Bike Throttle bodies

[Waitey]

Right how easy would it be to get an engine running using these. At the moment my 4age engine has no ecu since its on carb's.

At the moment at work there a few sets of bike throttle bodies lying around off varying bikes. I could have an inlet manifold knocked up for next to nothing.

The main stumbling block is how to control them. A friend on scotland used the Megasquirt ECU on MX5 with bike throttle bodies. Could i do this.

How hard is setting them up. I can make a loom etc its just the idea on tweaking a map that worries me.

 

[edde]

Mega squitrt is great value but using the standard OE bike ECU should be fine.

Mapping it though you need someone who knows what there doing.

 

[Waitey]

Thing is how would it run. Surely if they are off a bike which is 1200cc then using them on a 1600cc car won't be great.

 

[stan*]

you can buy a proper full ECU for £450.

a cheaper option would be bike carbs and a proper ign only ecu.

 

[stan*]

dont use the bike ecu lol

 

[Waitey]

Stan i'm just not a fan of carbs. I want an injection side of things again.

 

[BenR]

stick them on, just dont use a POS megasquirt.

 

[stan*]

furry muff...im the same tbh

check out http://kms.vankronenburg.nl/

i can supply the the full ecu for around £450. It has adaptive mapping function, which is handy.

 

[Waitey]

What sensors will in need on my engine. Can i use a dizzy mounted sensor or would i need one on the crank?

 

[BenR]

use a front pulley trigger system from RAW, then you can use the rest of your sensors from your engine and the TPS from the bike bodies. Ditch the dizzy and run a coilpack for £30, wire and map it up.......job done.

 

[stan*]

u can use dizzy....but no need.

just crank sensor, TPS (which the bike bodies will have), coolant sensor, and Wideband lambda to run the adaptive module if u buy that. (not need for "normal" mapping, as the tuner will have one).

 

[stan*]

doh lol

 

[Waitey]

RAW do the front pully trigger? I knew someone did but i didn't think it was them.

So if i get the ECU stan is talking about i should be able to have it all done for around £700ish. Which is lees than the cam pakage is from RAW.

 

[stan*]

depends how much you do yourself, and how much mapping costs you, but aye around that.

I can recomend a very good tuner in Carlisle to do the mapping for you. He's pretty cheap, and worth the short trip for you. he's the only other person i would let loose on one of my engines/cars.

 

[BenR]

RAW do it yes, £120 odd quid inc sensor on exchange basis (they need your front pulley back) IIRC.

And depending on what price you can get the manifold made up for, the labour for installation and mapping.................I doubt it'll all come out to £700 unless you do it all yourself.

 

[Waitey]

I can do anything bar mapping my self.

 

[stan*]

Thats the spirit!

like i say, i can give you the number of a top bloke for that.

 

[Waitey]

Hmm now i'm torn. Do i:

Get RAW cams and pullies for £460 then get the 45's set up with them with a 7500rpm rev limit.

Or do i go all DIY and run throttle bodies and 7500rpm. Or maybe 8000rpm if the bottom end looks in good nick.

 

[BenR]

personally, if it were me...........

I would get some cams and pullies, rev to 8000 minimum (4age's can take it, my mate sits at 9000rpm on his stock engine all day long) and setup the carbs and ignition properly. If you move to injection it might run a tad nicer and smoother in some areas, but once at full throttle you'll just not have enough power.

 

[stan*]

do both

 

[Waitey]

Could i still use the dizzy ben. Or something like lumention (sp)?

What kind of rpm range should mine be at the moment. I never take it above 6k since it feels like there is no power there.

As for 8000rpm my guage only goes to 7000 lol

 

[BenR]

Dont know what ignition system you are running at the moment, can it be adapted or do you actually need a new mappable system?

Lumenition..........nah, there are better and cheaper about.

RPM range.....like you say, if you run out of puff there is no point.....but the engines are capable of high rpm. As for your gauge issues............a shift light will do the trick.

 

[Waitey]

Its just running a dizzy and a coil at the moment.

 

[BenR]

God i hate this forum at the moment....i type in a reply and it freezes!

As i was saying, you should be able to get someone to modify the dizzy's advance curve, but it will run smoother and with more torque if you have a mappable ignition system.

 

[stan*]

why not get cams and a mappable ign set-up....

then when the time is right, fit bike CARBS. although i prefer full electronics, bike carbs are pretty usable, with very good results. more so than your current carbs, as the Jap precision is damn good. for example, on the bikes, they hardly ever need balancing or setup ertc.

just a thought anyway,

 

[Waitey]

Right i'll start small. Mappable ignition and have the carbs re set up.

Any good mappalbe ign systems availble cheaply.

 

[stan*]

checkout the KMS site £220 ish i think, can check 2moro.

 

[Fred@BTM]

not a fan of KMS after they ripped off all of Jenvey's stuff!

 

[BenR]

they sure did! lol

I wouldnt bother swapping from one type or carb to another type of carb, i just dont see a point.

However you can clean up the 45's and sell them for a pretty penny since they are the most rare at the moment having only just come back into production with quality suffering. So people are willing to pay for them. This should give you the funds to swap to bike bodies.........but if the manifold isnt designed well, it'll be pointless aswell since you'll already have a nice cast DCOE manifold no doubt.

 

[Waitey]

Yeah the maifold has being matched to the ports nicely.

What ignition management do you suggest ben?

 

[Fred@BTM]

i'll await Ben to say VEMS

 

[Waitey]

LOL 2:1 odds here too

He might suprise us though

 

[BenR]

vems is full management, although it will run it and my mate does make 4age kits and its a great budget solution as datalogging, full wideband, loom yadda yadda snore snore........is included for £470.

I'm not pushing it though, there is plenty of stuff out there.....its just cheaper than the rest with more on it.

 

[Waitey]

Why would i need a wideband o2 sensor if i was only using carbs.

 

[BenR]

which is why i said that its full management, not just ignition control.

Mind you, you still want to know AFR even with carbs.

 

[stan*]

not a fan of KMS after they ripped off all of Jenvey's stuff!

That as maybe, but how does that effect their electronic offerings?

lol and why would that be a basis to offend you as a customer??!

 

[Fred@BTM]

its just not cricket dear chap

stealing their design and having them knocked up in poland on the cheap, i'd pay over the odds knowing that they were designed, engineered and manufactured in the UK, but thats just me!

 

[stan*]

Jenvey arent much more anyway....i use them over KMS. Its only their electronics I use.

Besides, dont you use Iapel pistons?

 

[Fred@BTM]

Iapel are rebranded aren't they?

 

[stan*]

They are made in Argentina using ex-Mahle tooling, if thats what u mean.