Bah - Still cutting out

[Chip-mk1]

Sorry, no. The STOP light comes on only when the car cuts out.

Could the problem be related to the cylinder head and cam fitment? Seals/gaskets perhaps? Still wouldn't explain why the car is fine when cold though, I guess.

Has it got hotter cams? If so its not unusual at all for that to mess up the idle if its still on a standard map.

If the gasket around the cam cover isnt sealing correctly it can wet the plugs ceramic insulator with oil and causing tracking down the outside which can cause spark issues but you normally notice that at midrange full load not at idle so I doubt its that.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Some have suggested taking the throttle body off and starting the car, which makes the engine idle at around 1700rpm.

Take the throttle body off and its going to idle at the rev limiter!

 

[Scutch]

Has it got hotter cams? If so its not unusual at all for that to mess up the idle if its still on a standard map.

If the gasket around the cam cover isnt sealing correctly it can wet the plugs ceramic insulator with oil and causing tracking down the outside which can cause spark issues but you normally notice that at midrange full load not at idle so I doubt its that.

It's just got standard cams on mate. Mapped using an RSTuner for 98ron. Saying that, it was cutting out prior to uploading the recent map so it's definitely got nothing to do with the calibration map.

 

[Scutch]

Take the throttle body off and its going to idle at the rev limiter!

LOL. So that won't help at all then?

 

[Chip-mk1]

I think you need to stop trying to think up weird and wonderful causes then mate and just change the intake temp sensor etc and make sure the throttle body has no play in it.

Just get back to basics.

 

[Dan519]

Had a cup do similar to this. Changed the throttle body and it fixed it. Oddly it never thrwe up any fault codes and no amount of cleaning the TB made the slightest difference. It was worst for happening when manouvering to park etc on full lock

 

[Scutch]

I think you need to stop trying to think up weird and wonderful causes then mate and just change the intake temp sensor etc and make sure the throttle body has no play in it.

Just get back to basics.

Yeah you're right. It's just odd that the car was absolutely perfect prior to it having the cylinder head, belts and tappets done. That's what's leading me to think it's something connected.

 

[Scutch]

Had a cup do similar to this. Changed the throttle body and it fixed it. Oddly it never thrwe up any fault codes and no amount of cleaning the TB made the slightest difference. It was worst for happening when manouvering to park etc on full lock

Is there any way to check it will need a new throttle body without actually buying one? Just so I know? Or is it all trial and error?

 

[Chip-mk1]

No one local with a car you can try swapping bits off?

 

[Scutch]

No one local with a car you can try swapping bits off?

Sadly not buddy. I'm going to try and source one in the For Sale ads. I've PMd Nick regarding his breaking 182 so that's maybe a goer. I only need the throttle body to test and then I can rule it out if needbe and sell on, hopefully.

 

[Dan519]

Is there any way to check it will need a new throttle body without actually buying one? Just so I know? Or is it all trial and error?

there's a degree of trial and error. I keep spares in for exactly this as they're pretty crap really

 

[Nashy]

You can try mine if you want scutch?

 

[Chip-mk1]

You can try mine if you want scutch?

Top bit of CS'ing there

 

[Scutch]

I've asked Nick if he could send me his throttle body off his breaking car. I will happily pay £25 to test this item and then send it back should it either work or fail. If that's a no go, if anyone else is willing to help out in this way and make £25, please shout up.

 

[Chip-mk1]

see above, lol

 

[Rob]

Re: your last point, it's because there's such a multitude of causes. It's not that there's no resolution, it's that there's many.

Given that the car has come back like this after work, I'd go for a sensor damaged/has given up the ghost, so keep plugging away. Or get it plugged into a renault Clip.

 

[Nashy]

see above, lol

Haha!!

 

[Tunst]

If needs be you can both fetch the cars round to mine and il swap them over? or I guess me and Nash can come to you Neil

 

[Scutch]

When is best to do this? Tonight? Meet in Whitehaven at train station or something? Doesn't matter what time it is as it's quite light late on anyway. Only takes a few minutes to take the TB off too. I'm not sure it has anything to do with it, but worth a shot. I'm guessing it's a sensor as it doesn't do it when it's cold. The TB would cause this problem at all temperatures, surely?

