B14 Coilover fitting specifics

[Tom5]

Apologies if this has been covered. I've seen dribs and drabs of information on various threads, mostly owners ones.
Today i've been fitting my used set of B14 Bilstein Coilovers to my Clio 172 Ph2 with standard suspension and have a couple of questions regarding the installation. TLDR? See the blue bold/italics for questions

Rear Setup : Dampers
Mine came with no large washers for installation. Instead they came with some metal bush-type torus affair at the bottom of the thinner metal shaft up by the threads. Frustratingly I failed to take any photos so please see the area circled in red in this dodgy paint reconstruction diagram. It was like a deflated metal torus that would only seat down the shaft properly one way.

This differs from what i've seen on @incy-spider 's reply to @dann2707 's 182 thread where it was said that the rears should have a concave washer that sits on the foam under the blue plastic boot and then another flat washer just below the rubber mounts that sit in the bodywork, as seen in his photos re-hosted below

Is the oddly shaped metal bush/washer on my shock a later design, or should I still have the larger washers as seen on other threads?

Rear Setup : Spring Adjusters
I've installed mine at the top of the spring (Car side as opposed to beam side). Currently the car is sat a little higher than I would have liked. Is it ok to remove the adjuster from the threaded metal cup section to allow the car to sit another 5-8mm lower? I assume as long as i leave the threaded section in at the top, it should locate the spring correctly?

Front Setup : Strut/Top Mount component order
This is something that's been covered a few times in other threads but I wanted to double-check that i've understood them correctly. I ordered new top mounts from @Renault Wolverhampton which arrived next day. They looked like this.

Dismantling the strut on the car I was left with these parts.

They stack from right to left. Upper spring cup, strut bearing, rubber donut, old style spacer, 17mm thin nut (holds it all on). This is then poked through the suspension turret where the top mount and 21mm nut are bolted down on top. I used the flanged Renault locknut that I got new with my topmount kit.

Thus on the Bilstein's the step by step rebuild goes (Excuse the matching blue gloves):

Bilstein top spring cup

is covered by greased bearing with recess facing up

then the big rubber donut

the 'old style' spacer slips in

17mm thin nut clamps it all down before the entire lots it fed up through arches into the car.
The top mount is then sat on-top and the 21nut is tightened down whilst the shaft is held in place with a 7mm allen/hex driver.

 

[NorthloopCup]

The rear dampers look to be the older style setup mate. You'll be fine without the washers as the oe rear top mounts have a metal base to them anyway. They've obviously changed the design to get more support to spread the load.

Regards the rear height adjusters, just take them out completely if you want it to sit lower. You'll find that the rear springs just become a bit more audible as they will move around a bit, but mainly over bumps.

 

[imprezaworks]

Lol I was only thinking you would be the person to ask, which is very strange.

 

[Tom5]

@NorthloopCup Thanks for clearing that up. I did get a photo of the damper top but by the time I got it out of the car it was getting dark and raining quite heavily.

You can see the metal part just above the blue dust cover. The lower rubber mount slides down over the shaft which then goes up through the suspension turret.

 

[Cub.]

@NorthloopCup Thanks for clearing that up. I did get a photo of the damper top but by the time I got it out of the car it was getting dark and raining quite heavily.

You can see the metal part just above the blue dust cover. The lower rubber mount slides down over the shaft which then goes up through the suspension turret.

Given you bought these from me, you could have tagged me in and I'd have answered your questions.

They are the original b14 design, and the "metal part" you highlight was the pre-cursor to the washer set up you have highlighted in your early post.

If you were supposed to have the washer setup, it would have been in the box with everything else. Funnily enough.

 

[Tom5]

Oh and one quick question regarding ride heights. Is there a 'rule of thumb' or a guide as such to the front to rear height difference?
I know the car as standard had slight rake to the front wheels so i'm assuming this is essential to retaining the weight balance and thus the handling characteristics?

I removed the rear spring adjusters but left the threaded section in the rear to ensure the spring seated correctly. I then set the fronts so there was 95mm of thread showing from the bottom of the spring (not lock) ring to the end of the thread.
Measured from the arch lip directly above the centre of the wheel, to the floor I had : Front L/R 580/582mm & Rear L/R 576mm/580mm. This left me with a great looking (not overly low IMO) car with this 'stance'

But I did find at this ride height that the ride was extremely compromised. The car never felt that it was soaking up the small bumps, on a B road it felt like the car never 'rested' or stopped moving up and down, for want of a better description. It was always shifting and bumping about, which for a daily driver made the car tiring to drive.

Since then I have re-installed the rear spring adjusters and raised the car to : Front L/R 595/591mm & Rear L/R 589/590mm. This extra 10mm has really made a different and the car is noticeably more comfortable (probably as the helper springs aren't squashed quite as flat anymore) although I feel the car isn't as low as I would have liked (looking at photos the rear looks higher than my old car with its cup dampers/eibach sportline setup!).

Over the weekend I may experiment with winding the front down a touch before it goes for its alignment, but would like to know if there were any considerations regarding the front to rear rake.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Try and get about 10-12mm of rake mate. Set the right front coil over around 5-6mm higher than the left as well. Right hand drive remember so more weight on the right. Then set the left rear 1/2 to 1 turn of the adjuster higher than the right rear. It's all to do with corner weights and diagonal weights.

