have some questions about your clio cup competition suspension.

Ok sir.

Is the rear a coilover unit or a spring and damper.

Er. I dont know. It will probably like the normal car.

Well the cup race car has a rear coilover but the roadcar has a damper and spring.

Oh. I dont know then.

Well can you find out.

Er i could try.

Never heard back from them lol. Sat here with the money and they arent interested lol.