 

[Nashy]

Earliest I can do is Thursday as im on back shift today/Wednesday if that's ok with you? Any chance you could come through here as I have the little one Thursday while the wench is @ work anytime after 4:30 is good with me. If not I can do Friday and saturday it's up to you mate.

 

[Scutch]

Cool will try and sort Thursday out. In the mean time I'll keep fiddling away

Tonight is reset battery.

This won't affect my map or ECU will it? Will I need to remap using the RSTuner again or is that set into the ECU even after reset?

 

[Tunst]

Id have thought it would be at all temperatures too.. Might be worth swapping a few sensors off Nashys too?

I can bring my scanner too see if tht brings up anything...

 

[Nashy]

No worries you have pm.

 

[Scutch]

Id have thought it would be at all temperatures too.. Might be worth swapping a few sensors off Nashys too?

I can bring my scanner too see if tht brings up anything...

Most of the sensors are on a loom so that might be a bit of a pain in the arus. Still, could do. As a heads up, Nick is also sending me a TB in the post if he finds it in his shed so could well have that by Wednesday. If it fixes the problem, great, if not, then the sensors thing is a good shout, Tunst. Will be up for that, but like I say, sounds a bit fiddly?

 

[Tunst]

All the sensors just plug in, so it should be just as simple as unplugging, removing and fitting another.. Does it do it everytime or can it be tempromental?

 

[Scutch]

I've just taken it out to the garage to let them know it's still cutting out. Again, started up fine, temperature gauge showing cold and no cutting out at all, idling fine. Approach junctions, still cold, idles about 1k even when dipping the clutch. Engine starts to warm up, gauge rises. I get to junctions or slow down and the revs dip under 1k. Still, this triggers the throttle to blip it back up again. Eventually, temps are just under half on the gauge, junctions and stops from speed with the clutch de-pressed result in engine cut out. I even did a little test. Pulled in to a layby - which the car cut out in. I started it back up again, no probs, idling at 1k. Moved forward slightly and dipped the clutch, it didn't cut out. I then moved forward increasing revs to 2k and dipped clutch to brake. Engine cut out. F*ck you car.

Anyway, tootled on to the garage, let my mate know it was still doing it which surprised him, and told him I'd be getting a throttle body and coil pack to test this week. He said it could well be the coil pack. I then told him that when I did my live data reading on the RS Tuner, the rear lambda sensor graph indicator was flatlining all the way along until it cut out, at which point it went nuts and the graph line shot up. He said the lambda should not be flatlining as it's plugged in and should indicate exactly what the front lambda is showing, irrespective of whether it's needed or if the ECU reads from it or not. So that would indicate my rear lambda is faulty. Maybe this could be the problem?

Too many maybes, IMO. I'll test them all anyway.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Cool will try and sort Thursday out. In the mean time I'll keep fiddling away

Tonight is reset battery.

This won't affect my map or ECU will it? Will I need to remap using the RSTuner again or is that set into the ECU even after reset?

No the RS Tuner writes the map into a part of the memory that isnt effected by a loss of power.
Think of it as like being written to your harddrive instead of into RAM in PC terms.

 

[Ricardos]

You can test the lambda sensor off the car with a multimeter and blow torch, heat up the sensor and take a voltage reading. I can't remember what voltage but when it gets hot the voltage rises fairly quick. Maybe the garage could test it?

 

[Tunst]

You can test the lambda sensor off the car with a multimeter and blow torch, heat up the sensor and take a voltage reading. I can't remember what voltage but when it gets hot the voltage rises fairly quick. Maybe the garage could test it?

Il be able to test the Lambda voltage while its on the car, il add that to the list :sleepy:

 

[Wizbit]

I had similar problems to those described in the OP - except the smell of petrol! Also virtually identical symptoms described in Scutch's latest post, above.

It was sorted by replacing the inlet solenoid valve. Not sure if that is the same as the air intake temperature sensor!