 

[Gus]

Looks really good, are you not getting scrubbing when going round corners quickly?
With your measurements : Front L/R 595/591mm & Rear L/R 589/590mm
My OCD is telling me to raise the front right 6-7 mm to compensate for the driver weight so it sits level when you are in the drivers seat.

 

[Cub.]

It looks too flat to me. I.e. Not enough rake.

Also, there is a balance between looks and peformance, and I'd always go with performance personally. I'd rather it was higher and handled better, than lower and looked "cooler".

They aren't designed to "slam" it flat. If you want the slammed look, buy a VW.

 

[Rawhide]

I'm watching this thread with interest. I bought a nearly new set of these coilovers that came of a track car. As such I just installed them and made no adjustments

Mine is measuring

Front r595 l585
Rear r594 l597

The setup is perfect for me. I live in the Cotswolds and have some great roads near me which I can really push the car and the damping is perfect. I had a trophy before and found that less controlled than my 182 and more harsh.

I have about 1.75 degree camber. Unsure of the toe setting but it was setup by a motorsport garage.

I'm considering raising the rear slightly as I read on here ideally 10mm of thread should be showing on the rear adjuster as recommended by Bilstein. Has anyone done this?

I don't care at all about looks. A slight raise might actually help with some clearance as my cat does hang a bit low.

 

[Cub.]

I'm watching this thread with interest. I bought a nearly new set of these coilovers that came of a track car. As such I just installed them and made no adjustments

Mine is measuring

Front r595 l585
Rear r594 l597

The setup is perfect for me. I live in the Cotswolds and have some great roads near me which I can really push the car and the damping is perfect. I had a trophy before and found that less controlled than my 182 and more harsh.

I have about 1.75 degree camber. Unsure of the toe setting but it was setup by a motorsport garage.

I'm considering raising the rear slightly as I read on here ideally 10mm of thread should be showing on the rear adjuster as recommended by Bilstein. Has anyone done this?

I don't care at all about looks. A slight raise might actually help with some clearance as my cat does hang a bit low.

I ran mine with more rake. You can see it in these photos;

 

[RS Charlie]

I was not going to ask on this thread but I cannot help myself.

Next year I may invest in a set of B14s with me currently running on stock suspension. In terms of coilovers I have tried the following:

KWv3s on a 944 Turbo - These were superb ; maybe a little more roll than expected but the car was superb at high speeds
Ledas on my RST - That car on the Nankang NS2Rs is bumpier than the Porsche (but not the bumpiest car I have been in) and maybe the Clio but in the bends it really does grip and hard ; I have however rebuilt the dampers and readjusted the rear camber (it was miles off when I bought it) which seem to have made a pleasant different with the NS2Rs really helping the chassis as they slowly scrubbed in.
Bilstein Group A coilovers with gravel dampers with tarmac springs up front and Group N B6 dampers at the back in a 205 GTi ; That was a little soft on the front (I wonder if it was underdamped) but that chassis was utterly superb. It could steer on the throttle and feel safe, not something said that often about 205s!

How would the Bilstein B14s compare to other Clio setups? So far I have been in my car, a Clio 172 running Spax springs and stock dampers (it seemed a little more wallowy than mine oddly enough :/) and the same car again with Cup dampers all round but on Eibach springs. While it seemed to grip very well it did seem to bounce on the road almost like a go cart, and I wonder if it was firmer than my RST TBH. Seeing the success I have had with the Bilstein B6s previously the B14s certainly appear to be a damper setup that interest me.

 

[NorthloopCup]

I was not going to ask on this thread but I cannot help myself.

Next year I may invest in a set of B14s with me currently running on stock suspension. In terms of coilovers I have tried the following:

KWv3s on a 944 Turbo - These were superb ; maybe a little more roll than expected but the car was superb at high speeds
Ledas on my RST - That car on the Nankang NS2Rs is bumpier than the Porsche (but not the bumpiest car I have been in) and maybe the Clio but in the bends it really does grip and hard ; I have however rebuilt the dampers and readjusted the rear camber (it was miles off when I bought it) which seem to have made a pleasant different with the NS2Rs really helping the chassis as they slowly scrubbed in.
Bilstein Group A coilovers with gravel dampers with tarmac springs up front and Group N B6 dampers at the back in a 205 GTi ; That was a little soft on the front (I wonder if it was underdamped) but that chassis was utterly superb. It could steer on the throttle and feel safe, not something said that often about 205s!

How would the Bilstein B14s compare to other Clio setups? So far I have been in my car, a Clio 172 running Spax springs and stock dampers (it seemed a little more wallowy than mine oddly enough :/) and the same car again with Cup dampers all round but on Eibach springs. While it seemed to grip very well it did seem to bounce on the road almost like a go cart, and I wonder if it was firmer than my RST TBH. Seeing the success I have had with the Bilstein B6s previously the B14s certainly appear to be a damper setup that interest me.

I've been in a clio fitted with kw v2's, b14's and Ast sportline 2's (5200's) and for an everyday driver the kw's or billies are the way forward.
It was/is my car that had the kw's and the Ast's and @Cub. 's car that had the b14's.

The kw's and b14's are fast road and occasional track use orientated, whereas my Ast's are focussed primarily on track. You can of course spec the Ast's in a softer spring rate though if you wanted.

I suppose it comes down to what you want from the car really, but for fast road and occasional track I'd personally choose kw's over the b14's. That's based on the fact that they're damping adjustable so it could be set to full soft for those days when you just can't be arsed! However, b14's are available at almost half the price of the v2's now, so it's also a consideration.