Anyway, if it's of any use, the part number listed on the receipt is: R8200702986 (016211/Governer) - £31.51

 

[Scutch]

I had similar problems to those described in the OP - except the smell of petrol! Also virtually identical symptoms described in Scutch's latest post, above.

It was sorted by replacing the inlet solenoid valve. Not sure if that is the same as the air intake temperature sensor!

Anyway, if it's of any use, the part number listed on the receipt is: R8200702986 (016211/Governer) - £31.51

That's interesting mate, as I'd never even heard of that solenoid valve prior to your previous post and now. Where the hell does that go?!

 

[Scutch]

You can test the lambda sensor off the car with a multimeter and blow torch, heat up the sensor and take a voltage reading. I can't remember what voltage but when it gets hot the voltage rises fairly quick. Maybe the garage could test it?

When I did the live data reading on both lambda's, the front gave a low voltage reading until I revved the car, thus increasing it's reading before settling again. The rear, however, was a set voltage figure of around 492 and no matter how hard I revved the car, it did not change one iota. I'd have thought both sensors would have given identical readouts, no? The rear lambda, like I said, didn't even flicker.

Here's the graph readout again:

This is prior to cut out. You can see the rear lambda is doing f*ck all.

However, when the car cuts out:

Erm, what's it doing now? I think I've got a duff lambda, which may or may not be causing me problems.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Didnt you say the rear one wasnt in the exhaust anymore? if so I would expect its value to be pretty consistant if its stuck in fresh air.

 

[Scutch]

Didnt you say the rear one wasnt in the exhaust anymore? if so I would expect its value to be pretty consistant if its stuck in fresh air.

The mechanic said it's connected mate. Apparently both are.

With what you said in mind though, surely if it was disconnected and a consistent and set value, it wouldn't shoot up when the car stalls?

Like you also said, it could well be a red herring, in truth.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Normally when you decat, you leave it connected electrically but leave it out of the exhuast, so it reads fully lean all the time.

 

[Rob]

Get under the car and totally unplug the second lambda too, it doesn't need to be there I don't think? (I'm sure one of the mech's can confirm) Never had one plugged in on mine and it was fine.

Or even swap them over, see what the results are?

 

[Scutch]

Yeah will do Rob. Chip, you may be right, the mechanic saying it's connected might mean it's connected to the ECU but not the decat pipe. Will check later.

Cheers guys.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Get under the car and totally unplug the second lambda too, it doesn't need to be there I don't think? (I'm sure one of the mech's can confirm) Never had one plugged in on mine and it was fine.

Or even swap them over, see what the results are?

Will put the management light on if its not connected, but shouldnt actually effect anything with how the car drives.

 

[Scutch]

Right. Here is the image of the o2 sensors (lambda sensors) in operation with the car running, live data:

See how the rear sensor is doing absolutely nothing. I checked and it's both connected to the ECU via the loom and plugged into the decat.

Other image showing data grid. Bear in mind the front sensor was fluctuating up and down constantly, I merely snapped this shot at random. The rear didn't budge once:

Interestingly, I then got under the car and disconnected the rear sensor. I didn't remove the lambda from the decat, but instead just unplugged the cable connector from it's housing to the main loom. I figured this would do the same job as just removing the lambda from the decat?

Anyway, I then checked the RSTuner diagnostics again and got this error:

(Rear o2 heater fault on activation if you can't view the image) It had picked up that the rear sensor wasn't activated. Even more interesting/alarming was that the front sensor didn't work with the back sensor disconnected. I just got two flatlines when going to live data view. Surely the front sensor should still work if the back one is unplugged?!

Could make this into a novel, but I will get to the bottom of this problem!

 

[Ricardos]

See this is what I was saying about the rear sensor, mine is fitted in the decat. When the car was cold it was spot on, as soon as it was on temp it started running badly. Apparently 182s are quite sensitive regarding anything emission related, a friend of mine worked for Renault. That damn EML light can come on sooo easily, when the car comes up to temp it goes into open loop IIRC so if that sensor isn't picking anything up or it's strapped outside any exhaust gases then understandably it'll show signs of running lean.

Seems to me it's flat lined when it's cold then goes mental when it's supposed to kick in....... Of course I might be wrong